Post-changes euphoria??? Get a grip!
 

I have not been a rabid anti-Deltan to date, but these new changes are pretty bogus -- I'm amazed that people are jumping for joy!

First of all (and, actually, last of all as well), every upgrade is dependent on availabilty. Not only do these new changes mean NOTHING for international travellers, but as an international traveler with a fist-full of unused (and unusable) Plat. Upgrade Certificates, I can assure you that it is VERY EASY to give people the OPPORTUNITY to upgrade without giving them an upgrade -- they might as well offer free Britney Spears lapdances "subject to availability" (apologies to those who don't want a Britney Spears lapdance--I'm not very creative and couldn't think of something universally desirable).

Also, note the clever way that because MMs are "given" these new upgrade opportunities, they will no longer offer bonus points instead of upgrades -- at least bonus points were something you could actually GET.

For some reason do you think the proposed system 500 MSU wasn't "subject to availability" ???

The system, as setup now, rewards the high spender - as it should.

As a DL Platinum for the last 5 years who will drop to Gold in 2004 because I flew the majority of miles on AA, I applaud the changes. They are, I fear, too little and too late.

They are not enough to bring me back to Delta full time. I only fly Delta now if they have the only direct flight.

However, if this is meant as a sign of better things to come, bring 'em on!

I can be bought, but I ain't cheap!

mmmmm....Britney Spears Lapdance

A very good point. The number of seats in First has not changed at all. Well okay, they have changed and gone DOWN due to RJs and SONG type flights, but that is another story.

The number of F seats has not changed. Just the number of people that go after them. On normal flights, they almost ALWAYS left full, so what has changed?

The order of obtaining them might change a bit, but there are still only X number of seats on each plane.

The only real change I think people will see is on those lighter loads, or saturday morning type flights might now be closer to full in first.

In order to do a fair comparison, you need to look at the proposed 2004 changes rather than the 2003 program. As a PM, I have unlimited upgrades already so the new program wouldn't matter much. However, I was about to have tiny numbers of upgrades based on the 2004 program (<20% of my flights).

Of course there are a limited number of seats, there always have been. PMs will get one of those seats on almost every flight they take. GMs will get a seat on more than half. FOs will get one once in awhile.

More importantly, no one has to determine when to try to upgrade with a silly point system that just makes a bunch of people mad that they "can't use their points." The higher status, higher paying pax get rewarded first, and non-revs ride in the back.

This just makes sense.

BillyG

Exactly my response (minus Britney) as a GMM who mainly uses Delta for international flights.

You're right, of course--everything is subject to availability, but look at the sleight of hand here: all Delta has done is provided AN OPPORTUNITY (which costs them ZERO) and taken away something concrete (bonus miles--not that it costs them much, but it was something).

Obviously, the "theory of unlimited upgrades" is better than the "theory of restricted upgrades" but in the end, it's fairly meaningless. I'm amazed that all the hard-boiled FTers who have been so critical of DL up until now are all of the sudden thinking they've "won" when in fact, all they've been given is a promise in exchange for what would have been a material certainty (i.e., bonus miles).

I kinda have to hand it to Patrice -- he's apparently (to read this board) snatched victory from the jaws of defeat simply by reframing his rhetoric and making people think Delta is giving them something. Again, as a "high-spender" with a TON of possible upgrades coming to me that can't be used because there is no availability, I have to wonder: how much are those upgrades worth, exactly....? I'll trade you my 4 remaining Plat. Upgrade Certs that expire in 2003 for $2 (and I'd advise you not to take me up on it unless you think these make better toilet paper than dollar bills).

Oh no, it does cost them something. There will be some (how many, who knows) that will purchase the Y fare because they have an opportunity to upgrade whereas they would have purchased a F fare if no chance of upgrade was available.

Okay, I just got the second email reporting help to those who fly short-hauls. Any hope for international flyers who need the old system-wide upgrades?

True only if people actually GET upgrades -- if (as I suspect) the promise of upgrades doesn't actually reliably (say, >40% of the time) result in an upgrade, people will learn pretty quickly that F is the only realistic way to secure a place in the front of the plane. Again, had DL kept the option of getting bonus miles instead of promises of upgrades, I would have been much less cynical.

Xeno, there is nothing in the new announcement that helps international flyers. The upgrades don't apply to international flights. As someone who makes a lot of LUT flights over the water, I would have loved to have them be counted for full value but unfortunately that is not to be.

Still, I have to admit that for most Delta medallion members today is definitely a brighter one.

So this is actually a net loss for international travel since, as this thread shows, we will not be getting bonus miles with the old-new chart.

It seems to work over at NW/CO. Just ask Mikey... and besides, as has been said, you only had an "opportunity" to get upgraded before, and not even on eery flight because you had to have upgrade points. I mean, for PMs, this is basically a complete restoration. The only people who will have priority over them are the people who are FO/GM/PM on a Y. This really isn't different from before except before the GMS and FOs don't have to have upgrade points available, as they now have unlimited. This only translates into a few more peeps in front of PMs. I am just curious how it will work with NRSAs now. I was on DL1690 on the 764 this passed Saturday, and noticed the OBLs listing of FC pax and Medallion pax in Y. F has mroe than half NRSA, and Y had 2 PMs and a couple GMs. Now, with everyone entitled to an upgade, will NRSAs still get F as much?

Edited to add:

When breaking down the new confirmation window into a chart form, it proves quite interesting:

PM - YBM
PM - HQK
GM - YBM
GM - HQK
FO - YBM
FO - HQK
PM - LUT
GM - LUT
FO - LUT
General - YBM
General - HQK


This is essentially the new priority list, it is just being translated into "confirmation windows." I think it makes sense. So although the PM on a K can't confirm at time of booking anymore, he is still guaranteed the upgrade unless a bunch on PMs buy M+ before 100 hours out... Personally, I like this way of priority. I think it makes sense, and is in agreement with the "reward the higher $ pax first"

[This message has been edited by jjglaze77 (edited Dec 18, 2003).]

Exactly.