UpGrade rules
 

I have lifetime platinum - but have not flown Delta for many years. This week i am flying them to Reno from Atlanta, Four days before departure I check to see if I have been upgraded. There are four seats left open in first, but no "upgradable" seats. I fly US Air now and get upgraded if there are ANY seats in first. Delta used to be that way many moons ago. When did they change?

Also if I fly with a family member (or friend in same reservation), they get upgraded with me 5 days before flight on US and old Delta. Now, I understand that they lowere you to 24 hours. Is this true? If so, what benefits do you get from being loyal to them?

If you're flying with a friend, your upgrade is processed at their medallion level. So if they have no status, you have no status. If they are silver, you are silver.

Delta reserves the right to try to sell those 4 seats left in first class. They may open them up at some point prior to the flight.

Currently Delta is working on hanging on to the customers who are currently loyal to them.

If you earned PM then you get those perks, but suggesting they should upgrade anyone who travels with you, 5 days out, forever.....DYKWIA

That's a little harsh on the OP. He/she said he/she hasn't flown on Delta in a while. The rules have changed since they last flew on them, and he/she just wanted to know what the rules were now.

BeatCal, welcome back to DL! The way Medallion upgrades work now is this (it really helps if you have an ExpertFlyer subscription, and maybe KVS will work too?): out of the # of F seats DL is selling, they will make a certain number available for upgrades by putting them in V inventory. At the T-5 day mark, all DMs and PMs are upgraded, until V runs out or no more DMs/PMs are seated in coach (exception being those with non-DM/PM companions). If V is left, the process is repeated at T-3 for GMs, and then T-1 for FOs followed by Medallions with non-status companions. Anyone left over gets to wait for a gate upgrade.

It's quite normal to see FOs not getting upgraded at the window, and GMs are seeing that more commonly as well. One of the highly-discussed topics on the DL forum is whether the revenue management department at DL is correctly holding back the right number of F seats to sell, versus being released for upgrades.

I hope that clears things up, and happy travels!

fully agree ^

Not to sound too snarky but if you have not flown DL in many years, you are not being loyal (present tense) to them. If you are 4 million miles, you are awarded annual platinum (they took the word lifetime out several years ago) for having been loyal. You need to give the young(er) bucks a chance, who are now giving DL their regular business.

DL only allows a limited number of seats in the F cabin for advance upgrade and always has in my almost 15 years as a medallion flyer. With the current SM program medallion benefits, all remaining F seats will be given out at the gate based on medallion level/fare paid. Your companion does, however, poision your platinum status for upgrade priority.

Unless you have DL split the record. If you are on a record separate from the others you are traveling with then your status will be preserved for the upgrades. Have DL link your records for the purpose of getting companion upgrades and your companion will hold your status for getting upgraded within the 24 hour priors to departure.

It shouldn't matter how the OP receives their PM status (as we know they give out Medallion status to people who have flown far less than the OP).

In any case, it is likely that the companion on your reservation caused you to not clear at your window. As was mentioned before a non-status companion on the same reservation will move you to clear at the 24 hour mark not the 5 day mark as you would with a PM. You could have split your record so that you cleared at the 5 day window why your companion cleared at 24 hours. This would have allowed at least one of you a better chance at sitting in F.

Delta has two different inventories for first, F and V. F is the total number of seats available while V is the upgrade seats. Generally F > V as Delta does not like to give the whole F cabin away until they have had every opportunity to sell those F seats to a last minute passenger. Also by saving a few for the gate it gives those Medallions who have changed flights or experience IROPs a chance at a gate upgrade.

Those who qualified for a lifetime status before DL management changed the policy are grandfathered under their lifetime status.

At least that is the current interpretation documented in an e-mail from DL.

Of course, "lifetime" is an ephemeral concept for DL management, as the Flying Colonels who were awarded "lifetime" Crown Room membership can attest.

nope Mine still says lifetime and i still get "called" "Colonel". Totally feel bad for the young bucks (not really) - Keeton, when you have the 4 million, you let me know,

Really miss the old days when as #4 one million miler in 1982, #3 - double million 1983 and #2 - 3 and 4 million (1987 and 1990) and Flying Colonel always upgraded and could upgrade as many people with me as there were seats. Got invited to CE Woolen's funeral with plane picking me up and Beebe flew to Chicago and gave me bottle of Crystal and upgrade to first on honeymoon to Europe. The Crown Rooms then were private rooms only for the FCs and invitees of local station. I think Shreveport had the last of them. Some guy sued American for not letting him in their VIT rooms and that started the FF and programs we know today.

However back to the present>

Note I said I was flying by self but asked about companion "if" They have lost my loyal business now. US Air and United and American all upgrade one based on level and one companion if there are ANY seats available - and the upgrade comes at MY level. When I travel for work, I usually buy a first ticket. When I fly on vacation with my wife or daughters, I do expect both to be upgraded.

Why would someone stay loyal to Delta when the other airlines treat their most frequent flyers better?

Thanks CMM
Stayinghome, you are correct on the "lifetime".

Those were fun days. Delta was "fun to fly". Still get referred to as FC, but AmEx card takes care of Crown Room or whatever they call it now.

one more history lesson
 

In the original CRs from Western (eg SLC), you could not use a computer or do "work". There was often (ie always) a poker or hearts game going.

A million miles in less than two years...that doesn't sound fun.

1) you are sounding snarky

2) the OP paid his dues. Too bad if it means you/I lose out on an UG or two. Maybe DL wouldn't even be around today if he and others didn't give DL the business they did back in the day.

Well, I know for sure UA doesn't upgrade at the particular upgrade window if NF or NC (which roughly correspond to DL's V inventory) are 0. Also, AA only gives unlimited upgrades to ExPlat members, which requires 100k EQM annually (I may be a little off on my understandings of their program). So, to be honest, it's not quite as rosy at the other airlines as you might think.

Also, you might want to consider quality of service rendered. From what I've seen on FT, the airlines with the most generous upgrade policies (DL and US) tend to have the worse FC offerings, speaking in terms of hard product. I've repeatedly heard that AA's FC is one of the better domestic cabins--particularly in terms of food, since they don't do "free" upgrades for many people. Of course, your opinion of each airline's cabin may differ, but it might be something to think about.

I'm a DL platinum, and I like it just fine. Yes, I do get upgraded pretty consistently (of course, that may change). But I also enjoy the other benefits like SkyPriority, free award redeposits (that has saved me several hundred dollars and given me great flexibility), the baggage allowance, almost guaranteed exit rows in case my upgrade doesn't clear, and quick customer service (although sometimes you have to work a little with them).

I'm not trying to be a DL apologist. They certainly have their issues, especially with mileage redemption. But I do find a lot of things that work for me, so I continue to fly Delta. I hope you find the place that works for you, and happy travels!

I think non elite companion should not be upgraded ahead of elites.

Well put! ^

Losing an u/g to a person who has paid their dues in one thing.

Losing an u/g to their non-elite companion is another thing.

I think the policy is fair. You are entitled to the u/g policy pertaining to your status. If you want a second upgrade, then you sacrifice your normal spot in the pecking order in return for a chance at 2 upgrades.

If a PM or DM wants a companion upgrade that badly (especially one who admittedly does not fly Delta much anymore), why not use a couple SWUs?

I gave up on SWUs as my choice benefit. They are useless for my desired application.

As a PM for several years and then a 'charter' DM I would like my companions to be upgraded with me. I don't fly with them often enough to bump too many other elites out of F (maybe two flights per year). They aren't much different than a paper PM or GM who got there on a single MR or CC MQMs and since they fly infrequently they have little impact to lower elites. Granting a companion 'one day' status once or twice a year would have little impact as well. However, I also recognize that non-top tier elites will have a different perspective.

Loyalty by definition is rewarded for previous activity, not current or projected activity. Someone who has flown 4MM deserves long term recognition and rewards for their loyalty regardless of their current activity.

Stopping Shena Nigans from getting upgrades then giving companion UG's at the higher elite's level would be a net improvement for all elites.

BeatCal I bow in reverence to your ability to sit on planes that much.

I think a whole new tier system of 3 or 4 jewel types should be used to devalue the lifers.

It's just like social security, nobody young will see a penny of it, and the elderly eat the young alive.

This is going to be fun to watch.

:rolleyes:

This was your choice to make, and you made it.

It seems to me, as a DM, if you want to account for companion upgrades you can:

1) Elect the SWUs and use them for that purpose.
2) Gift GM to your spouse and improve your position for u/gs
3) Take the 25k extra SMs and use those for mileage u/gs

Thus Delta provides options for those who want to upgrade companions outside the standard upgrade process. It's just a matter of whether someone values those options over others.

Agreed it was my choice. I have to give up choice benefits to make the DL FF system work for me. However my companion isn't always my spouse, I have taken one of my kids along once or twice as well. Never the whole crew, just one at a time. Last year there were 3 such trips out of 75. I used miles to 'buy' F for them.

As I evaluate the airline that gets my money, I take this into consideration. Last year I gave DL ~$35k. Not big money so I am a small fish. However DL has gotten less than $1k from me this year to date. I fly them when it is crazy not to but 90% of my money is going elsewhere. Does it make good sense for a FF program to drive a $35k per customer away in favor of keeping a $5k customer? Perhaps to DL it does.

Regardless if I use miles to put my companions up front or a better UG policy does it, they will be taking a seat in F out of the UG pool and some lower elites flies in the back. In the process they make me dislike the way their FF program works. Who is the winner here?

No Virgina (Ave), flying isn't as much fun as it used to be.

What definition is that? The frequent flyer programs are marketing programs to encourage your "loyalty" to select their airline over others. It is there to sell tickets, plain and simple.

The OP has been recognized for his past business by being granted annual platinum status and I certainly don't begrudge that. I'm closing in on my 2MM level and will be thankful for my annual GM status (until they pull the rug with some future "enhancement" :p)

What the OP doesn't realize is that this is not the "old Delta" with lavish perks, Flying Colonels, Royal Medallions etc. I miss it too as I was the beneficiary of companion upgrades from coworkers who were at that level 20 years ago - we had several people in our office back then that were top frequent flyers in DLs program. I also remember the 1000 mile minimum per segment, 1000 mile hotel/car rental bonuses and double bonus for F whether paid for or upgraded. All those miles counted towards MM status back then and a frequent traveler who worked the system could get MM relatively easily compared to today's MQM system. As a point of reference, I have well over 4.5MM program miles.

The realities of the business today do not support those kinds of perks. Where full Y fares for midweek travel were common when the OP was flying now finds LUT fares the norm as the legacies now comptete with LCCs who are fully entrenched in the domestic market. The perks have to be adjusted to match the revenue.

For thE first couple of years they counted bonus miles and miles transfered in, etc. For my first two million, probably did "real" 800,000

The young taste great with BBQ sauce

I can't speak to US, but I can tell you that neither UA or AA guarantee last seat available upgrades to people in advance. Both hold back some seats to sell on most flights and then distribute the unsold ones at the gate. So, there can indeed be F seats available to sell which will not be included in upgrade inventory.

There are substantial differences between the AA companion upgrade program and Delta's, but guaranteed last-seat availability in advance is not one of them.

"I like children. If they're properly cooked." -- W. C. Fields

(I will now return to my normal role as doting grandfather. :D)

true. But perhaps that is why people are not as loyal to it. "in the old days" while in Chicago, peers laughed at me as every trip was at least two segments and half a day while they flew AA or UA direct. We were loyal because they treated us like Gods. As a FC, every rule that could be broken, was.

Delta was known for always waiting for a passenger on the last connecting flight. The stews were great. Last week I flew back from Jamaca and the "oldhag" FA would not allow a newly wed couple in first to change seats to fly together and yelled at a passenger who offered to switch.

Now they have first seats open, but wont give them out until the airport? They may have made a couple of hundred on that seat, but they lost my 100k per year.

I'm not disagreeing with some of the stuff you said above, but as far as I know, every domestic airline does this (including UA, AA, AS, and probably US).

I think you are mistaken on this point. As a Chairman preferred flyer on US I can tell you that even if the entire first class cabin is empty there still have to be 'upgradable' seats before anyone is moved up. They don't just upgrade people because of empty seats.

There have been several occasions when the front is only half full and they still do not clear anyone on the upgrade waiting list. They are trying to sell the seats, which they are entitled to do. Usually if I don't get upgraded in advance I will end up getting called up to the podium before boarding commences.

i beg to differ. I am also chairman. at 7 days if there are ANY seats, I and companion automatically get upgraded. For the few times, the computer has not done it, a simple call does

BeatCal - I love to hear this stuff. When did you start flying? Looks like early 80's? What was your favorite plane?

It says it right there. "If an upgrade becomes available". Yes, the majority of the time I get upgrades, but just because there are open seats doesn't mean that they are "upgradable seats".

Case and point, I am flying PHX-DCA next week and I know for a fact that there are still 2 seats left available in first. If I were to buy 2 seats in F I would get those seats. However, I have not yet been upgraded because they are holding those seats for revenue. If the seats don't sell and there aren't any CP flyers with more miles then me, then I will get upgraded at the airport.

GN
Try something
If you are chairman and the computer does not upgrade you at 7 days, call and customer service will (at least they do for me, perhaps i have old fart by my name).

Irish
Favorite planes may have been the 720 and the original 747 with the piano bar upstairs.

Most fun airline: PSA :"Fly with us and get a rise, the business man's airline". I think their outfits were skimpier than Hefner's stews.

Most spoiling: dated an AA agent in college who made me a "V.I.T.". Used to fly student stand-by and got reserved first at airport.

Best Service: American's transatlantic first. They used to carve a prime rib with Russian or Iranian caviar.

Worse part of old days: had to fly with suit and tie.

I guess it might not be fair to the young turks, When I got mine, flying was actually fun. The stews were all young and cute. There was the "turtle club" and one always had a dinner/breakfast date if one wanted!

Thanks! Wouldn't miss the suit and tie, would love the prime rib. My wife is in the travel agency business and there was a time that simply showing her IATA card or business card was enough to get upgraded. That all stopped after 9/11...

Hey BeatCal,

Not trying to beat a dead horse, just wanted to give you an update. My flight to DC tomorrow is completely sold out up front, so no upgrade for me :(

I am flying PHX - SFO next monday and I did get the dreaded "No upgrade available" email. I checked the seat map and there are at least 4 seats still available, so I called like you said to.

The agent said that while there are still seats available for purchase in F, none of them are available for upgrade. I asked if that was true for Chairman and she said that all upgrades are now processed through the sweep and that they cannot manually do it. Hopefully they will release more seats for upgrades as we get closer to the departure date and I will get one then.

So, I guess that all Chairmans are created equal, but some are more equal than others. :)

Maybe I have not been "caught" after the sweep. I have had no problems with the manual - but it has been a few months since I have needed to call.

crap

if F isn't full on a US flight, then there are no other elites on the flight. Domestically speaking, that is.

Since retired 5 years ago, I haven't bought a DL ticket, but Ive been using plenty of miles for F tickets. I'm also lifetime PM. Now I need to do a simple overnight RT PDX-ATL in Sept. I'm only seeing 80,000 miles for an F ticket, so I'm thinking I might actually pay for the ticket. Two questions:

If I book a free coach ticket, it says I might get an upgrade. Is that a realistic expectation?

If I buy a coach ticket, it used to be that certain fares (e.g. Y) virtually guaranteed an upgrade at the time of purchase. Is that no longer the case?

I definitely do not want to take the chance of sitting in the back of the bus for such a long trip. Any advice appreciated. Thanks

Y still gets automatic upgrade at time of purchase if upgrade inventory is available. If you search by fare class for Y, it should say "Upgrade Available" instead of "Upgrade Eligible" on the website. Also note that as PM, you get free award redeposits and changes. Thus, you could book the 80K ticket and check regularly. If the price goes down, cancel and rebook. DL often makes more inventory available at the last minute. Also, with award upgrades, it's definitely worth searching within your upgrade window (five days out) for coach award tickets, as if there's upgrade inventory sitting around, you could get first class for 25K miles. Then just refund the miles ticket you booked earlier.