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-   -   Americans and Cuba Travel - the Facts, Resources, Related Experiences [only] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cuba/1512229-americans-cuba-travel-facts-resources-related-experiences-only.html)

I012609 Jan 30, 2017 2:01 pm

My husband and my experience as Americans traveling to Cuba (with as much detail as possible about the legalities and logistics) for 3 days is here:

https://insideflyer.com/forums/threa...e-last.138175/

VidaNaPraia Jan 30, 2017 7:58 pm

More misleading info.

Your blog says:
"We chose people-to-people. Started with a solid itinerary and then documented all of the people we talked to including our Casa guy, a tour guide, several vendors we chatted with for up to 15-20 minutes. Conversations with everyone we met, tour guides and museum/exhibit workers. With owners of and workers at paladares (private restaurants). Even bartenders and the folks at Havana Club museum/bar."


However:
"Example 4 to § 515.565(b):
An individual plans to travel to Cuba to rent a bicycle to explore the streets of Havana, engage in brief exchanges with shopkeepers while making purchases, and have casual conversations with waiters at restaurants and hotel staff. None of these activities are educational exchange activities that will result in meaningful interaction between the traveler and individuals in Cuba, and the traveler's trip does not qualify for the general license."
(https://cubapeopletopeople.blogspot....to-people.html)

So you did not 'maintained a full schedule of activities which resulted in meaningful interaction and exchange with the people of Cuba,' which is as specific as the Treasury Department will get."

Hopefully, no US travelers to Cuba will be held responsible for fulfilling criteria for any of the 12 excuses at any time in the future, just as they have not in the recent past.

I012609 Jan 31, 2017 8:10 am


Originally Posted by VidaNaPraia (Post 27842175)
More misleading info.

Your blog says:
"We chose people-to-people. Started with a solid itinerary and then documented all of the people we talked to including our Casa guy, a tour guide, several vendors we chatted with for up to 15-20 minutes. Conversations with everyone we met, tour guides and museum/exhibit workers. With owners of and workers at paladares (private restaurants). Even bartenders and the folks at Havana Club museum/bar."


However:
"Example 4 to § 515.565(b):
An individual plans to travel to Cuba to rent a bicycle to explore the streets of Havana, engage in brief exchanges with shopkeepers while making purchases, and have casual conversations with waiters at restaurants and hotel staff. None of these activities are educational exchange activities that will result in meaningful interaction between the traveler and individuals in Cuba, and the traveler's trip does not qualify for the general license."
(https://cubapeopletopeople.blogspot....to-people.html)

So you did not 'maintained a full schedule of activities which resulted in meaningful interaction and exchange with the people of Cuba,' which is as specific as the Treasury Department will get."

Hopefully, no US travelers to Cuba will be held responsible for fulfilling criteria for any of the 12 excuses at any time in the future, just as they have not in the recent past.

You misread the paragraph. Perhaps adding emphasis will help:

"We chose people-to-people. Started with a solid itinerary and then documented all of the people we talked to..."

That solid itinerary was a plan to participate in discussions and exchanges with Cubans about the history and culture of Cuba, which we did do following a full schedule of activities which resulted in meaningful interaction and exchange with the people of Cuba. IN ADDITION to that, we documented more casual conversations with other Cubans about its history and future, just to be safe.

But yes, these requirements are silly and the US Congress should lift them immediately.

VidaNaPraia Feb 16, 2017 8:52 am

Food for thought. Please read:
https://hereishavana.com/

miamiflyer8 Feb 16, 2017 11:42 pm


Originally Posted by VidaNaPraia (Post 27917469)
Food for thought. Please read:
https://hereishavana.com/

Thanks for sharing!

diver858 May 22, 2017 12:59 pm

We recently returned from HAV via CUN, first arriving in DFW. Our flight was delayed, skeleton crew in CBP, GE agent required us to stop, asked where we had visited. When I mentioned Cuba, he asked out our detailed log, went on a rant on how people are not following the regulations, are in violation of the law. VERY unpleasant experience.

VidaNaPraia May 23, 2017 9:33 am


Originally Posted by diver858 (Post 28345365)
We recently returned from HAV via CUN, first arriving in DFW. Our flight was delayed, skeleton crew in CBP, GE agent required us to stop, asked where we had visited. When I mentioned Cuba, he asked out our detailed log, went on a rant on how people are not following the regulations, are in violation of the law. VERY unpleasant experience.

Sounds awful. Sorry to hear.

Technically/legally, CPB has no charter to ask for any log, nor to do anything if one is not produced on request. It is an OFAC matter. (And yes, I suppose they could sic OFAC on you, but OFAC itself probably has no interest in following up, and has not in years, nor do they apparently have a budget to do so.)
And also, a technical detail...I have never seen published a legal time limit for recording such a journal. (You must keep it for 5 years though, yes.) Where does it say that "keeping" a log is defined as "writing down immediately" rather than "writing down your completed schedule once you get home and have time".
This guy simply over-reached. Maybe he is one of those fanatic anti-Communists who refuse to see that things are changing and let his personal feelings interfere with his job performance.

I suppose that the moral of the story might be to make sure you keep some journal of entries on activities.
How would they realistically check whatever you had written? No one gives receipts for tours or transportation or cultural activities.
And really.....How could any US government entity verify or check on a Cuban citizen or enterprise without invading Cuban sovereign territory?

Anyway, sorry it happened to you. And I don't think, from all the online reports I've read recently, that it is typical.

MSPeconomist Jun 16, 2017 12:10 pm

Things seem to be changing fast.

Trump just announced in a speech in Miami that tourist travel will again be banned, and it sounded like this could become "effective immediately" (Trump's words).

He also announced the unilateral rescinding of trade agreements, etc., essentially Obama's entire policy on Cuba, so the locals could become a lot less friendly pretty quickly and direct flights between the USA and Cuba could be stopped as soon as practical.

It might be wise to book refundable tickets on Canadian carriers if you might need to leave immediately.

The USA Embassy will remain open.

ADDED: The media claim there's also a prohibition on USA citizens staying in hotels run by the Cuban military and all records involving travel to Cub a must be retained for five years.

ADDED AGAIN: There's a FAQ document (linked by SkiAdcock in the OMNI/PR thread) that sounds like nothing much is changing for travel and certainly not until new regulations are announced by the relevant federal agency. It states that the person-to-person exception will still be permitted, which I thought was how most people did it. If so, this could have little impact on tourist travel, although I would expect the rules to be enforced more strictly (and the stricter record keeping rules would be in line with this).

dinanm3atl Jun 16, 2017 4:44 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 28451182)
Things seem to be changing fast.

Trump just announced in a speech in Miami that tourist travel will again be banned, and it sounded like this could become "effective immediately" (Trump's words).

He also announced the unilateral rescinding of trade agreements, etc., essentially Obama's entire policy on Cuba, so the locals could become a lot less friendly pretty quickly and direct flights between the USA and Cuba could be stopped as soon as practical.

It might be wise to book refundable tickets on Canadian carriers if you might need to leave immediately.

The USA Embassy will remain open.

ADDED: The media claim there's also a prohibition on USA citizens staying in hotels run by the Cuban military and all records involving travel to Cub a must be retained for five years.

ADDED AGAIN: There's a FAQ document (linked by SkiAdcock in the OMNI/PR thread) that sounds like nothing much is changing for travel and certainly not until new regulations are announced by the relevant federal agency. It states that the person-to-person exception will still be permitted, which I thought was how most people did it. If so, this could have little impact on tourist travel, although I would expect the rules to be enforced more strictly (and the stricter record keeping rules would be in line with this).

"Tourist Travel" was never not 'banned'. You could simply just choose of the 12 things 'allowed' and go on a tourist trip. It sounds like that is being tightened up.

VidaNaPraia Jun 16, 2017 6:05 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 28451182)
Things seem to be changing fast.

Trump just announced in a speech in Miami that tourist travel will again be banned, and it sounded like this could become "effective immediately" (Trump's words).

He also announced the unilateral rescinding of trade agreements, etc., essentially Obama's entire policy on Cuba, so the locals could become a lot less friendly pretty quickly and direct flights between the USA and Cuba could be stopped as soon as practical.

It might be wise to book refundable tickets on Canadian carriers if you might need to leave immediately.

The USA Embassy will remain open.

ADDED: The media claim there's also a prohibition on USA citizens staying in hotels run by the Cuban military and all records involving travel to Cub a must be retained for five years.

ADDED AGAIN: There's a FAQ document (linked by SkiAdcock in the OMNI/PR thread) that sounds like nothing much is changing for travel and certainly not until new regulations are announced by the relevant federal agency. It states that the person-to-person exception will still be permitted, which I thought was how most people did it. If so, this could have little impact on tourist travel, although I would expect the rules to be enforced more strictly (and the stricter record keeping rules would be in line with this).


PLEASE don't make it more confusing than it might be.
Most of the above is misinformation.

Trump just announced in a speech in Miami that tourist travel under the individual]people to people OFAC criteria will be banned , but the other 11 categories were not, nor was group travel under people to people (the trips Insight and Road Scholar run), and cruises are still allowed, and the new rules are supposed to be effective when the new guidelines are in place, expected to be 90 days.

Records for all the 12 OFAC individual licenses require keeping records for 5 years currently as well. No change. Maybe more oversight. Not stated.

Anything booked before today, and before the new guidelines are published, is grandfathered in under the old Obama rules.

It's no media claim. Hotels owned or in partnership with the Cuban military (that is most of them, if not all) are not to be allowed,nor are government restaurants. Stays in casas particulares and eating at paladars (both privately owned) are OK. Apparently a list (guidelines) will be published.
Locals understand quite well what is going on and are not likely to take it out on visitors,

The number of direct flights is likely dependent on how many US travelers get accurate information and understand their options, and that there ARE options (besides going through Canada or Mexico).

JDiver Jun 16, 2017 7:13 pm

VidaNaPraia is quite correct. Panic is contraindicated. I've added to the Wikipost, and in the upcoming weeks and months, as new policies and regulations are put into place, wording and links to these will be added.

Individual travel will undoubtedly be curtailed, group travel by land and cruise operators will be allowed to continue. They will probably have to make changes to travel plans, as the new rules ban any US financial transactions with Armed Forces Business Enterprises Group (GAESA), which is involved with a plethora of activities such as hotels (e.g. the Gaviota hotel that was to be managed by Starwood), state-run restaurants, the tour bus companies used by most tour groups - GAESA has its hands into many tour developments and projects. "All the state hotels, stores and eateries in colonial Old Havana are owned by Habaguanex, which was recently taken over from the city historian's office by GAESA." (VOA)

"Any ban on using military-owned tourism facilities would make it very difficult to bring groups larger than seven people, because for logistical reasons you need to work with the government," said Collin Laverty, president of Cuba Educational Travel." (VOA)

carpetbagger Jun 16, 2017 11:47 pm

[Moderator edit of text per rule 12.2: "FlyerTalk is a diverse, multi-cultural community. Expressions of prejudice or discrimination in any form are not permitted."]

As a german citizen from the EU I totally understand and support the revoking of the people-to-people program.

And another question: The USA has tremendous beautiful places and resorts to visit, why american citizens want to travel to Cuba?

miamiflyer8 Jun 17, 2017 6:34 am


Originally Posted by carpetbagger (Post 28453033)
why american citizens want to travel to Cuba?

Rum and cigars? :D

VidaNaPraia Jun 17, 2017 12:27 pm

Unique music and culture.

SJOGuy Jun 17, 2017 7:10 pm


Originally Posted by MSPeconomist (Post 28451182)
so the locals could become a lot less friendly pretty quickly

I think that statement is unnecessarily alarmist. Cubans recognize that a half-century of strained relations between our two countries is a government-to-government matter. In my travels to Cuba during the past 2.5 years, I've never experienced any animosity towards me for being an American. I don't expect it to start now.


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