Will Delta exit NRT for HND and eliminate flights to SIN and MNL?
Dec 26, 2018, 8:05 pm
#1
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Will Delta exit NRT for HND and eliminate flights to SIN and MNL?
In my attempt to find the correct thread, I came upon this. If there might be other(s) let me know....... I have (and probably others) have heard that DL is (will) exit NRT in favor of HND, and will consider termination of DL metal into MNL (Manila) and SIN (Singapore). Nonstops from west coast cities (like SEA and LAX) will need an aircraft to make the trip and probably can not possibly fill those planes. So leaving those two cities and having the JV companies finish the segment may be one good answer, I was thinking about other possibilities that would allow DL metal to still make the full voyage (direct with 1 stop). Let me know if this concept would work or get the nix.........By using a B767-300ER doing the SEA-HNL piece, and then the HNL-SIN piece (this could eventually be upgraded to the A330-900neo). The other part using the B767-300ER on LAX-HNL (which DL currently flys) and then use the same B767-300ER continue with the HNL-MNL piece. Now the only other part of this option would have both planes coming from the 48-state gateway cities to arrive very close to the same time in HNL - to allow transfers to either Asian destinations. DL keeps the service and eliminates current connections in NRT (which is what DL wants to do anyway). Three thumbs up! two thumbs down or ???. Happy Holidays!
Dec 26, 2018, 9:34 pm
#2
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I'm moving this thread to the Delta forum from mileage run, where I think it will be better housed.
Ryandc99, Moderator Mileage Runs
Ryandc99, Moderator Mileage Runs
Last edited by ryandc99; Dec 27, 2018 at 7:39 pm
Dec 27, 2018, 4:35 am
#3
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HND is slot controlled and Delta only has authority for two flights to the airport right now. They may get more in the future, and have requested flexibility from the US DOT for those slots in what airports they are used for, but for now NRT isn’t going anywhere.
You may see flights overflying Japan to Manila and Singapore someday, but for now I think the NRT mini hub will remain for another year or two. SQ just started SEA-SIN, the most logical US gateway for DL to attempt a direct flight from, which reduces the likelihood that would be added. And there isn’t any capacity to add more flights until the new SEA international arrivals facility is completed in a few years anyway.
You may see flights overflying Japan to Manila and Singapore someday, but for now I think the NRT mini hub will remain for another year or two. SQ just started SEA-SIN, the most logical US gateway for DL to attempt a direct flight from, which reduces the likelihood that would be added. And there isn’t any capacity to add more flights until the new SEA international arrivals facility is completed in a few years anyway.
Dec 27, 2018, 8:50 am
#4
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Interesting Question.
At a minimum, DL will probably need flights from all of ATL, DTW, SEA plus LAX (which they have currently) to HND in order to officially “close” the NRT hub. Remember DL also flies to NRT from PDX, HNL, and other Pacific Beach locations..., but those flights are more origin/destination related and would probably still operate from NRT independently of whatever happens at HND.
But if the DL core hubs all received HND service, I doubt there would be enough feed to continue SIN/MNL from NRT. Whether DL would try a long and thin route to SIN/MNL from LAX or SEA is questionable, but interesting to think about.
At a minimum, DL will probably need flights from all of ATL, DTW, SEA plus LAX (which they have currently) to HND in order to officially “close” the NRT hub. Remember DL also flies to NRT from PDX, HNL, and other Pacific Beach locations..., but those flights are more origin/destination related and would probably still operate from NRT independently of whatever happens at HND.
But if the DL core hubs all received HND service, I doubt there would be enough feed to continue SIN/MNL from NRT. Whether DL would try a long and thin route to SIN/MNL from LAX or SEA is questionable, but interesting to think about.
Dec 27, 2018, 9:03 am
#5
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That's one way to serve SIN and MNL, but I'm not sure DL cares about serving them with DL metal. Look at all of the one-stops possible on DL/KE North America XXX-ICN-SIN/MNL vs. XXX-HNL-SIN/MNL.
Dec 27, 2018, 10:12 am
#7
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Pretty sure Ed communicated this clearly in an interview he gave earlier this year:
https://www.businesstravelnews.com/T...and-Free-Wi-Fi
Language like "Narita ops not sustainable" and traffic "probably will be at zero at some point" sounds pretty definitive/conclusive about DL's future at NRT. I think the writing is on the wall for NRT-MNL/SIN.
https://www.businesstravelnews.com/T...and-Free-Wi-Fi
Language like "Narita ops not sustainable" and traffic "probably will be at zero at some point" sounds pretty definitive/conclusive about DL's future at NRT. I think the writing is on the wall for NRT-MNL/SIN.
Dec 27, 2018, 10:14 am
#8
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Is there enough pure O&D traffic between US and HND to fill those planes vs. the combination of O&D and connecting traffic to SIN/MNL they currently use to fill the US - NRT flights?
Dec 27, 2018, 10:54 am
#9
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DL wants to get out of NRT.
Currently there is MSP and LAX to HND
And ATL, DTW, SEA, PDX, MNL, SIN and HNL to NRT
I believe that if DL could get 4 more slot pairs to HND, they'd close NRT - ATL, DTW, SEA and PDX. I think they'd give up Hawaii and the 5th freedom routes and focus on transfers at ICN or PVG to KE and MU respectively.
As to adding flights to MNL and SIN on DL metal, there is so much overcapacity TPAC right now, I highly doubt DL would fly those direct from the US.
Just my thoughts.
Currently there is MSP and LAX to HND
And ATL, DTW, SEA, PDX, MNL, SIN and HNL to NRT
I believe that if DL could get 4 more slot pairs to HND, they'd close NRT - ATL, DTW, SEA and PDX. I think they'd give up Hawaii and the 5th freedom routes and focus on transfers at ICN or PVG to KE and MU respectively.
As to adding flights to MNL and SIN on DL metal, there is so much overcapacity TPAC right now, I highly doubt DL would fly those direct from the US.
Just my thoughts.
Dec 27, 2018, 11:28 am
#10
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Given the trends I think long term Delta wants to exit NRT and offload what flights it can to KE (which I wouldn't be surprised if SIN and MNL go that way). After pulling out of HKG, any reduction by DL in Asia no longer surprises me.
Which seems seems like a shame - I always thought 5th freedom flights were pretty cool, and it was neat that one could fly on PMNW, then Delta, metal throughout a lot of Asia. (I suspect that penetration helped PMNW get a good reputation there). Or at the very least my perception of a world class airline is affected by the network where you can go on that airline's own metal, whether it's using the NRT hub or flying directly from the US mainland. Of course what I'd like to see airlines do from my own point of view usually doesn't make good business sense for them
Which seems seems like a shame - I always thought 5th freedom flights were pretty cool, and it was neat that one could fly on PMNW, then Delta, metal throughout a lot of Asia. (I suspect that penetration helped PMNW get a good reputation there). Or at the very least my perception of a world class airline is affected by the network where you can go on that airline's own metal, whether it's using the NRT hub or flying directly from the US mainland. Of course what I'd like to see airlines do from my own point of view usually doesn't make good business sense for them
Dec 27, 2018, 12:00 pm
#11
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I always enjoyed the NRT experience, starting back in the PMNW days when many more Asian cities were served through this hub. I would definitely book away from a HNL connection as I value long uninterrupted sleep time on TPAC flights. I also have no desire to connect in PVG unless mainland China is my destination.
Dec 27, 2018, 1:23 pm
#12
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I always enjoyed the NRT experience, starting back in the PMNW days when many more Asian cities were served through this hub. I would definitely book away from a HNL connection as I value long uninterrupted sleep time on TPAC flights. I also have no desire to connect in PVG unless mainland China is my destination.
Dec 27, 2018, 1:46 pm
#13
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I think DL will ultimately close NRT once they have enough slots to bring SEA, ATL, and DTW to HND. PDX gets dropped and either JAL or ANA can pick it up as they would actually be able to provide connections.
Dec 27, 2018, 2:00 pm
#14
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It’s no secret that DL is trying to de-hub NRT by 2020, which certainly means cutting onward connections to SIN and MNL, and probably also means eventually eliminating flights like ATL-NRT. DL is rumored to be pursing a SEA-SIN route and is relying on its JV with KE (and increasingly its alliances with MU/CI) to serve its Asia market.
Dec 27, 2018, 2:37 pm
#15
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It’s no secret that DL is trying to de-hub NRT by 2020, which certainly means cutting onward connections to SIN and MNL, and probably also means eventually eliminating flights like ATL-NRT. DL is rumored to be pursing a SEA-SIN route and is relying on its JV with KE (and increasingly its alliances with MU/CI) to serve its Asia market.