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-   -   Winglets: The Definitive Thread (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1104459-winglets-definitive-thread.html)

J-M Jun 20, 2007 8:43 am

Since when does DL have 73Gs?

ClipperDelta Jun 20, 2007 8:50 am


Originally Posted by J-M (Post 7931365)
Since when does DL have 73Gs?

They don't..yet..There will be 10 737-700s (73Gs) joining the fleet next year; these are firm orders converted from existing 737-800 options. They will seat 124 pax.

J-M Jun 20, 2007 2:26 pm


Originally Posted by ClipperDelta (Post 7931408)
They don't..yet..There will be 10 737-700s (73Gs) joining the fleet next year; these are firm orders converted from existing 737-800 options. They will seat 124 pax.

Ahh, ok... that makes more sense. Will be almost like it was a couple years ago with the 732s and 733s.

Robert Leach Jun 20, 2007 3:07 pm

My only problem with all of this is that it is creating another subfleet after another subfleet, which can only mean less efficiency in general and certainly more inconvenience when there are equipment changes.

It would seem to me that if the winglets are so good, they should just install them on all the long haul equipment, particularly all the 767s. I realize the expense involved, but the fuel savings are so significant that I think they would be paid for quickly.

DAL767-400ER Jun 20, 2007 3:11 pm

Filling those 10 additional seats on the 738s should be no problem, seeing as how it is only 6 seats more than what DL originally had on their 738 (154 total). Plus, the 738s could also find themselves on routes that are currently operated by 757s, which will be needed to free up some non-ER 763s for Hawaiian ops.

As for the 763ERs, the additional range opens up quite some potential from LAX to Korea and Japan. Now, I doubt DL is too interested in the already flooded LAX-NRT market, but I could see DL do from LAX what CO did from EWR, namely open smaller markets on the other side of the pond. Routes like LA-Pusan (Korea), Nagoya, Fukuoka or Osaka looke like interesting possibilities.

ClipperDelta Jun 20, 2007 4:34 pm


Originally Posted by J-M (Post 7933496)
Ahh, ok... that makes more sense. Will be almost like it was a couple years ago with the 732s and 733s.

Well, at least this time round they won't have the high costs and inefficiencies associated with the different subfleets of 732s and 733s...the 73Gs and the 738s essentially have the same cockpit so pilot cross-utilization should not be an issue.



Originally Posted by DAL767-400ER
As for the 763ERs, the additional range opens up quite some potential from LAX to Korea and Japan. Now, I doubt DL is too interested in the already flooded LAX-NRT market, but I could see DL do from LAX what CO did from EWR, namely open smaller markets on the other side of the pond. Routes like LA-Pusan (Korea), Nagoya, Fukuoka or Osaka looke like interesting possibilities.

Even though LAX-NRT would be a stinker, it may unfortunately be necessary if DL is to develop a complete transpac portfolio from LAX...it will have to be one of those 'loss leader' flights if DL wants any credibility from LAX to Asia...

chaz.brownfield Aug 23, 2007 12:36 pm

Sighting ...
 
Last week as I was taxiing from E to 26L, I spotted one of the new 737s complete with winglets and the new Delta paint job. It was sitting in the last hangar that is perpendicular to the runway. Looks like we may be seeing the new planes soon …

mtparadis Aug 23, 2007 12:52 pm

I would assume this new plane would also have the new slimline seats and AVOD, it would seem silly to take it out of commission twice.

InStock Sep 10, 2007 5:51 am

More Winglets...
 
Just announced the doubling this morning.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...3-19461503.htm

ECOTONE Sep 10, 2007 7:39 am

Good to see that more winglets are being installed. Anything that helps with airlplane efficiency is something I'll stand behind.

Denolloyd Sep 10, 2007 9:25 am

Nice...

yorock Sep 10, 2007 10:04 am

I'm all for saving fuel. Out of curiosity, anoyone have any idea on the economics (i.e., initial cost v. long term savings) of installing winglets?

FWAAA Sep 10, 2007 10:58 am


Originally Posted by yorock (Post 8379330)
I'm all for saving fuel. Out of curiosity, anoyone have any idea on the economics (i.e., initial cost v. long term savings) of installing winglets?

The payback period is very short - just a few years according to most reports. AA has said that it will save between 17 million and 21 million gallons a year on its 58 763s with winglets. At today's prices, that's $34 million to $42 million of fuel saved each year. Prices for the winglets are not easy to verify, but at a WAG of $2 million per airplane (including a substantial amount of installation labor), that's less than 3 years to payback at current fuel prices.

Why didn't all airlines install winglets years ago? Less than 10 years ago, fuel was more like $0.55/gal instead of today's $2.00 plus. That's why. Cheap fuel means long-time to payback, while high fuel means no-brainer.

Edit to add: Aviation Partners Boeing says the list price of uninstalled 763 winglets is $1.85 million per set. Figure significant discounts from list for early/large scale buyers plus installation costs.

scassett Sep 10, 2007 11:04 am


Originally Posted by FWAAA (Post 8379643)
The payback period is very short - just a few years according to most reports. AA has said that it will save between 17 million and 21 million gallons a year on its 58 763s with winglets. At today's prices, that's $34 million to $42 million of fuel saved each year. Prices for the winglets are not easy to verify, but at a WAG of $2 million per airplane (including a substantial amount of installation labor), that's less than 3 years to payback at current fuel prices.

Why didn't all airlines install winglets years ago? Less than 10 years ago, fuel was more like $0.55/gal instead of today's $2.00 plus. That's why. Cheap fuel means long-time to payback, while high fuel means no-brainer.

Right, the only problem now days is finding time to schedule the aircraft for the mod.

N830MH Sep 28, 2007 12:06 am

DL gets first installed new winglets by 737-800 (pics)
 
Hi all,

I just want let you guys know that I saw first DL new winglets by 738NG came in today and here it is:

http://traxxmaxmaster.deviantart.com...glets-65904267

IT was incredible that I seen DL is done installed new winglets with 737-800 but, the ship #3764 is completed installion. Enjoy the pictures new winglets from DL. Thanks! :)


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