Solution for the GUC problems ...
 

Why not have an GUC+ (insted to choice 4 x GUC, you can choice 2 x GUC+).
The GUC+ give you access to upgrade at ticketing to J (no class restriction).

Or to use 2 x GUC to avoid the class restriction.
This will also lower the "usable" # of GUC (and leave more GUC seat for "normal" GUC PAX).

Wishful thinking but this will never happen. Delta will not let a seat they think they can sell (at a certain target margin) go for a free upgrade instead.

I truly do not understand the non-stop whining recently in the DL forum about GUC's. They have been successful beyond my wildest dreams for the past three years for my wife and I. Like so many other "enhancements" over the years, DL has no reason to make these GUC's "better". They keep taking perks away and keep making more money.

I think I need to start up a bunch of threads whining about how low-revenue Diamonds like us will no longer be Diamonds next year. (...and quickly be shot down by the WFBF minions who for some reason participate in forum that revolves around FF perks)

This is basically the right way to be looking at it. Delta most definitely doesn't see the GUC status quo as a "problem".

I don't think there's conflict between participating in a forum where the goal is to maximize benefits and simultaneously recognizing that the airline doesn't necessarily want to make it easy for us.

The reason this "scheme" will never work, is simple, IMO . . . .

Many international routes, and some longer domestic routes operate once a day. There's NO WAY they're gonna allow EVERY SINGLE J seat on these routes, where many J seats are sold, to be able to be filled with a pax on a Main Cabin fare, which is what your scheme - in effect - does.

I think the chance you have enough Diamond PAX on this day and on this particular flight to take ALL J seat is very low.

Even this happen! This mean you have lots of Diamond customers, and all this Diamond customers must have expense $$$$$ to Delta before.

We can limit this option to 1x for each diamond (each year) also.

Sure, at 750K redemption value.. or close to the cost of a ticket assuming 1 cent per SkyPeso.

I'd like to see 2 "regular" GUCs offered to Platinums as a Choice Benefit.

DL is not going to give away any J seats they think they can sell. That's kind of the end of the story.

The only logical argument to do so is for loyalty, but unless other airlines do this, I don't think you can really make that argument.

You are saying DL should give up say up to $14000 in revenue ( 2x RT TPAC) to upgrade a passenger from a lowest coach fare to a J fare, because they are a Diamond??? When they might not even give that revenue to Delta all year? Yeah right.

They already give 4 x GUC...
As I write this will reduce the # of GUC by 50%...
Did you think EACH upgrade from a paid ticket cost 7,000$ to Delta ???
I just check a D1 from JFK to PVG, 2 way cost 3.5K (in one month)... and from your calculation an ONE WAY upgrade cost (from a paid already ticket) the double of an 2 way D1... ?

No it won't. Many people <myself included> would still choose the current type of GUCs and take 4 of 'em. They work just fine for me.

What's actually going to seriously reduce the number of GUCs out there, is, the TOTAL SLAUGHTER of the Diamond herd, via the insane raising of the Amex waiver!

Delta doesn't even fly JFK to PVG nonstop so they are not even very competitive in that market. And yet the cheapest business fare I can find on this route with a month advanced purchase with regular TPAC business travel dates is around $10K.

10K for TPAC is a very normal advanced booking TPAC fare. A high demand trip like Saturday -> Thursday/Friday TPAC fare booked only a week or two in advance is easily 15K on some routes. This is a typical example - it's not cherry picked; look at the ICN route as another example. These are not even Full J fares - J "last seats" often run 20-25K+.

Yes but they restrict availability. You are suggesting they take that restriction away. That's the problem.

Delta limits their expense by restricting inventory.

If they give up seats that they would otherwise sell, yes. They lose the entire difference between the economy ticket and J. Which, for some routes, can be that high.

When I say 'up to $14k', surely you understand that it is possible for you to find a cheaper fare without my statement being false. But maybe not, nothing much else you say makes sense.

Your whole premise is looking at things from what you want as a passenger, it makes no business sense whatsoever.

Yep, solve that problem right away. I know loyalty is like death by a thousand cuts, but that one is a big cut!

JFK -> PVG
27 March JFK -> DTW DL4032 (F, First), DTW ->PVG DL583 (Z, Delta one)
04 April PVG-> DTW DL582 (Z, Delta one), DTW -> JFK DL896 (F, First)
Total: 3,252.11 USD (on delta.com)

These are not business travel dates (Tuesday and Wednesday) and that is greater than a month out. Why are you trying to pick and choose discount fares when you said get rid of fare class restriction? You could already successfully use a GUC on most routes if you're willing to fly on non-business travel times, so why are you looking at these times?

As soon as you pick real travel dates (e.g., Sat->Thur) the prices go up to 8K. If closer in booking, it's higher. Do you know why those prices are high those dates? Because Delta will sell those seats at that price. Cherry picking dates in a market where Delta is non-competitive (no DL nonstop when nonstops exist) when b-class cabins are empty (Tuesday and Wednesday) is silly.

Maybe if you constrain your "super-GUCs" to Z fare availability I could see it as a not-so-crazy-option - although routes with heavy Z fare availability are likely to already be GUC-able today. But if you think for one second Delta is going to let you get unrestricted upgrades on seats that regularly go for 10K+, you are crazy.

But no one is going to cash a x2 GUC in for a $3,500 flight. They are only going to do so for the really expensive ones. The bigger thing to look for with that is the difference between Y and J.

The "nightmare" scenario for DL is the last second cheap Y but expensive J flights...such as SEA/HKG leaving 2/23 (tomorrow!) and coming back 2/28. $966 for Y $9,139.81 for J! Sure someone could still do that now and WL for the J seat, but having to wait till the airport to clear the J seat gives DL the absolute Maximum time to sell it, and it would have just gone empty and DL isn't out much. But if x2 GUC's could just clear right away, then you're looking at a large potential loss if someone would have purchased that seat.

I don't think a 'super' GUC is a viable thing or ever going to happen... but I also highly doubt DL is really selling tpac seats for 15k+. They have a lot of corporate contracts and those seats are going for significantly less than the rack rate that you get by doing a search.

Sure, you'll get a 15-20% discount off of the purchase price but you're still talking 12K. I just priced the NRT route (Sat->Fri) on a corporate discount and it is 12.9K. Unless you're referring to route-specific contracts, but that is a different beast with different costs and implications and rarer.

Delta definitely sells TPAC seats for 15K. Just like they sell TATL seats for 7-10K. I've bought plenty of them (more TALT than TPAC).

Boy I hope this actually happens but I think it will only slightly thin the herd. Do you think that many people actually rely on the waiver? I have got the waiver every time but I have never actually needed it.

This. GF and me love them. As long as you are somewhat flexible you are able to fly Delta One TATL for 300+ over here ^. Way better then the old SWU's where you had to buy at least M fares.
Can imagine that certain destinations are more difficult but as long as you are willing to play with routes and dates they are one of the greatest perks. Especially with the devalution of SM every year.

Good for you. You must fly trans-Atlantic. I had 2 GUC's not even clear at the gate after booking months in advance across the Pacific.

I travel from Montreal to China (my actual travel date is 16 Fev to 24 Fev), NOT most peoples travel YOUR "real travel date".
Even if I travel outside YOUR travel date, It is very difficult to use the GUC on DTW-PVG, (or most USA-China route).

I agree with you about some date are more "busy" or fare are more high. I am ready to departure a day before (and come back a day after) if I can have a good business class ticket and be able to use the actual GUC.

My point with the GUC+, is to OPEN MORE availability for many route. You have good points about Delta can not give to the GUC+ wide open (all class).
But I think it is a middle solution between the 2 extremes.
Why not doing same as the Skybonus ??? you can redeem your points with skybonus TPAC certificate (Z), you can also use MORE POINTS to have more class available (I). Why not doing the SAME with GUC+ ???

Why not ???
If I can not use the GUC (Some PAX did not take the 4 x GUC, because they can not find availability on TPAC/TATL route).

What is better ... have 2 x GUC+ I can use easily or select 1 x 25K miles???

Forgive my hyperbole, but not many people are going to cash in x2 GUC for what is going to amount to a Z class fare when it's possible to cash them in for a J class fare last minute.

And of course it's better for us with the uberGUC, but it's a little TOO much better for us for DL's taste. If they're cashed in for x1 $15K ticket that's more value than a lot of DM's (prior to the upcoming MQD waiver change) provide to DL in a year. And I know that's not the true cost to DL, but in terms of lost revenue potential it is. DL is never going to go for what amounts to a free upgrade to J with last seat availability. The reason the GUC's now don't clear is specifically to avoid a completely sold out J cabin well in advance. They want/need those last minute seats to be available for clients that either need to change their flight at the last minute or need to purchase that last minute full J ticket due to whatever emergency. The last thing DL wants to do is tell someone willing to shell out $15K for a ticket that there's not room for them, and multiply that by 10 if the that seat went to someone with a low bucket Y ticket that they just turned certs for.

Could there be a middle ground, possibly, but by letting the GUC's go all the way to the gate, it's really pretty close to one. While not perfect, most people who fly enough to be a DM should be able to recognize when flights are the busiest and when it's likely to clear and when it isn't.

The question is why WOULD they?

Because if you use GUC+ instead of normal GUC, you have 2 x less usage (you will have only 2 x GUC+ instead of 4 x GUC).
Delta save 50% of GUC with PAX using this...

I return to you the same question,,, WHY Delta do this with Skybonus certificate in this case.. ???

Delta don't SAVE anything by having less GUC in rotation! They restrict inventory for GUC to only routes where the seat is expected to go empty. So people with GUC move to those flights, or GUC don't get used.

GUC is NOT the limiting factor here. It's inventory, controlled by Delta.

I don't know anything about Skybonus so not able to answer your question, but you still haven't provided any good reason why DL should do this.

I have an even split of trans-Atlantic and non-trans-Atlantic. I have gotten GUC upgrades to PEK, PVG, JNB, and SYD and a plethora of European destinations. China cleared beforehand and a few European ones. Most have gone to the gate which is more than fine for me. An opportunity for an empty D1 seat is a heck of a lot better than the 99% of people on my flight who don't have that opportunity.

There is nothing more exciting than staring at the monitor during pre-boards for ATL-JNB and seeing your name pop up as cleared. It certainly beats anything I have ever done in Vegas. Before you say "But I can't handle that flight in coach"...there are about 254 people that do it every day and live to talk about it.

As it is, GUCs cost Delta almost nothing; they're used to fill seats that would otherwise go empty. Allowing them to take seats that would be sold for thousands of dollars (whether $3.5K or $14K) still costs Delta thousands of dollars for no benefit other than to make you happy.

I did have a proposal that some people at Delta liked (it might happen, but I'm not holding my breath): instead of RUCs and GUCs, just give out Delta Upgrade Certificates. Domestic upgrades cost one certificate, international cost two. They might also choose to lower the cost of PS.

25K miles cost Delta about $250. The GUC+ you propose would cost them thousands. That's a very easy choice.

FIXED that for'ya:

Int'l J seats RARELY go out empty ;) ;) ;).

The OP's newfangled version of GUC would seriously PEEVE OFF nonrevs.

No, it wouldn't. Any seat a nonrev might get would first go to a paying pax using an ordinary GUC. So by reducing the total number of GUCs, OP's version would help non-revs. (And by displacing paying pax, it would help nonrevs even more.)

Displacing paying passengers wouldn't help nonrevs in this case since it would only occur when the cabin is sold out.

Well, actually, it might help them a bit, since there's still the possibility of no-shows in a sold-out cabin. In this case, if a paying pax had been displaced, there would be one less GUC on the waitlist.

Inventory is a business decision that DL has the right to control. I have no issue with that.

What I have an issue with is that the program does not work properly.......confirming at booking eliminates this problem

Well, maybe

I do understand the logic you're using. It just seems to me that, if GUCs had instant guaranteed confirmability, a lot more would be chosen, and ultimately used, particularly on last minute bookings. I think that many families going on vacation would want to confirm UG space in advance, and wouldn't want to risk not getting the UG or not sitting together, so, they wouldn't choose the current GUCs as a Choice Benefit, and many go to the gate and probably go unused, and I'd bet, many are forgotten and simply go to waste.

Somehow, the little voices in my head can see it both ways. :D The bottom line is, that, it ain't NEVER gonna happen! Too much revenue at risk.

I think the simplest answer is that, Delta will never give you something YOU WANT - if it costs them. So, the argument that they should offer us something for free just because it might make us feel a little better about our "so called" Loyalty, when it CLEARLY would cost them some lost J sales, doesn't fly.

They will confirm at ticket purchase if the seat is available.

They do have instant confirmability, if the seat is available (for GUC upgrades). They don't when they expect to be able to sell the seat for money.

Why do so many people think that FC upgrades are the only reason to participate in a FFP?

For at least one person (me), those upgrades are firmly in the bottom half of my priorities, as I do indeed WFBF.

I should've said - - -

Guaranteed confirmability EVERY SEAT / EVERY FLIGHT, as the OP wants.