lsquare

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...er-2024-season

This decision does mean B6 will be denied from flying to AMS altogether as it doesn't have any historical rights. B6 is asking the DOT to ban KL from flying to JFK.

I personally think this is a terrible decision by the Dutch government. After billions of Euros have been invested at AMS, they've decided to do something this drastic.

Firstboss

Dutch government is famous for making emotional bad decisions to imitate green policy.

The other examples include:

- Reduction of speed limit on highways from 130 km/h to 100 km/h (80 to 62 mph) to meet the self-imposed reduction of greenhouse gases emission. They failed to force farmers to feed the cattle with less methane-producing solutions, and urgently targeted the pleasure of driving to meet the quota.
- Restrictions on residential construction: Even in the overheated real estate market the Dutch courts keep blocking permits for new houses because each residency adds to methane emissions by inhabitants in that location. Forgetting that the same inhabitants still emit methane within the country, only in worse living conditions.

- Airline tickets out of AMS keep getting increased fees for environmental reasons, and political activists lobby to raise them to restrictive levels.

Overall, passenger traffic will be lost towards airports in Brussels and Dusseldorf, while the amount of passengers flying around this small planet is unaffected by Dutch bureaucracy imitations of being green

Maestro Ramen

Far from a bad decision as it has a huge impact not only on emissions, but also on road safety (in addition to "driving pleasure"), but OT.

The weirdest thing for me about this take off/landing restriction is that it seemingly doesn't address capacity at all, just the umber of flights. So technically all Delta needs to do is bring in the 777s and transavia should start looking into doing Mallorca flights on A380s

Firstboss

On the contrary, speed limit reduction from 130 to 100 km/h (82 to 60 mph) reduces road safety since a lot more people drive faster than the rest of the traffic, and do so aggressively around those blocking the lanes at the speed limit. Emissions are increased when one constantly accelerates above speed limit then breaks for possible camera / police traps.
Germany is the last free country on this over-regulated planet. Well, German autobahns are, the country is one of the most bureaucratic ones.

Good points on capacity of planes!

rylan

Paywall article - cannot read.

All I can say without knowing what is in the article, is that AMS is still a complete clusterxxxx and should be a massive embarrassment to the Dutch. 2hr passport lines to connect to a intra-EU flight are absurd, as well as the passport line from baggage claim that backs up into the main terminal. And that is during shoulder season, not even peak summer.

Grouchy

It's just politics, scoring in the run-up to the national elections later this month. From using one faulty model to another (keep in mind that planes are producing less (noise) pollution then a couple of years ago) & afaik they don't follow the EU procedures to first take other measures against noise pollution before rigorously cutting the number of flights.
Delta will not the only one starting legal proceedings against this decision.

lsquare

FT rules don't permit me to post the entire article. I do have a subscription to Bloomberg.

Firstboss

I expect the legal proceedings and appeals to run through the whole 2024, effectively putting this decision on hold

Grouchy

DOT responding:

1. The Department approves the Joint Complaint of the members of the Air Transport
Association of America, Inc. (d/b/a Airlines for America) in Docket DOT-OST-2023-0148,
against the Government of the Netherlands and the European Union;

2. The Department approves the Complaint of JetBlue Airways Corporation in Dockets DOT-
OST-2023-0028 and DOT-OST-2023-0151, against the Government of the Netherlands and the
European Union;

3. The Department orders KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, N.V.; Martinair Holland N.V.; and TUI
Airlines Nederland, B.V. to file with the Department (via electronic mail to
[email protected] and in Dockets DOT-OST-2023-0028 and DOT-OST-2023-0151),
within seven (7) days of the service date of this order, any and all of their existing schedules for
air transportation services, including code-share, common branding, and extra sections, between
any point or points in the United States and any point or points not in the United States, which
shall include:
• the type of equipment used or to be used,
• the frequency and day(s) of operation of each flight,
• the specific airport served at each point, and
• the time of arrival and departure at each point;
and to serve such schedules on the persons named in ordering paragraph 6, below;

4. The Department orders KLM Royal Dutch Airlines, N.V.; Martinair Holland N.V.; and TUI
Airlines Nederland, B.V. to file with the Department (via electronic mail to
[email protected] and in Dockets DOT-OST-2023-0028 and DOT-OST-2023-0151) any
and all of their proposed schedules for air transportation services, including code-share, common
branding, and extra sections, between any point or points in the United States and any point or
points not in the United States, including the information noted in ordering paragraph 3 above,
the proposed effective date of such schedules, and the proposed termination date of such
schedules (if known), at least 30 days prior to inauguration of service and to serve such
schedules on the persons named in ordering paragraph 6, below

https://downloads.regulations.gov/DO...tachment_1.pdf

woodenshoe101

The Dutch government is (in)famous for believing the world beyond its borders doesn't exist when it comes to environmental isues. This doesn't mean you can't take a leading role in environmental initiatives, but it is often done in the way Don Quixote looked at windmills.

For years they had been working on Lelystad being a reliever airport for AMS and particularly the out-and-back vacation flights, but its opening has been delayed numerous times. Use AMS what it was built for, a connection hub.

Re: passport lines, these are managed by the Royal Marechaussee and the airport itself has limited influence on that. Doesn't make it less annoying, but is no different than say CDG. In general, what i don't get - DL can board all passengers with facial recognition in 2 seconds per passenger, yet the automated passport kiosks at AMS take 30-40s per passenger to do the same. There has to be a better solution for this IMO.

xliioper

I'm feeling a sense of Deja Vu here --

https://evansparks.wordpress.com/200...cost-too-much/
https://crankyflier.com/2009/04/06/f...apped-eco-tax/

rylan

Its sad, but after my past few experiences in AMS this year I'd rather connect through CDG both into and out of the EU even with having to take a bus tour around the airport.
CDG had a priority/quick connect line and much shorter line in general. AMS you can't use the automated passport kiosk on arrival into the EU for connections, and as you said it is slooooow for departing EU flights and still has a 45min+ line. Their 'quick connect' is essentially the normal line, since they keep calling times and pax from the normal line have to go to quick connect because they've been standing there so long they now are in danger of a misconnect. So last time I just went to the lounge and then back to passport control when I was within quick connect time. Stupid.

robert4travels

Just to be sure, the reduction in landing slots at AMS is mainly for noise pollution for the people living around the airport. Less air pollution is secondary.
But especially the Dutch government is shooting KLM in the foot. They get less slots at AMS and a possible punitive reduction of slots in the US.

lsquare

The Dutch sure love taxes. Apparently, Amsterdam is raising taxes on tourists spending the night there. It's like the highest in the world. It's like as if they don't want AMS to be a global hub, screw over KL, and harm their tourism industry.

It’s only fair that the US retaliate since B6 will be banned from flying to AMS. The easiest way to resolve this is to force KL to give up some slots to B6. That still doesn't change the fact that KL and ST will be screwed with the cap.

lsquare

https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/no...Q3gCQa7PYMj5-L

​​​​​​​B6 has a valid point. DL seems pretty quiet publicly. I would like them to make a lot more noise about how they'll be affected.