The only place I know of in the UK that does free refills on soft drinks is Pizza Hut.

Hard Rock Cafe does (or did).

I remembered this old thread today because I was just in Miami, eating at a local Cuban restaurant. The waiter spoke little English, and I speak only a little Spanish. No problem ordering my meal because they have a menu and I can read it. But then we want to order something to drink, preferably with alcohol. Almost impossible to know what the restaurant offered, and completely impossible to figure out what it cost. The waiter kept offering Sangria, so we got some. It was probably a little overpriced and certainly mediocre.

I'm now headed to Cambodia, and a restaurant in Siem Reap was recommended to me. I apparently need a reservation, so I go to their website to find a contact number/email. They also have their menu posted, INCLUDING their drink offerings and prices. So it will be easier for me to buy a drink in Cambodia than it is in Miami!

I also see that many USA jurisdictions are now requiring restaurants to post calorie counts on menus. This is good and bad. I now know that maybe I shouldn't order a shake at In n Out because it's a zillion calories. On the other hand, it clutters up menus and sometimes makes it more difficult to figure out what things cost (at an airport pizza shop, I thought the price was one amount, but that was actually just the calorie count). In any event, I'd much rather know what the prices are than the calories. Is it really asking too much for the USA to follow the rest of the world's practice and require restaurants to have a drink menu with prices on it?

Asking for the prices means no tip??? BS
 

I ask for the price of beer everywhere I go. I just want to pay the least per ounce as possible. I assume that if prices aren't listed in the menu they're probably high but even so, that has no impact on my tip. What does impact my tip is crappy service and attitude from the server but prices do not. If you are a good server I tip 20%. If the server is crappy I to lip 5-10%. If they are terrible I tip 0 and await their visit to my car to confront me (not a great idea). I ask for beer prices on principle. The server who sighs or is put out by a simple request does not good a good tip from me. Get over yourself server (I say rhetorically)

Half the time I ask, the waitstaff doesn't even know, so it's usually an exercise in futility.

The microbeer trend does seem to be somewhat increasing the frequency of a drink menu with prices in the USA -- especially at higher end restaurants. I guess if you're serving lots of different beers of various quality, it's difficult not to list the prices next to them (could you imagine ordering off a wine menu without prices?). I seem to order beer out more than wine, since the mark-up is often much less. I guess everybody knows what a beer should cost, but few know what a particular wine should sell for, so the restaurants can't "go crazy" with the price. I've been to a lot of nice restaurants where a really good beer is about $4, but a halfway decent bottle of wine is $45.

[QUOTE=iahphx;20609230]Half the time I ask, the waitstaff doesn't even know, so it's usually an exercise in futility.

The microbeer trend does seem to be somewhat increasing the frequency of a drink menu with prices in the USA -- especially at higher end restaurants. I guess if you're serving lots of different beers of various quality, it's difficult not to list the prices next to them (could you imagine ordering off a wine menu without prices?). I seem to order beer out more than wine, since the mark-up is often much less. I guess everybody knows what a beer should cost, but few know what a particular wine should sell for, so the restaurants can't "go crazy" with the price. I've been to a lot of nice restaurants where a really good beer is about $4, but a halfway decent bottle of wine is $45.[/QUOTE]

What you either don't realize, or are ignoring here ,though, is that the markup is almost always the same on those two products....~300%~ in my area. Or put more simply, the wholesale cost x3. So, that $4 beer cost the restaurant around $1.30, and the bottle of wine cost about $15.

Despite popular opinon, in most locales wholesale liquor isn't hugely discounted from retail; in Texas the average is around 15%. So, deduct liquor tax (ranging from 5-17% of the restaurant/bar sales price) depending on individual state taxes, wages, utitlities, possible payoffs to the local Gendarmes (YMMV here), etc., all the other ovherhead every business encounters, and you'll typically end up with 30% net on liquor sales. Notice I didn't include spoilage/shrinkage in that roundup. The former can be very high in wine especially, the latter can be very high across the board if an owner/manager doesn't have good control of pouring, comps, getting the girlfriend oiled up for after work, etc.

While a 30% net profit might seem outrageous to all of us not in the petroleum industry, consider the offset of very often <10% profit on food items and the overall profitability of a restaurant comes down substantially, not even including the long strange hours, the increased corporate/personal liability of serving alcohol, and the unpredictable demands of an increasingly self-entitled society. It's a wonder anyone with any talent still goes into the restaurant business. @:-)

[QUOTE=NotDuncan;20610562]Yup, on a percentage basis, the profit margin could be the same. But it's difficult to price things on a percentage basis. That's why steak in a restaurant is generally a better deal than, say, musssels, since few folks are willing to spring for a $50 steak entree.

And without a menu, it can be difficult to predict what a restaurant will charge for alcoholic drinks, since some are trying to make the "big bucks" on such items and others are trying to make their alcohol prices "attractive" to customers. Draft beer is a classic example. It costs very little to serve a draft beer, and some restaurants/bars will have happy hour prices around $2, and others will sell the same beer for $6. Like I have one local restaurant that has very reasonable food prices, but very expensive -- and hidden -- beer prices. I guess everybody has to cover their costs somehow. It obviously isn't an easy business. But for the consumer, it's definitely annoying when you don't know what the prices are.

In most EU countries, it must be free by law for anyone who orders food. Of course, some restaurants will fight you on that :p

An ethical place will usually have prices for some basic drinks - martinis, gimlets, etc. - on the menu. They will usually use that as a basis for anything you have them make for you, and adjust for higher shelf.

I do agree that you usually get a decently poured drink. In fact, I find that they sometimes over pour on drinks that require some precision to be tasty.

I also agree that its neither cheap nor inappropriate to ask the price. I also think that, in a case where you don't have prices listed for your specific drink, there is no shame in arguing your bill. If they aren't publishing a price, you have the absolute right to negotiate.

I see beer pretty much all the time, but you might have to ask if its a more recent add to the menu or they have an ever changing beer selection.

You definitely get the "drink menu" prices. For the unfamiliar, and I can't imagine there are many, that is where they put a few "creative" cocktails that are very hit or miss, but that they train every bartender on.

Yeah - very typical. The law in Germany is that a restaurant MUST give free leitungs wasser (tap water) to anyone who orders food. Of course, they don't usually like doing that.

Subway does - its their worldwide policy.

I will give UK restaurants some credit, however. Relative to dine in places in the US, they generally give you a larger soda size (served in a UK pint glass - 20 oz) and don't mark it up as much (a pub will charge you ~a quid).

The mark up on beer can actually be more. Beer is significantly cheaper than wine to start with, and draught beer comes in large kegs that are really cheap. Like Coca-Cola postmix cheap, or nearly so.

Wine, as someone else said, is usually 2-3x marked up, and you almost never see a size other than a Standard 750ml bottle. Hard to get it in the kind of bulk that brings greater economies of scale.

I got charged 3 euros for a glass of tap water in Copenhagen a few years back. Deep inside the menu, in small print, they listed the charge.

Encountered my first (maybe 2nd now if I remember one in an upscale region of MIA) McDonalds that wanted to charge 50 cents for a cup of water in Kihei, HI. I opted to skip the water... the fried blueberry pie was decent though ^

Really wish more places would have drink prices available stateside.

No sign that the annoying practice of not listing drink prices in USA restaurants is changing. I was in a restaurant this week that didn't even list the soda prices.

I really wish this would get regulated: otherwise, most restaurants will continue to keep them "unlisted."

And while we're at it, I'm noticing an increasing trend of restaurants having expensive "daily specials." At fancy restaurants, there is rarely a board listing the prices, and the waiters don't volunteer the pricing information. I guess they're hoping you'll be too embarrassed to ask (and it IS embarrassing). The specials are almost always a "worse deal" than the menu items. Ridiculous, but I guess the business is tough and restaurant owners share their revenue tricks.

Restaurants, especially small ones, are very responsive to customer comments. If even a few people indicate that they skipped ordering a drink because the prices weren't there, they will start listing the prices.

I don't think I have ever ordered anything in a restaurant without knowing the price. If I can, I will ask. If it's a situation where it would be awkward to ask, I won't order it.

Absolutely, I even once (dining alone) described my possibility to eat somewhere else, and voila - a drink list was presented within a minute :p

I doubt most fancy USA restaurants have "drink lists." Heck, the majority of USA waiters don't even know what the drinks cost. I find this particularly annoying if I'm trying to decide on which craft beer to order.

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