What do you consider good redemption value?
Apr 18, 2019, 6:53 am
#31
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Independent
Posts: 470
For these purposes, I take the price of the ticket in cash and divide it by the number of miles I am spending. Sometimes I use the amount I would actually be willing to spend on the ticket as the numerator for my own valuation, but in terms of what I think the airline should offer in value it's their cash price.
E.g. if the former gives me 2c/mile I feel like the program is offering good value, but if other airlines have an equivalent ticket for half the cash price, it would be a bad redemption. So I will only redeem when the latter is > X. (1.4c?)
E.g. if the former gives me 2c/mile I feel like the program is offering good value, but if other airlines have an equivalent ticket for half the cash price, it would be a bad redemption. So I will only redeem when the latter is > X. (1.4c?)
Last edited by hkcj; Apr 18, 2019 at 6:59 am Reason: Typo
Apr 18, 2019, 7:58 am
#32
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: MSP
Programs: DL GM, MR Gold, Hilton Gold, National Exec
Posts: 535
For these purposes, I take the price of the ticket in cash and divide it by the number of miles I am spending. Sometimes I use the amount I would actually be willing to spend on the ticket as the numerator for my own valuation, but in terms of what I think the airline should offer in value it's their cash price.
E.g. if the former gives me 2c/mile I feel like the program is offering good value, but if other airlines have an equivalent ticket for half the cash price, it would be a bad redemption. So I will only redeem when the latter is > X. (1.4c?)
E.g. if the former gives me 2c/mile I feel like the program is offering good value, but if other airlines have an equivalent ticket for half the cash price, it would be a bad redemption. So I will only redeem when the latter is > X. (1.4c?)
I do like your comment about what you're willing to spend...claiming extremely high redemption values on int'l business bothers me. Most wouldn't have paid that cash fare!
Apr 18, 2019, 10:16 am
#33
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: ATL
Programs: Delta PlM, 1M
Posts: 6,363
In today's world, I take 1.5 (by my math) and accept that.
Some people do a poor job on the math though. Frist,, you have to factor in miles that would be earned, not a trivial point.
Example: My next award flight (other than a short domestic) is 170K ATL<>TPE. C. But if I paid cash for the ticket I would receive about 45K miles, so the real miles cost is 215K. And have to factor in the MQM/Ds also.
The other issue is valuing the cash ticket. The cash value of the flight flown might be well more than what you would have flown if not using miles. Shopping around with different goals.
Example. Same flight, cash price would likely be $5.5K or some nonsense. But if paying cash I would take a positioning flight and get that price under $4K.
Some people do a poor job on the math though. Frist,, you have to factor in miles that would be earned, not a trivial point.
Example: My next award flight (other than a short domestic) is 170K ATL<>TPE. C. But if I paid cash for the ticket I would receive about 45K miles, so the real miles cost is 215K. And have to factor in the MQM/Ds also.
The other issue is valuing the cash ticket. The cash value of the flight flown might be well more than what you would have flown if not using miles. Shopping around with different goals.
Example. Same flight, cash price would likely be $5.5K or some nonsense. But if paying cash I would take a positioning flight and get that price under $4K.
Apr 23, 2019, 12:30 pm
#34
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Independent
Posts: 470
Apr 23, 2019, 11:13 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Programs: Frontier Gold, DL estranged 1MMer, Spirit VIP, CO/NW/UA/AA once gold/plat/comped gold now dust.
Posts: 38,151
I just realized today that I've had one flight on DL metal in the last 4 years (a JFK-ATL to complete a SEZ trip on EY). And that after 25 years or so and running up enough miles to be a 1MMer, so in a way I feel like a visitor from the past. Am glad to have burned all but about 75K miles (DL, BTW, is harder to completely avoid like I have when you're in ATL).
Anyway, I've been checking the award charts and I gotta say the "dynamic pricing" looks just awful compared to what it used to be on many of the same routes. And this is at the lowest fare level (all my awards have been for free travel). For every one like ATL-MCI-ATL at 13K, there's some abomination like SCL-ATL one way at 100K! HNL appears to bottom out around 51K RT, PDX around 39K, and so on.
Except for the short hauls it looks like everything is higher across the board, even for slow periods like late August and September. And they want that to apply to basic economy? (Sorry I'm so out of practice in booking DL awards...I had some real doozies back in the day).
Besides being glad for having burned the miles when they were worth much more, I've gotta say that the higher award levels and general opacity with the "dynamic pricing" are really deflating my enthusiasm for even infrequent collecting of miles. That was already being hurt by the much-degraded ability to earn RDMs on DL and partners, but if you put these devalued levels on top of that and don't have a chart, then the miles really start to fade into insignificance.
And since the legacies are a triopoly, it looks like UA and AA are headed that way as well. What once was the most effective marketing program in business history and able to incentivize plenty of trips that wouldn't otherwise have been taken has been reduced to something that increasingly compares unfavorably to ULCCs. I have about the same number of Frontier miles as DL and they may actually be worth more without me knowing it.
Anyway, I've been checking the award charts and I gotta say the "dynamic pricing" looks just awful compared to what it used to be on many of the same routes. And this is at the lowest fare level (all my awards have been for free travel). For every one like ATL-MCI-ATL at 13K, there's some abomination like SCL-ATL one way at 100K! HNL appears to bottom out around 51K RT, PDX around 39K, and so on.
Except for the short hauls it looks like everything is higher across the board, even for slow periods like late August and September. And they want that to apply to basic economy? (Sorry I'm so out of practice in booking DL awards...I had some real doozies back in the day).
Besides being glad for having burned the miles when they were worth much more, I've gotta say that the higher award levels and general opacity with the "dynamic pricing" are really deflating my enthusiasm for even infrequent collecting of miles. That was already being hurt by the much-degraded ability to earn RDMs on DL and partners, but if you put these devalued levels on top of that and don't have a chart, then the miles really start to fade into insignificance.
And since the legacies are a triopoly, it looks like UA and AA are headed that way as well. What once was the most effective marketing program in business history and able to incentivize plenty of trips that wouldn't otherwise have been taken has been reduced to something that increasingly compares unfavorably to ULCCs. I have about the same number of Frontier miles as DL and they may actually be worth more without me knowing it.
Apr 24, 2019, 5:27 am
#36
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Maryland
Programs: DL-Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 459
I used to say anything above 1.5 cents per mile was decent, but the flash sales have spoiled me....I refuse to redeem outside of a flash sale.
I got 140K round-trip for D1 to Tokyo which worked out to 7 or 8 cents per mile based on the consistently high cash price,
I got 140K round-trip for D1 to Tokyo which worked out to 7 or 8 cents per mile based on the consistently high cash price,
Apr 24, 2019, 11:51 am
#37
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 29
If I got points, to not pay cash for business class seats makes sense to me. Rather than hold these points which have depreciated greatly. Which is why they are now called skypesos. They aren't an asset one can sell or even appreciate in value. You can't inherit them, you die. Bye bye points.
Hubs and I traveled using these points 25+ times for business class seats overseas we scored in the '90's and the '00's. Was an excellent time to travel. Plenty of seats and 90,000 points round trip business class seats overseas. .
When I buy something, I take the value (say $1,000.00) and add on to that amount how much it really cost me by adding back in the taxes etc. I paid.
Best way to talk yourself out of buying somethings, like over priced designer bags.
Hubs and I traveled using these points 25+ times for business class seats overseas we scored in the '90's and the '00's. Was an excellent time to travel. Plenty of seats and 90,000 points round trip business class seats overseas. .
When I buy something, I take the value (say $1,000.00) and add on to that amount how much it really cost me by adding back in the taxes etc. I paid.
Best way to talk yourself out of buying somethings, like over priced designer bags.
Last edited by Swanky Safari; Apr 24, 2019 at 11:58 am