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-   -   The cognac thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/diningbuzz/1150680-cognac-thread.html)

RCyyz Nov 21, 2010 9:49 pm

Remy XO is my drink of choice. :) ^

Martell XO is good too.

I've never had the guts to shell out and try Louis XIII. One of these years I will but it's an awful lot to spend on something as temporary as a drink.

number_6 Nov 21, 2010 11:26 pm


Originally Posted by gfunkdave (Post 15232852)
...I've always seen cognac drunk from a snifter, which you cup in your hands to warm it slightly.

Cheap cognac is best drunk from a spherical snifter, warmed over an open flame -- that burns off the aromatics, which are not so pleasant in cheap cognac.

Expensive cognac is best drunk from a tulip-shaped glass (the same as used for fine scotch). Gentle warming from body heat to release the fine aromatics (which you don't want to lose as it is what makes that cognac so expensive).

egon.olsen Nov 22, 2010 3:09 am

While visiting Armenia I discovered Ararat Nairi 20 Year Old. I must say it's really exceptional. One of the best cognacs I've ever tried.

gfunkdave Nov 22, 2010 9:38 am


Originally Posted by egon.olsen (Post 15235386)
While visiting Armenia I discovered Ararat Nairi 20 Year Old. I must say it's really exceptional. One of the best cognacs I've ever tried.

Wouldn't that be Armenian brandy, not cognac? It wasn't made in Cognac, France.

egon.olsen Nov 22, 2010 10:17 am


Originally Posted by gfunkdave (Post 15238830)
Wouldn't that be Armenian brandy, not cognac? It wasn't made in Cognac, France.

Yep, you're absolutely right. It's quite common in Poland to call all brandys as cognacs :) the same with adidas. Bit strange but true...

Larrude Nov 30, 2010 11:52 am


Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri (Post 15228447)
i regret not trying louis xiii for $37.50/oz on seabourn...

but im not sure i would like cognac?

i only drink shiraz (grange ^), cabernet sauvignon, malbec. no white wine, and i have only enjoyed champagne once, and found it drinkable one other time. and thats not including 1996 dom, which seems to be one of the best vintages. i could recognize the quality, but to me it was not really dry at all. i just cant stand any hint of fruit. or as it seems to me i guess.

if it may not be "fruity" im not sure whether to try "regular" cognac or only things like louis xiii in order to see if i would like it?

like with single malts, so far (went to a tasting) i only like macallan. (25 sherry oak ^)

Many times people who enjoy red wines and single malt scotch ( and I prefer the peatier malts such as Laphroaig, Talisker, Bowmore, Lagavullin) seem to enjoy armagnacs, which are a type of brandy. You may want to try one.

pepe C Nov 30, 2010 12:21 pm


Originally Posted by gfunkdave (Post 15227029)
I could be wrong in referring to it as "Napoleon"

A Napoleon is the same as a XO. Cognac only has three ages:
VS youngest blend is minimum 2 and a halve years old
VSOP youngest blend is minimum 4 and a halve years old
XO, Napoleon youngest blend is minimum 6 and a halve years old

That means that both the most expensive Remy Martin and the blandest cheap bottle of Cognac can be a XO or Napoleon. For the law there is no difference between a blend of 6 and a halve years old and a blend of 80 years old.

TMOliver Dec 3, 2010 5:41 pm


Originally Posted by egon.olsen (Post 15235386)
While visiting Armenia I discovered Ararat Nairi 20 Year Old. I must say it's really exceptional. One of the best cognacs I've ever tried.

I don't care ... Armenians put on the label. It was not, is not and will never be Cognac, one of the most sacred of titles, reserved for a brandy distilled within a defined geographic area, the Charente, from the mostly semi-undrinkable white wines of the area, aged to a modest requirement set by law.

"Conac" with a curly-cue over the "n" is not Cognac either, although Spanish Brandies ranges from the truly nasty to some of the world;'s most drinkable.

"Armagnac", from another part of France, the Southwest, has many adherents who find it equal or preferable to most Cognacs.

I mourn for the popular Cognac brands of my youth, which these days, at least in the US, especially Hennessy and Courvoisier, been doctored to meet the tastes of those segments of society which have adopted them. Thicker, heavier and more syrupy to my palate than half a century ago, they are just right for those quaint folk who mix theirs with Coke.

For everyday "Cognac", not that good Cognac can ever be "everyday", Hine remains trustworthy, clear, a defined aroma and not clogged with a heavy aftertaste. Most of the folks who are so enamored of Cognac these days would be unlikely to realize that you had sloshed a jigger of Christian Bros. in their snifters (or their damnable highball glasses to top off with Coca Cola). It's mostly affectation.

God does permit, for older gents, the occasional "Brandy & Soda", a decent Cognac or merited Spanish Brandy (Domeq's Fundador at the bottom, hopefully chosen from higher on the brandy tree, Carlo I used to be pretty good) in a heavy cut crystal "rocks" glass, no ice, but a squirt of chilled soda from the siphon. We brought back a new set of glasses from Prague last year, and the deeply incised facets give the brandy more colors than the church windows of Prague.

Baritone73 Dec 3, 2010 8:40 pm


Originally Posted by gfunkdave (Post 15238830)
Wouldn't that be Armenian brandy, not cognac? It wasn't made in Cognac, France.

To satisfy my own idle curiosity, I checked the bottle of Anush brandy that I have in the china cabinet. (It's on display by virtue of the bottle, which is crafted into the shape of a horse.) The label identifies it as "Armenian Brandy," which is proper. The Cyrillic letters on the back, however, identify it as "Armyanskii Konyak." Methinks this is a linguistic issue -- could the term "Cognac" be used to mean "brandy" in some languages?

Incidentally, the Armenian side of my heritage is growing ever more jealous at this line of conversation. When I lived in Western New York, I used to keep a bottle of Ararat 18 yr brandy in the house to get me through the harsh Buffalo winters. Now that I've moved to Virginia, where liquor stores are still operated by the state, I can't find it anymore.

number_6 Dec 3, 2010 11:21 pm


Originally Posted by TMOliver (Post 15376977)
....God does permit, for older gents, the occasional "Brandy & Soda", a decent Cognac or merited Spanish Brandy (Domeq's Fundador at the bottom, hopefully chosen from higher on the brandy tree, Carlo I used to be pretty good) in a heavy cut crystal "rocks" glass, no ice, but a squirt of chilled soda from the siphon. We brought back a new set of glasses from Prague last year, and the deeply incised facets give the brandy more colors than the church windows of Prague.

Back when IB had F I was exposed to some very fine Spanish brandies (which were served by IB in F but are no longer served as IB only has J service). It was a real eye opener, quite different from "real" cognac, but every bit as good. More sunny and fruity, yet with depth and finesse. Cardinal Mendoza was one of these exquisite brandies; thank you IB for exposing me to this taste sensation!

ralfp Dec 4, 2010 12:41 am


Originally Posted by TMOliver (Post 15376977)
I don't care ... Armenians put on the label. It was not, is not and will never be Cognac, one of the most sacred of titles, reserved for a brandy distilled within a defined geographic area, the Charente

It actually is legally Cognac. It's an odd exception to an an odd bit of protectionism.

Buy a Cognac distillery, move it a few km, operate it using the exact same people, methods, ingredients, etc. and, TA DA!, if you use the same noun to describe your product you are breaking the law. Of course you can always change the law to suit your protectionist needs (an example) .

Make absolute garbage in the right area and it can still (pardon the pun) the have same name (legally).

My personal view is that the really absurd protectionism is the ban on the use of terms like "type", "kind" , "style"; calling a brandy* made to Cognac-specs (minus the geography) "Cognac-style brandy" is illegal in many places. Comparing your product to similar, perhaps far inferior, products is illegal?

That's not protecting the integrety of the product; it's protecting the revenue of landowners from potentially superior (higher quality, lower cost, etc.) competitors (or, heaven forbid, UK-based slicers doing what Parma producers recommend; this one has me a bit confused.)

* why don't the Dutch go after those who usurp their term for burned wine? :D

\Needs some more burned wine.

egon.olsen Dec 5, 2010 3:04 pm


Originally Posted by Baritone73 (Post 15377775)
The Cyrillic letters on the back, however, identify it as "Armyanskii Konyak." Methinks this is a linguistic issue -- could the term "Cognac" be used to mean "brandy" in some languages?

Yes it could, and it actually is in most of of ex-communist countries. Cognac is widely used to describe all cognacs and brandy.

FMH1964 Dec 10, 2010 11:51 pm

My longstanding favorite Cognac has been Hine Triomphe (now $299 Cdn. in Ontario). It has an average age of 40 years in the blend. Hine Antique XO is around 20 -25 years old and is $176 in Ontario. The XO from Remy is $228, Hennessy $229, and Courvoisier $220 which are also around the 20 to 25 year range. Why the price difference? Advertising costs come to mind. I maintain that after Triomphe, diminishing returns set in rapidly. Hine used to produce Reserve Personnelle de la Famille which was around 60 years of age and they still produce vintage Early Landed Cognacs aged by Her Majesty's Customs. I've not tried the Early Landed Cognacs which supposedly have a different flavour profile from the blended Cognacs. Think of Vintage Armagnac v. blended Armagnac.

Two other Cognac houses to try are Albert de Montaubert and Kelt. Albert de Montaubert produces a 25 year old and 50 year old Cognac which have both won a lot of medals at the International Wine and Spirits Competition in the U.K. and Mundus Vini Competition in Berlin (e.g. Silver, Gold and Gold best in class). Kelt however does something that is unique. It ages its Cognacs at sea as was done in the 19th century. The barrels are only partially filled unlike barrels aged on land. What happens is that the spirit moves back and forth in the barrel and there is increased wood contact per volume of spirit which imparts a different flavour profile. A sommelier colleague of mine said that a client of his preferred it to limited production bottles of the big houses. Kelt also produces Armagnac in this method and a vatted malt whisky.

I was at the International Wine Meeting in Chicago earlier this year and there was an entire room devoted to Armagnac. Armagnac allows up to 10 different grape varieties and some distilleries make bottlings with only one varietal. (The geek in me rejoices at this!) Trust me, sampling free Armagnac from one's birth year is one of life's pleasures. (I didn't spit.) Houses to look for include Delord and Castarede. A new product from Armagnac is La Blanche which is a young clear spirit.

A relatively new AOC is Calvados Domfrontais. Unlike Calvados and Calvados Pays d'Auge, which are made entirely from apples, Calvados Domfrontais requires a minimum of 30% pears.

TMOliver Dec 11, 2010 9:24 am

FMH1964's post contains some interesting info, including the mention of Armagnac and calvados, both worthy companions to Cognac.

Recently, I ran across a medium priced Cognac bottling, "Gabriel & Andreu", also available in 4 single estate bottlings, quite different from the current run of "heavy bodied" popular brands which I often find cloying. I recommend the brand highly and found it comparable in appeal to my long time favorite, Hine.

number_6 Dec 11, 2010 7:04 pm

Its been years since I've drunk Hine Triomphe but I recall it as being unusually heavy (rich and full-bodied) with a lot of vanilla. Quite a different style from its peers/competitors. Martell Cordon Bleu is also good value (and somewhat similar, though more like an older XO). But the really good cognacs are from the small producers and not often imported into Canada or US; these are often priced much lower as well as being better drinking.


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