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-   -   What makes a great chef? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/1151479-what-makes-great-chef.html)

Shangri-La Nov 22, 2010 1:04 pm

What makes a great chef?
 
What do you think makes a great chef? From the 3-star Michelin chefs such as Thomas Keller and Pierre Gagnaire to equally talented chefs such as Mario Batali and Dean Fearing, what exactly is "it" that makes them the take such ingredients and turn them into such extraordinary dishes on a regular basis in successful, well-run restaurants?

Is it the training and experience they get in restaurants? Gordon Ramsay and Marco Pierre White have produced a lot of talented chefs out of their kitchens who have gone on to have terrific success in their own light.

Do you think the creativity, palate, technique, and management can be identify early on?

reigndrop Nov 23, 2010 12:42 pm

Personally, I think what makes a great chef is their training and their inspiration. Tons of people have worked in TK's kitchen, Adria's kitchen, et cetera, but what makes you great after that training? It's your inspiration.

Notice Achtaz's drive, Anduriz's drive, Redzeppi... it's their training followed by their inspiration and drive that make them great.

Eastbay1K Nov 23, 2010 3:53 pm

Isn't it obvious?

jbcarioca Nov 23, 2010 4:21 pm

If anybody can seriously compare Keller and Gagnaire to promoters without talent like Batali and Fearing then the 'it' does not matter. the difference is in the ability to make ingredients into masterpieces that are delectable. People like Batali know little about good food and a great deal about self-promotion. I do not denigrate their skills, but they are not about excellence in cuisine.

Experiencing a truly talented chef in action produces a sublime experience that has less to do with an ability to impress than an ability to express.

Even naming profane crass people like Ramsay proves the point. There are some who use promotion as a substitute for talent. Ramsay has never been a great chef though he has had several in his kitchens.

There are those such as Michel Troisgros, Thomas Keller, Alice Waters, Stephane Raimbault who create for the client Nirvana. There are others who make a media-driven statement that plays well on TV. One rarely can eat those TV dinners of Batali and his ilk.

Traveltalker Nov 23, 2010 5:34 pm

Hard to identify just one thing. But creative ideas help as does a good palate.

Fornebufox Nov 23, 2010 6:48 pm

Training, technique, palate, sensory (taste) memory, passion, imagination, drive, obsessiveness, stamina, managerial skills....
(not necessarily in that order)

mjm Nov 23, 2010 7:31 pm

All good points but for me what separates the greats from the merely mortal is something undefined and special similar to what separates a musician from what I am capable of doing. I could learn the notes and play them to perfection, but a true musician will make them into music.

And darned if it isn't one of life's great joys to try and try and try to find the next great chef. :)

techgirl Nov 23, 2010 9:26 pm


Originally Posted by jbcarioca (Post 15259456)
If anybody can seriously compare Keller and Gagnaire to promoters without talent like Batali and Fearing then the 'it' does not matter. the difference is in the ability to make ingredients into masterpieces that are delectable.

Couldn't agree more. Keller is a genius. Fearing is overrated but has managed to create a couple signature dishes over the last two decades have somehow evolved into a reputation (tortilla soup, anyone?). And Batali is just a great marketer.

obscure2k Nov 24, 2010 9:01 pm

Passion

Rejuvenated Nov 24, 2010 11:02 pm

I would like to add endless hardwork and desire into the traits as well.

jbcarioca Nov 25, 2010 6:16 am


Originally Posted by Rejuvenated (Post 15277713)
I would like to add endless hardwork and desire into the traits as well.

I am well acquainted with one renowned chef. He lives near me. He's up in markets at 5-6 AM. He organizes and designs based on what he finds that day. He's always there cooking, managing, schmoozing until 2 AM. It is not clear to me that he sleeps.

Years ago I knew one of the Meilleur Cuisinier de France. He lived just like the other one I know now.

Passion and desire are essential components. Comprehensive education and training are another requirement. After it all they must work constantly. These people are outliers!

The two I know commenced their apprenticeships when they were not yet teenagers. Both, oddly, spent a long time with the same old master in Lyon. Today their children are chefs too, but they all went to the CIA in New York.

I still do not understand how the CIA has become today what Paul Bocuse was 35 years ago. Obviously formal training is now more than apprenticeship.

mecabq Nov 26, 2010 11:34 am


Originally Posted by Fornebufox (Post 15261087)
Training, technique, palate, sensory (taste) memory, passion, imagination, drive, obsessiveness, stamina, managerial skills....
(not necessarily in that order)

Great list. And I would add "marketing skills." I.e., it's like any other business, especially in a creative industry.

obscure2k Nov 27, 2010 7:29 pm

Suzanne Goin is a great chef with passion and vision. We love all of her Los Angeles restaurants for the way she translates her vision and passion to her cooking.
Here is a recent WSJ article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...573318752.html

N830MH Nov 30, 2010 7:57 pm


Originally Posted by obscure2k (Post 15310957)
Suzanne Goin is a great chef with passion and vision. We love all of her Los Angeles restaurants for the way she translates her vision and passion to her cooking.
Here is a recent WSJ article:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...573318752.html

I haven't watched the cooking show for a long time. I was extremely busy that I reading the posts on aviation-related forums. Because I do not have enough time to watched the cooking show for quite long time. You probably knows that I loves to watched the cooking shows on the TV for most the times.

Shangri-La Dec 1, 2010 11:45 am


Originally Posted by jbcarioca (Post 15259456)
If anybody can seriously compare Keller and Gagnaire to promoters without talent like Batali and Fearing then the 'it' does not matter. the difference is in the ability to make ingredients into masterpieces that are delectable. People like Batali know little about good food and a great deal about self-promotion. I do not denigrate their skills, but they are not about excellence in cuisine.

Experiencing a truly talented chef in action produces a sublime experience that has less to do with an ability to impress than an ability to express.

Even naming profane crass people like Ramsay proves the point. There are some who use promotion as a substitute for talent. Ramsay has never been a great chef though he has had several in his kitchens.

There are those such as Michel Troisgros, Thomas Keller, Alice Waters, Stephane Raimbault who create for the client Nirvana. There are others who make a media-driven statement that plays well on TV. One rarely can eat those TV dinners of Batali and his ilk.

Interesting views.

flyer81 Dec 1, 2010 12:43 pm

Creativity and imagination
 
I think that creativity makes a great chef - being able to use all the knowledge they get in cooking schools and turn it into something magical with the help of their imagination.

gj83 Dec 1, 2010 12:51 pm

I think a lot of it is also just knowing your audience. Would Paula Deen be as successful if she opened the same restaurant in San Francisco? Maybe, but I doubt it. I'm not sure if she is a Chef or just a cook, but she is one of my favorites.

c1ue1ess88 Dec 25, 2010 6:43 am


Originally Posted by obscure2k (Post 15276570)
Passion

+1

satman40 Dec 25, 2010 8:26 am

Most Artist think they are the best, and in theri own circle they are...

Money is just about keeping score, at the end of the day we all work to make a profit, that is what keeps us going...

No profit, no door to open...no gas for oven...

Ancient Chinese cook fact...

uaflr Jan 3, 2011 7:36 pm

Ability to create great taste & presentation

CMK10 Jan 5, 2011 3:46 pm

I have a plus-sized friend and chef who once told me "Never trust a skinny chef" and that motto has served me quite well so far :D

ILuvParis Jan 8, 2011 11:51 pm


Originally Posted by Eastbay1K (Post 15259044)

And thank goodness!

magiciansampras Jan 11, 2011 7:41 am

Having a tv show.

new2japan Jan 15, 2011 8:32 am


What do you think makes a great chef? From the 3-star Michelin chefs such as Thomas Keller and Pierre Gagnaire to equally talented chefs such as Mario Batali and Dean Fearing, what exactly is "it" that makes them the take such ingredients and turn them into such extraordinary dishes on a regular basis in successful, well-run restaurants?
It greatly depends on what you mean by chef. I've been forced to go to one of Emerill's restaurants. I'm pretty sure he wasn't in the kitchen. I didn't hear any stupid bams. Plenty of the big chefs have more than one restaurant and they really are more business managers than chefs.

It's rather impossible to answer your question without more definition around what you mean by great chef. Best chef on the line? Best business manager? Best menu maker?

julietrevino Jan 16, 2011 8:07 pm

Being a great chef is a lot about management. You have to be a great cook, great leader, great manager all at the same time. When chefs go to the top of their professional success, a lot of them rarely work the line. They mainly become overseers, but with a firm hand on the menu.

TMOliver Jan 19, 2011 10:43 am


Originally Posted by Fornebufox (Post 15261087)
Training, technique, palate, sensory (taste) memory, passion, imagination, drive, obsessiveness, stamina, managerial skills....
(not necessarily in that order)

Not a bad list of qualities, but I would add...

A commitment to maximizing the dining pleasure and feeling of perceived value of the patrons (well, at least the relatively discerning diners among them).


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