I don't believe that GAs have full discretion over who gets the OPUPs. My understanding is that on DL (unlike some airlines that do deliberately give OPUPs to kettles and new FFers to their programs) the order is supposed to be based on elite status then fare code, except that those who have ordered special meals are excluded. Groups can be passed over if fewer coach seats are needed. I've also heard that those with lap infants are not supposed to be OPUPed. They might also pick someone for an OPUP if another passenger with special needs can be put into the seat, for example a bassinet seat, but this would be more of a judgment call. I don't know how sitting in EC might be considered and whether there would be an attempt to move elites into vacated EC seats, but probably not to save time.

While I have not seen this op-up policy in writing, GAs (both Delta employees as well as contract personnel) at multiple stations (both international and domestic) have confirmed to me that that is how op-ups on Delta are supposed to work.

Actually, I had the opposite experience. On 4/21 the nonstop from JFK to BCN looks to be oversold in Y... according to the display screen anyway. When I approached the GA about my odds for an OPUP, she said it was up to the lead GA but she took down my info. As I was walking away, I overheard the "lead" GA tell another passenger that she can process OPUPs at her desecration and that status doesn't matter. Well, I flew in Y as I had contracted...

Supposed to work and actually working are two very different things, of course. I was told by GAs that there are "recommendations," not rules, and GAs have a final say in who is OP-UPed and who is not. Not processing SWUs properly is a different story but, again, in the oversell situation, GAs can do pretty much as they please: the goal is to get as many people on the flight as possible, avoid paying out too much, and get the plane out on time. The company will close its eyes to everything else.

Anyway, I have written a polite inquiry to Delta. Will let you know what happens.

Precisely! A spectacular opportunity to exercise discretion and bend the rules to their benefit ("desecration" was a perfect typo! ;))

The inconsistency with such things (GA not following DL protocol) really make it frustrating for us as a passenger.

For PMNW DL employees, they seem to go by elite status then fare paid, not necessarily class (though typically correlates).

Good luck in this...i hope you get extremely generous compensation (really, to me, the only just compensation is they should allow you to treat a future sub-YBM fare as if it were a YBM fare and then you regain the upgrade priority you lost on another flight where you wouldn't have such priority). If they only give you miles or MQMs, the wrong is not really being remedied at all.

Also, if you do end up engaging in discourse, see if you can find out what the status and fare basis was of the numerous upgraded passengers. I am especially curious about the guy who was seated in 17F and then moved up by the gate agent with a new boarding pass at last moment before door closed.

DL Response
 

Got a response from DL. The usual "we value your business as a top customer" stuff, but the most surprising thing: "your upgrade cleared, we are sorry you were given inaccurate information."

Now, I know that it did not clear, that my BP was not changed, and that class paid/flown shows as B/B. Only reinforces what I wrote before: in an oversell situation, GAs can do (and actually do) as they please. They have pretty much unlimited discretion about the upgrades and can move anyone up, regardless of the status, fare paid, etc. In my case, the actual upgrade list was ignored and the GAs got their buddies moved to BE. While my suspicions remain just that for now, circumstantial evidence is aplenty, and this is not the first occasion: knowing a GA or offering a small token of appreciation will go a long way, certainly farther than your status or fare basis. We don't like to talk about it, it makes us uncomfortable and does not smell right, but this is how the world works after all. Most of the world anyway. Sorry if this sounds cynical, but the facts speak for themselves.

Safe holiday weekend travels (or, maybe, none of it, enjoy your time on the ground!)

This story is ridiculously sick.

Basically, you wrote in to complain that you did not get what you paid for, and Delta's response was that Delta is sorry you did not get what you paid for -- you were supposed to receive it, but Delta employees stole it from you.

Did Delta offer to return to you what Delta employees stole from you? Either Delta should (a) refund to you the difference between the discounted fare that was available when you bought your ticket and the B fare you paid -- OR -- (b) allow you to use an SWU for an international upgrade when you travel on a fare class below YBM. Otherwise, you paid for something and Delta says they gave it to you, but an employee stole it and too bad -- which can't possibly be allowed to stand in civilized society.

The difference in price between a YBM fare and a discounted fare not eligible for the waiting list is ginormous. The ONLY reason to pay such an enormous differential when the lower fare is available is to get the upgrade or get on the waiting list for the upgrade. Delta basically is charging people huge amounts of money to get on a waiting list, and then Delta's employees are stealing from the people on the waiting lists. That is serious money being stolen -- felony serious. If this situation is being permitted by Delta management, then Delta management is either corrupt or congenitally incompetent.

Maybe i am misunderstanding the story here -- but if i have it right -- this is not run of the mill usual outrageous.....it is honestly truly outrageous.

I feel for you, OP.

While I have only been to Moscow once, about 2 years ago, here are some experiences I have had recently on other flights across the pond.

First off, I should say that I no longer choose SWU's as a Choice Benefit. I can buy BE usually for less or only a few dollars more than a YBM fare, so why bother. (Others have often reported this here.) I either pay for discounted BE or I fly on a T fare.

So I was on an ATL-MUC flight a few months ago with a purchased BE ticket and leisurely strolled to the gate 30 minutes before departure, only to hear the GA call out to some obvious NRSA's that he had "upgraded them"! I walked up to him and said "I am a DM, have you upgraded me also?" His response was "We don't upgrade on international flights. Can I see your Boarding Pass please?" To which I responded "You just told those people you have upgraded them. Why did you not upgrade me as a DM?" When I showed him my BP, he said "You are already in BE" and I said that is not the point. "You told them they were upgraded, and you told me that DL does not do upgrades. Which is it????" While I have nothing against NRSA's taking advantage of their employee benefits for free SA travel, I have a real problem with putting them in BE ahead of putting a paying customer up there!

In March of this year, I flew ATL-FCO on a T fare. I knew the flight was overbooked (Y0 that morning) and so I asked at the SkyClub in ATL, about 2 hours before departure, what the status was. The agent said it was indeed overbooked in Y, but everyone had not checked in yet. Fair enough, I went back to work on my emails and checked again later at T-1 hour. The same agent got a really suprised look on her face, and said "Wow, you have already been upgraded. Here is your new BP!"

For my return trip to the US, I was booked on Alitalia for FCO-BOS and then DL for BOS-DTW. The DL upgrade cleared at the window with no problem. The AZ flight was showing a lot of available seats in all fare classes, right up to the night before departure. When I got up the next morning, I checked availability again before heading to the airport. I was shocked to see that overnight things had changed to Y0! Turns out that there was a last minute equipment change, and there were now far less seats in Y than originally planned! At check in, I asked about a possible upgrade, and they said it was indeed possible but would be processed at the gate. So after a little time at the AZ Lounge in Rome, I stroll to the gate just in time to hear them announce 6 passengers who should check with the agent for "additional information". Every seat in Y was full, there were a lot of empty seats up front, but I found myself in one of them!! Bottom line, $890 ticket scored me Business Class in both directions. :D

I certainly don't expect this to happen every time, but it is certainly quite nice when it does. This particular trip was a grueling week in Italy, and the upgrades made it a whole lot better.

And I agree that the OP got HOSED!!!

I am sorry, I omitted one thing -- I was compensated. I should put "compensated" I quotes because all I was given is 9,500 miles. Other than that, the story is accurate to the letter, no exaggerations, nothing hidden/no information withheld, so you understand it correctly, I think. I agree thatit is outrageous. Of course, the official position is that it was a mistake, nothing else (I am not surprised by that; even if there's any kind of internal investigation, the outcome will not be shared with me. Standard for any large company). Formally speaking, no policies were probably violated though. Oversell is a special situation.

Totally outrageous. That is less than the cost of the OW UG you were denied. I would escalate.

You may have a problem with it but that is DL's policy. Space-available UGs are a stated benefit of NRSA travel, whereas DL does not offer complimentary medallion UGs on TATL flights. The GA did the proper thing according to DL's policy and had no need to answer to you. If you think the policy should be different (and I agree, it should be), register your complaint with DL's management, don't take it out on GAs who are actually following policy.

I have no problem with EMPLOYEEs getting the upgrade; giving it to a buddypass flyer ahead of a PM or DM is quite another thing.

According to DL policy and the T&Cs of the buddy pass, they are entitled to space-available UGs. Medallion pax are not entitled to UGs on int'l flights. Simple as that. I'd like a complementary UG on all my TPACs too, but I'm not entitled to one. If you disagree with the policy and it's important enough to you, write to DL management.

You got totally hosed and 9500 miles is very poor compensation. I would be livid.

That said, I fly DL 30/31 regularly, at least 25 R/Ts in the past 5 1/2 years, with maybe 30% of that as Z-ups but the rest in Y. Only once or twice have I flown with an M+ fare not confirmed into Z at the time of booking since the rules were changed to allow DOD upgrades, and it happened to work out fine.

I have also received 5 or 6 op-ups on this route, including my last two flights (this past March and December) on DL 31. I can only recall one time I didn't get an op-up where it seemed like Shena was involved (AFAIK Expertflyer showed Y0 the morning of departure, and I was a DM on I believe a K fare). There was a time at SVO when they would give you the upgrade at check-in, but now it seems to be processed at the gate. So I'm not sure I would single out this route as a particular problem.

Still, I hope you will escalate. I have half a mind to send this thread to DL myself and explain that it's the fear of shenanigans like this that kept me from buying an M (rather than my U) fare on this Wednesday's DL 31.

What a story! It really is inexcusable. I missed the original thread/discussion, just caught up now. I used to fly this route 4-5 times a year, still do, though not necessarily on Delta.

I am not very surprised by the story though, and agree with the OP's take that oversold flights are handled differently by GAs than normal ops, and all standard procedures/waitlists can be overridden. This is likely what happened to the OP. I do not know why the GA did what s/he did and what favors s/he received, but things do happen, from a cup of coffee and a dessert for overlooking an overweight bag or an extra piece of luggage to a small gift for an upgrade.

I flew myself in EC on this very route on an M fare in November, also an oversold flight, also many OPUPs, non-revs and others, but not a DM on M/SWU. Seems like this was not a singular occurrence.

The additional loopholes opened up with the recent changes in Delta's practice to hold the upgrades until the last minute at the gate, even when it is SWU and when there are plenty of seats in BE available (often 50% load, and the SWU waitlists still do not clear). Anything that is done at the gate is more prone to ... mistakes ;). Had to take less convenient flights on partners from Europe the other month even though DL's BE was 80% or so open. The upgrade did not clear even 6-7 hours before the flight, with the J9C9D9I9S9 cabin. Wonder if it went empty or was filled with the "usual clientele."

Sorry OP, what happened is not fair, but c'est la vie at Delta. Why would you fly DL to Moscow anyway, it still puts old and dilapidated 763s with those lousy seats on this quite long fight? One of the reasons I left it and either fly SU or UA. At least you get fully flat seats on UA and can UG to First, which is quite nice. SU is much, much nicer than DL now too.

BTW, not to keep harping on this point, but this is why I NEVER buy an M fare unless I can confirm and re-ticket the SWU/mileage UG IMMEDIATELY at the time of purchase.

I would give OP a break on this. I think everybody understands your point here, and anybody who thinks about it would prefer what you are saying. I personally feel very strongly the same way you do.

However, sometimes in life and flying, there are times when you get stuck in unavoidable jams. For example, what if you buy your ticket with UGs confirmed and then you are later required to change dates? What do you do then? Of course you do your best, but sometimes you have to chance it on the waitlist. Also, sometimes you cannot confirm the upgrade in both directions when you are doing your ticketing, but you can confirm the direction that you really need. What do you do then? It may be a close decision when you can lock in the UG one way and know you have a superb chance of getting in off the waitlist on the other direction. I do not like going on the waitlist one bit, but I recognize that sometimes it is simply unavoidable. The fact that going on the waitlist is not a preferable practice should not in any way be held against OP.

In theory, if you have the YBM fareclass, a high status rank, and you can see a lot of J9 on expertflyer, it should be a pretty reasonable gamble that you will get in off the waitlist. And, by the way, Delta should want customers to be thinking this way because it maximizes revenue for Delta. Customers who only pay YBM when the upgrade is guaranteed are less profitable for Delta than ones who are willing to gamble on the waitlist. Of course a waitlisted customer can lose out on the gamble because Delta sells all those open seats to customers paying Delta for them and that is a risk the waitlist customer takes. The risk that seems unreasonable and unfair for a Delta customer to take is that they will miss the waitlist chance not because Delta sold those seats but rather because Delta's employees preempted Delta corporate and instead sold those seats for their own account instead. This is akin to a cashier who pockets customers payments rather than putting them in the cash register -- it is the reason you see sings at stores and restaurants at airports that say your purchase is free if the cashier doesn't give you a receipt.

To me, we customers should not be the only people outraged here. Delta (and its shareholders) should be outraged. Delta spends a lot of shareholder money to have business class seats -- they are Delta corporate assets. Delta is in the business of selling these company assets either as business class seats or as upgrades. Why on earth should Delta employees be allowed to take those corporate assets and sell them for revenue into employees' pocket instead of the company coffers? It is in Delta's corporate interest to make the waitlist appear fair. If everybody thinks the waitlist is a sham, then Delta is losing out on profits it can make by selling the YBM fares to more passengers. Shareholders should be up in arms about this -- it is employees stealing and selling company assets.

I do not mean to be harsh to the poster I am replying to here...I just really think that, in the situation presented in this thread, the OP did absolutely nothing wrong and there should not be any suggestion that the OP brought this situation onto him or herself.

My comment wasn't directed at the OP, it was just a general comment. There is an ongoing discussion in the forum about this, whether waitlisting is a good idea or not. OP got hosed, and those kind of shenanigans is one reason I don't waitlist.

Two questions here for people who are more knowledgeable than me on this topic --

1) Why should the scenario be different in an oversell situation as the OP accepts? I am not so sure I agree with the OP about this. I understand that domestic flights and international flights are very different for upgrade purposes, BUT, in the narrow circumstance of oversell situations with the need for operational upgrades, why should the two situations be handled differently? I cannot imagine in a domestic flight with oversell and operational upgrades that the pre-established waitlist is simply ignored or disregarded. I would also imagine if that waitlist was ignored or disregarded in such a situation people would seriously be up in arms about it. Again, I understand that international and domestic upgrades are different animals, but I do not see why those differences should create a different scenario in how to handle operational upgrades in an oversell situation. Maybe somebody can enlighten me as to what I am missing here.

2) Why are international upgrades handled so opaquely? It seems that Delta preposterously suggests that somehow the issue in this thread was caused by inaccurately communicated information. Putting aside the blatant falseness of Delta's statement, the possibility for such miscommunication is entirely created by Delta. For domestic upgrades and standby, everything is handled very transparently, above board, and in the full glare of public view. For international flights, the whole thing is done as opaquely as possible. Why does Delta choose to be so opaque about something so valuable and important to its customers and shareholders? In domestic flights, you can just sit in the waiting area and see extremely detailed information about who is on waitlist for upgrades who is on waitlist for standby what are the relevant priorities, then you can see who gets what once they clear the lists and who still remains on the lists. It seems to me this can be shown for international too (including operational upgrade priority -- If there is a corporate policy about it). It seems to me that if the international upgrade situation were not so opaque; there would not be room for what happened on this flight to happen (or it would be a lot harder to do or take a lot more brazenness for the employees to steal from the corporation like this). Again, maybe I am missing something here -- wouldn't making all the relevant information public be in the interests of customers and shareholders? The only people who should be against this publicity would be employees who want to use the darkness to cover the theft from the corporation (and customers). By the way, if Delta doesn't do this, there is a self-help way that people here on Flyertalk can do it. All that needs to happen is to create a sticky thread for suspicious opup cases....then as soon as people see a situation like the flight in question...just post it in the sticky thread...then somebody with information about the flight (needs to be within 24 hours) can do the post mortem and let people know here what really happened. Even if those people do not speak up, other passengers can speak up like happened here. I was on the flight that started this thread...I was on a K fare, am diamond medallion and a million miler...I was fortunate enough to get an economy comfort seat. So, we can confirm that at least two diamonds did not get operational upgrades that were doled out. Something lost in all of this is that not only did OP not get the upgrade, the OP did not even get an economy comfort seat. This is particular egregious in light of my report that an upgrade from and reallocation of economy comfort seat 17F was performed at the very latest moment on this flight before the door closed.

I am not an expert, of course, but I fly enough and try to learn from DL people when I can about the internal policies and procedures. So, while this is not an expert answer, you may consider it a semi-informed opinion.

Regarding confirming Z UG at the time of purchase, I try to do it when possible, and it would be great if DL released at least some Z inventory on all flights, but the current trend is to leave it to the gate to handle. The ability to UG using SWU at the gate was a welcome improvement, but it should not have come at the price of virtually eliminating advance Z upgrades; yet that's exactly what we have now. I agree with HongKonger that it is a bad gamble, but sometime there is simply no other alternative. I am amazed that DL does that on even very empty flights. They can't be hoping to fill the BE cabin with 15-20+ people in the last hours, so I am not sure what DL's rationale is.

I also agree that international flights should not be handled any differently from domestic. I don't want to accept what happened (and happens) as a simple mistake, but I am sure that DL will formally respond to any inquiry that "it was an operational necessity." Sine there are no published policies regarding waitlist and UG priority for such situations, our arguments will not go very far. There are no UG lists as such on intl flights except for SWUs on high fares, and those are not many. All the standbys are usually NRSAs/buddy passes, and they can fly in BE if space is available. In an oversell situation, GAs priority is to get as many people of the flight as possible without paying too much in compensation. Who is upgraded and why is indeed at the discretion of the GA. There is a multitude of explanations a GA can give if questioned, anus at most might get a finger wag. That wild be difficult to pull off on a domestic flight, oversold or not. I think there is no explicit corporate policy about OPUPs, everything that I ever heard from GAs I personally know is at the level of recommendations. That OPUPs sometime happen not in any particular order is true: on the same flight a few months ago I noticed that a few people were upgraded and I was not (I was on a Q or H fare, so no SWU), asked why, the guy told me "they asked first." You know full well this was a BS answer, but I doubt my arguing wild have changed anything. On the last flight, the one that started this thread, I should have kicked and screamed, and would have probably gotten my UG though. But it should never come to that, and I am sure things work as they should more often than not. Again, I use LAX as an example, which usually functions pretty well.

But, overall, I think it is the general DL attitude which has now changed from "we need you" to "you don't have many choices, so you'll come to us anyway." It is quite noticeable , especially during the last two years. Plus JFK culture. Don't want to make blanket statements, but it has among the least caring ground teams among all the hubs, and I fly though it dozens of times each year.

So, the more vocal we are, both on this board and with Delta about their shenanigans, the more likely the changes will come. Meanwhile, do not make the mistake I made and just accept what you are told as a fact. Fight for it, and it just may pay off!

Yeah, I don't know why I flew Delta to Moscow. I was hoping for a new plane, I guess - and they were flying 764 on this route before. But SU is absolutely great now, I tried it and loved everything about it, from the seat to the food to the service. I see fewer and fewer reasons to stay with Delta lately. I am really tempted to give AA a try. Bankruptcy does ot scare me off at all, and the network is adequate for most of my travels. I will easily get 300k MQM this year, most on B+ fares, so should be able to get AA top status pretty quickly.

For what it is worth, I am flying on DL31 SVO>JFK today (this is the paired flight to the one OP was posting about -- DL30 goes to Moscow and DL31 comes back from Moscow to JFK). Flight was clearly overbooked monitoring on Expertflyer....and, at Online Checkin, I was notified that the flight was overbooked and they were looking for volunteers to take a different flight. At the registration desk, I could not have been greeted more friendly and courteously (and the airport is jammed....lines everywhere) and was promptly very nicely given an Op-Up. Thank you very much Delta, and thank you very much to the SVO ground staff. In my experience over the last 5 or 6 years, that SVO ground staff is miles ahead of the JFK ground staff. Even though the experience of the OP at JFK was truly disillusioning, one cannot tar all Delta staff with the bad actions of a few bad apples at JFK. This is not to excuse anything that happened in JFK in connection with the original post.....just reporting that in Moscow, the system seems to work the way the corporate policy says it should (or so I believe)....for the record I am Diamond (1 million miler) and was travelling on a very low fare basis (i forget exactly what it was, but safe to assume among the lowest).

I tried to do this today with two agents, and could not get a proper answer out of either one. I'm Platinum on a B fare, waitlisted to use SWU for CPH-JFK tomorrow. The agent just insisted that I was "priority waitlisted" for upgrade, but when I tried to press for the code, she just kept reiterating that I was coded correctly. I then asked what the 4-digit code beginning with 'U' was, and she said "UP03" and had no idea what UP2B was.

When I spoke to the next agent, who was a supervisor, she told me there was no code, just that I was properly waitlisted. I finally asked about UP2B and she claimed no knowledge of this for international flights, and said it was only valid for domestic flights when they needed to distinguish between a person waitlisted for an SWU upgrade vs. complementary upgrade.

This is interesting because when I initially waitlisted for the SWU upgrade, about a week ago, I asked if the agent wanted the SWU number and she said no, that if Z became available and it cleared, they would take it at that time. So my SWU certificate number was not annotated for this flight at all. Now that it is one day out and it looks like it may not clear before check-in, I asked them to enter one of my SWU numbers which they finally agreed to do today.

Should I be calling back tonight or early tomorrow, before heading to the airport, to again ask if I'm coded UP2B? There are seven unclaimed seats in BE as of now.

JFK->SVO Sept 9 DL30 -- OpUp and Volunteer situation
 

I just checked in online to DL30 from JFK to SVO tomorrow (Sept 9) and was greeted with a vague message seeking volunteers to take an "alternative flight" in exchange for a voucher for "another flight." Furthermore, the wording of the offer was confusing as to whether a person could rescind their offer to volunteer if, upon learning the details, the alternative flight and/or voucher turned out to be unsatisfactory. I ended up declining to volunteer because I did not want to risk a perfectly acceptable flight and seat in exchange for something so vague that it could be anything.

However, the episode triggered some questions in my mind that perhaps the cognoscenti here know the answers to (apologies if these have already been answered elsewhere)

1) Volunteering -- If you put yourself on the list of volunteers, can you rescind your offer of volunteering and stick with your original flight and seat if you do not like what they offer you when you discover what the fine print is?

2) Parameters of offer -- are there any parameters about what the alternative flight can be or what the voucher can be? For example, will the flight get you in within 6 hours of your original plan? within 24 hours? Is the voucher good for any flight internationally? the same flight you agreed to forgo? Is fareclass an issue? for example, if i agree to get booted when a T fare is $500 can i use the voucher for a T fare on the same route when it is more than double that?

3) Impact on OpUp -- does the decision to place yourself on the volunteer list affect the priority of a person for being allocated an OpUp?

4) Post Mortem -- Is there a way to ask the people, with access to the relevant data, to post what ends up happening on this flight in terms of OpUp? In the past, people have been able to post the status of flyers who were upgraded at the gate and the status of flyers who "just missed" the OpUp. Given the history of this gate on this route as evidenced by this thread....it would be interesting to see what criteria the gate uses in awarding OpUps (I presume there will be OpUps since Delta is seeking volunteers and ExpertFlyer is showing J4 C4 D3 I2 S0 Y0 B0 M0 H0 Q0 K0 L0 U0 T0 E0 on the flight -- this is the same situation that was showing for the same route of the original posting).

1. Yes.

2. Voucher terms are disclosed at the time the deal is made.

3. Shouldn't.

4. Flight is quite oversold and only 4 BE seats remain.

A seatmap is not the best way to check the BE cabin as EF shows much fewer seats available.

I have only waitlisted for domestic and intra-Europe flights and would encourage you to call and/or tweet to make certain you are coded properly show space open up. I know that ATH-JFK on Monday that two BE passengers cancelled in the middle of the night before departure and their replacements were interesting as one was my seatmate.

Thank you very much.

If the flight is very much oversold, how are non-revenue tickets handled in such a situation? Presumably, oversold means there are more revenue tickets than there are total seats on the plane. Am assuming, if nothing changes, they will op up 4 economy passengers into the 4 BE seats and then bump volunteers to other flights. If that is the case, are non-revs not allowed on the flight? Can non-revs take the BE seats with more passengers getting voluntarily bumped?

Thanks again for answering and apologies for rewarding you with more questions.

International OpUps are opaque because they are NOT a published medallion benefit, and could cause DL a hassle when trying to get a flight out on time. If you want transparent, complimentary upgrades internationally, fly another airline.

Reporting back on what happened last week on my CPH-JFK SWU-waitlisted upgrade.

I called Delta Platinum line before departure for the airport, about 5 hours before flight time as EF was still showing 7 unclaimed BE seats and the upgrade didn't come through overnight, Z still showing 0. I was advised that my standby airport upgrade with SWU was correctly coded and that there were indeed many BE seats left, but I'd have to go to the airport and ask at check-in as they could not process the upgrade for me.

Arrived at the check-in counter 3 hours prior to flight time, and was the 2nd person in the Sky Priority queue to check in. When I advised that I was waitlisted for an SWU upgrade if a BE seat was available, the agent didn't have a clue what I was referring to, nor did her colleague who was stated to be the 'supervisor'. They could both look up my record and see the two entries for my flight, i.e. the B fare confirmed and the Z fare waitlisted, but had no idea what an SWU was, or a standby upgrade, etc.

The supervisor told the agent to call 'Ken' who was stated to be the Delta local rep, to ask him how to process my boarding pass using the Z coded line. At the other end of the phone, Ken told them that there was no Z availability and it could not be done. I explained that they no longer needed Z availability, that my standby upgrade should be processed as long as there was a BE seat available. I was advised that there was "thousands of dollars" of difference between the fare for a Z class up to a BE seat, and they certainly could not give me a BE seat.

After much, much begging, pleading and explanation on my part, they agreed to call the "Delta representative" on site at the airport. After discussion on the phone with her, where I again could tell from the one side of the conversation that it wasn't going well, I was told that this Delta rep would be at the gate one hour before flight time, and she would look into my request at that time.

Without a BE boarding card, I did not have access to the BE lounge, but used my Elite+ status to access the lesser Novia lounge where I called the Platinum line again. By this time, it was two hours prior to flight time. Initially, the Platinum desk agent told me that everything was coded right, there were still 7 unclaimed BE seats, and he was sure they'd process the upgrade at the gate - all said in a very optimistic and knowledgeable voice. When I explained to him my lack of faith that the CPH gate agents would come through, he put me on hold and made a call.

When he came back on the line, I could hear in his voice that he obviously was not so sure any more, as he did not sound so optimistic. He said that KLM agents were contracted to manage the Delta flights in CPH, and that it was up to the GA's discretion whether or not to process the upgrade. I asked him if it wasn't Delta's policy when a Platinum or Diamond elite is on the standby waitlist for a SWU upgrade, that it will be processed if there is a seat available, and that a BE seat should not go out empty if an elite is waitlisted to use an SWU? He said yes, that is the policy, however it is still the discretion of the KLM GA to do what she wants. I asked if these contracted KLM agents shouldn't be required to follow Delta's rules for a Delta flight, and he agreed they should, but that there was nothing DL could do if they didn't.

Before we hung up, about 1 hour 40 minutes prior to flight time, he confirmed that there were still many open BE seats.

I headed to the gate where the 'supervisor' agent with whom I had spoken at check-in saw me told me that the "Delta" representative had not yet arrived (about 1 hour 5 minutes prior to flight time), but that I should go ahead and proceed into the gate area and she would come and get me with my new boarding pass if it was processed. Note that at CPH, when you arrive at the gate, they scan your boarding pass and you are sent into a secure gate area where you wait until the aircraft is ready to board - so once you do this, the system shows you as 'boarded.'

I told her I did not want to do this as once I've 'boarded' I was concerned that my upgrade request would fall out of the system (plus once they had me out of sight and unable to approach the desk from inside the secure area, I knew I'd be out of mind), so she allowed me to wait in the outer gate area, where I actually was able to sit in view of her and the other GAs who were helping passengers with last minute requests (eg. different seat assignments, etc.). The "Delta" representative (who I now knew was really a KLM representative) never turned up, but the 'supervisor' GA finally called my name and gave me a BE boarding pass.

Once on board, I looked around BE and all BE seats were filled. I am guessing that there were many op-ups, as Y was completely full the prior day based on EF's seat map. Also, I doubt they sold 6 BE seats within 1 1/2 hours of the flight.

Ok, so at the end of the day, I flew in BE, but was it really necessary to put me through such agony for something that should have been straightforward? I am certain that a less persistent person would not have gotten the standby SWU upgrade as should be automatic under these circumstances. And I have a hard time believing that the other 6 BE seats were all filled by other Diamond / Platinum members using SWUs.

Another minor issue was that when I was confirmed in B fare and waitlisted, I had selected an Economy Comfort seat in advance, just to be sure I had it in case the BE upgrade did not come through. My seat choice was still showing on DL.com before I left for the airport (about 4 hours prior to flight time), yet when I checked in, I was given a boarding pass with a different EC seat assignment than my selected seat. And I know I was one of the first people to check in at the airport because when I arrived, they were still setting up the queue and passengers were not yet starting to be helped at the check-in desks. When I questioned the seat assignment on the initial BP given to me, the agent snapped at me that she didn't know what my original seat request was, but that this was now my seat.

I usually only buy Y/B/M if I can confirm Z at time of booking, and only once previously did I buy my own ticket with one leg waitlisted (which came through 3 days before departure). But this was a last-minute business trip with my work having to buy a B fare.

I don't know how most non-U.S. stations handle these, but I recommend ensuring your SWU upgrades are processed in advance, if at all possible, when travelling out of CPH.

I thought that SWUs and being able to upgrade on a YBM fare internationally are in fact a published medallion benefit. In fact, I thought customers paid Delta a premium for the chance to pay a certificate for such an upgrade, so I am not even sure if this type of upgrade is considered complimentary. This thread is about a flyer who paid for a B fare and offered an SWU and was waitlisted and then was bypassed by a bunch of operational upgrades. The operational upgrades are only relevant in this thread because operational upgrades were allowed to bypass a customer who paid Delta a premium for the chance to be on a priority waitlist for international upgrades. Delta admitted that what happened here was wrong. I was pointing out that if the process were not so opaque, the wrong that Delta itself admitted was perpetrated would have been a lot harder to pull off.

Very scary that you had to put in so much work for what I would have thought would have been rightly and smoothly yours if corporate policy were adhered to. I do not understand the reluctance to give upgrade priority to people who have paid the YBM fare and are offering an SWU over people on lower tier fares and without SWUs. I thought that whole bargain of the YBM fare and the SWU is that you are in fact supposed to have priority for the upgrade in exchange for the extra money you are paying....yet it seems that operational upgrades trump that priority.

This is just one of those threads that gets my blood boiling at Delta. Susan's experience is totally unacceptable, I seriously hope you write a letter to DL detailing what happened. Its absurd that the Z airport waitlist for intl flights is STILL not being handled properly with agents.

Ditto. This even happens in ATL, which REALLY gets my blood pressure up!

As suggested here, I wrote to Delta regarding my experience in CPH as described above. I condensed it, but after describing what happend, I asked for clarification of how the international standby airport SWU upgrade waitlist should work (for future reference), whether or not contracted staff at non-U.S. departure cities were required to follow Delta policies, and whether there were any plans to adequately train contracted staff who manage DL's non-U.S. departuers.

In addition, I asked what the status, fare class and reason was for upgrading ca. 6 other passengers ahead of processing my SWU. While I acknowledge that I cannot be 100% certain that all C passengers were not entitled to those seats ahead of me (Platinum on B fare waitlisted to use SWU), I would be surprised if 6 C seats were sold within 2 hours of departure, and I was told that I was the only passenger on the "priority upgrade" airport standby waitlist.

I received a very long reply from Delta, most of which I won't repeat as it is mainly "sorry for your experience, we value your loyalty" repeated throughout, but some key points that I find disconcerting are:

I never said that the agents at the Platinum Desk did not understand how the upgrade process works. Every agent I spoke to at the Platinum Desk during the few calls I made in the days leading up to the flight described the process exactly as I understood it should work. I only reported that the process I understood to be correct was not followed in CPH. Is the response implying that Delta thinks the information I was given by the Platinum Desk was wrong?

(Bolding mine) I know that all seats are not made available for upgrade prior to flight time / airport control. But I understood that a BE seat should not go out empty if there was a Diamond or Platinum member on standby waitlist to use a SWU while booked in an eligible fare class (unless there is an issue with meal availability or weight/balance).

And the fact was that no BE seats went out empty which I clearly stated, and I also clearly stated that I indeed flew in BE at the end. I questioned the process and the status of the others who cleared, apparently ahead of me, and which appeared to be op-ups (or may have been non-revs). Yet I never received a response about the status or fare class of the other last-minute clearings into BE.

Just found the whole response to be disturbing.

Unfortunately sounds like you just had an agent responding that pieced together parts of different scripted/canned response templates and didn't actually check into anything.

In your situation, I would reply to them (including both the initial message and their reply), and at the top (or in the Subject: header) ask that the message be reviewed by someone competent to understand English and what I wrote. (I might try printing it all out and sending it as snailmail to DL's executive offices instead; that would get more attention and perhaps more likelihood of a competent reply.)

I know that such a strategy works against phone companies that try to overbill me. I don't know what effect it would have on Dullta.

Sounds very disturbing. Thanks for reporting back. If understood correctly (a big if), it sounds like Delta is saying that OpUps ARE entitled to upgrades ahead of a flyer on a YBM fare with an SWU if no seats HAD BEEN MADE available in Z class AS OF THE TIME the flight is released to the gate. Once the flight is released to the gate, it seems that the priority for upgrade is up to the gate's discretion and there is no guidance or priority on how that will work -- a flyer on YBM with an SWU may or may not be granted an upgrade.....but no guarantee of priority for such flyers over the gate's discretion to upgrade any other passengers for operational reasons.

Of course, Delta may operate any way it wishes to, but this seems strange to charge people so much of a premium for a YBM fare and offer the SWU certificates as if they are some sort of benefit or priority and then turn around and treat those flyers as a lower priority. The fact is, Delta purposefully does not release BE seats into Z class because it wants to save those seats to either sell at an even higher price or to use in case economy oversells. There is nothing wrong with that (in fact, I would say it is good business by Delta), but, if that is what happens, I cannot understand the justification to not require operation upgrades to be first offered to flyers on YBM fares with SWUs ahead of other flyers. It seems to me that those flyers paid Delta a lot of extra money (plus chose those SWU certificates over miles/credits/other benefits for something and it doesn't seem like that much to give back to them). Maybe this is all a big misunderstanding.

(this paragraph added by edit) By the way, if both economy and BE had empty seats, I suspect they would have upgraded you. It would seem insane not to allow you to upgrade your YBM fare with an SWU when there are empty seats in all cabins. It seems the problem at issue ONLY occurs when there is an oversell situation in economy. Assuming that to be the case, the question comes up, why should a flyer be deprived of something he or she would receive only because economy oversold. Basically, they are saying, the YBM/SWU upgrade is good as long as we do not oversell economy to lower fare customers.