Winglets: The Definitive Thread
 

Winglets will be installed on 28 738s, 10 73Gs (737-700), 10 757-200, and 15 767-300ERs:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/070618/121552.html

The 28 738s will also be the ones to get the Song-style AVOD PTVs starting later this summer; they will also have 10 additional seats added though apparently with no perceivable change in legroom (with new Y seats); these 738s will now have 16F and 144Y seats (instead of the current 16F134Y).

Also, not mentioned in the article, but the 15 763ERs with the winglets will be used for longer flights (like ATL-LOS, JFK-TLV, and even LAX-Asia (as Jim Whitehurst inadvertently disclosed during an interview at the Paris Air Show) and will have the lie-flat pilot rest seats installed....I've noticed that they have now worked that into the seat map as every 763ER BE cabin now seems to have seat 5C blocked out as well (in addition to 6C which has always been blocked as it is the current pilot rest seat)...

Ugh. Even with new slimline seats I find it hard to believe that adding an extra row or two will not make a perceivable difference.

Don't the current 738s have an 'unnaturally' large amount of space at the back of the plane (around rows 30, 31) as they had taken seats out previously to limit the capacity to 150 seats (and thus the minimum of 3 FAs)?

Good question. If true, then I suppose adding extra rows will have less of an impact.

Federal rules mandate one flight attendant for every 50 seats

JetBlue recently took out a few seats to give more legroom and save money on an extra FA for only 6 pax

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/fligh...lue-usat_x.htm

So the new 738 config will require 4 FAs. Perhaps DL could learn something from JetBlue in this situation?

Yes - there is no 31A or 32ABC. The aircraft is gaining 1 row of seating, which will likely slightly impact pitch in the rows behind the exit. The good news is that rows ahead of the exits will be more spacious.

A largely unspoken reason for jetBlue removing seats was weight. Also, the extra seats were likely being filled with junk fares to Florida and fewer seats actually improved yields.

Yes, I believe that for DL could be better learn more those information. It would be better getting more legroom and installed the winglet entire fleet is 737NG, 757, 767s. What about there is no installed winglet by 767-400ER?

The 767-400 already has a raked wingtip that works much like a winglet.

Good move- improved stability, manouverability, and I believe it helps fuel mileage.

[QUOTE=ClipperDelta;7927977]Winglets will be installed on 28 738s, 10 73Gs (737-700), 10 757-200, and 15 767-300ERs:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/070618/121552.html

The 28 738s will also be the ones to get the Song-style AVOD PTVs starting later this summer; they will also have 10 additional seats added though apparently with no perceivable change in legroom (with new Y seats); these 738s will now have 16F and 144Y seats (instead of the current 16F134Y).

That would mean a minimum staffing of 4 Flight Attendants instaed of 3. That is a minimum of 100+ added flight attendants to support this configuration.

Delta probably did a cost-benefit comparison and figured out that the incremental costs of an extra FA (given the lower labor costs since bankruptcy) per flight will be made up for by the incremental revenue from the extra seats as well as the lower CASM (more seats to spread the cost over)...

Also provides additional range (and/or payload) for these planes - up to an additional 200 nautical miles for the 752s and up to 350 nm (or 5.5 tons of additional payload) for the 763ER...

DL is using these 738s for longer range flights though - they used to have that many seats from what I understand in the 738s (a FA friend told me this), but they took them out to take it down to 3 FAs. I'm sure on the routes they are planning the extra capacity will help.

Since when does DL have 73Gs?

They don't..yet..There will be 10 737-700s (73Gs) joining the fleet next year; these are firm orders converted from existing 737-800 options. They will seat 124 pax.

Ahh, ok... that makes more sense. Will be almost like it was a couple years ago with the 732s and 733s.

My only problem with all of this is that it is creating another subfleet after another subfleet, which can only mean less efficiency in general and certainly more inconvenience when there are equipment changes.

It would seem to me that if the winglets are so good, they should just install them on all the long haul equipment, particularly all the 767s. I realize the expense involved, but the fuel savings are so significant that I think they would be paid for quickly.

Filling those 10 additional seats on the 738s should be no problem, seeing as how it is only 6 seats more than what DL originally had on their 738 (154 total). Plus, the 738s could also find themselves on routes that are currently operated by 757s, which will be needed to free up some non-ER 763s for Hawaiian ops.

As for the 763ERs, the additional range opens up quite some potential from LAX to Korea and Japan. Now, I doubt DL is too interested in the already flooded LAX-NRT market, but I could see DL do from LAX what CO did from EWR, namely open smaller markets on the other side of the pond. Routes like LA-Pusan (Korea), Nagoya, Fukuoka or Osaka looke like interesting possibilities.

Well, at least this time round they won't have the high costs and inefficiencies associated with the different subfleets of 732s and 733s...the 73Gs and the 738s essentially have the same cockpit so pilot cross-utilization should not be an issue.


Even though LAX-NRT would be a stinker, it may unfortunately be necessary if DL is to develop a complete transpac portfolio from LAX...it will have to be one of those 'loss leader' flights if DL wants any credibility from LAX to Asia...

Sighting ...
 

Last week as I was taxiing from E to 26L, I spotted one of the new 737s complete with winglets and the new Delta paint job. It was sitting in the last hangar that is perpendicular to the runway. Looks like we may be seeing the new planes soon …

I would assume this new plane would also have the new slimline seats and AVOD, it would seem silly to take it out of commission twice.

More Winglets...
 

Just announced the doubling this morning.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...3-19461503.htm

Good to see that more winglets are being installed. Anything that helps with airlplane efficiency is something I'll stand behind.

Nice...

I'm all for saving fuel. Out of curiosity, anoyone have any idea on the economics (i.e., initial cost v. long term savings) of installing winglets?

The payback period is very short - just a few years according to most reports. AA has said that it will save between 17 million and 21 million gallons a year on its 58 763s with winglets. At today's prices, that's $34 million to $42 million of fuel saved each year. Prices for the winglets are not easy to verify, but at a WAG of $2 million per airplane (including a substantial amount of installation labor), that's less than 3 years to payback at current fuel prices.

Why didn't all airlines install winglets years ago? Less than 10 years ago, fuel was more like $0.55/gal instead of today's $2.00 plus. That's why. Cheap fuel means long-time to payback, while high fuel means no-brainer.

Edit to add: Aviation Partners Boeing says the list price of uninstalled 763 winglets is $1.85 million per set. Figure significant discounts from list for early/large scale buyers plus installation costs.

Right, the only problem now days is finding time to schedule the aircraft for the mod.

DL gets first installed new winglets by 737-800 (pics)
 

Hi all,

I just want let you guys know that I saw first DL new winglets by 738NG came in today and here it is:

http://traxxmaxmaster.deviantart.com...glets-65904267

IT was incredible that I seen DL is done installed new winglets with 737-800 but, the ship #3764 is completed installion. Enjoy the pictures new winglets from DL. Thanks! :)

intense picture - glad to see these being installed.

Me and another FT'er had a debate a few years ago. I swore at the time that DAL had 738s with winglets. Well, I'm happy to say I was right albeit a few years late. Have you see the new DAL 787? :p

What's World Airlines doing parking their bird in the DL hanger???

Those tool boxes at the bottom left of that foto bring back sweet memories of my late father's 32 year run at the TOC in ATL. He had a few like that actually that he rolled from Dept 285 to wherever they needed him to be. Man I loved going to visit him as a kid to see what engines he as working on. I used to ask him every day when he got home what he worked on that day. I think worked on the same engine most of the time but he would play to my curiosity and report something different every day. I loved the way those guys in the TOC would ride bikes from one end of that hanger to the other since it was faster than walking. I loved the smell of the place, the "family" attitude they all shared, and on and on and on.

Getting misty in here! I gotta go...

I see them in the Delta hanger all the time in ATL. I assumed Delta provides the maintenance on their aircraft.

The TOC is still awesome from what I hear.

Why would they paint "Flying Colors" on the winglets? Why not just repait the whole bird at once? I guess it may just be one blue with a reflection, but either way I'm confused.

nice, too bad it isn't painted yet :(

Some folks on A.net are saying the plane will be headed to the paint shop this week, so it'll be in the new livery when it comes back out on the line.

The World MD-11s are ex-Delta birds. Some still have (or had, back in 2005) the Delta interiors compete with BE seats up front.

My guess is like yours, Delta Tech Ops provides maintenance for them.

Yeah, That was former ex-DL was leave from entire fleet years ago. It was stopped flying on MD11 because DL has gotten into trouble the financial. I assumed if DL will get repainted the new livery.

Sorry to disappoint but this bird won't be painted in the new livery...at least not during this trip to the TOC.