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-   -   Americans and Cuba Travel - the Facts, Resources, Related Experiences [only] (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cuba/1512229-americans-cuba-travel-facts-resources-related-experiences-only.html)

JDiver Nov 19, 2013 9:08 pm

Please read my posts more closely - they are targetted at American citizens and residents and based on the realities that exist for those people visiting Cuba. Regardless of what one thinks of U S Government policy, it is what it is, not what we may want it to be. And U S citizens and residents who wish to travel to Cuba via the "back door" certainly will find many opportunities to do so, but they are not without risk.

Moderator hat on: Be aware, further posts discussing the politics or opinions about the issue, as stated in the OP, and they will be summarily deleted.


Originally Posted by VidaNaPraia (Post 21806820)
Well, JDiver, just coming out from hiding under my bed is not without risk, but it doesn't give me reason for overly much concern.
If I want to travel, and can find a convenient and comfortable way, esp more inexpensively, misguided and outdated thinking on the part of the US government is not a deterrent to visiting a place Europeans and my US-based Cuban friends regularly go.


DebTravels Dec 12, 2013 5:33 pm

excellent information
 
Thanks for this. I'm an American living in Australia. My husband and I are thinking about an organized cruise that has stops in Cuba. I made it clear to him and our friends that I'd spend that day on the ship as I won't be going into Cuba.

This information is really good to have. Thanks for your time and effort putting it together.

United_727 Dec 14, 2013 10:34 am

Very informantive post. Though,Sky King also flies Florida-Cuba.

ksandness Dec 17, 2013 11:02 am

My group flew to Cuba on the first charter flight out of ORD, and when we returned, we were expecting some hassle, but I was the first from the group to reach a particular Immigration officer's desk, and when he saw that I had been to Cuba, he just raised his eyebrows and said, "I didn't know we had flights to Cuba. Welcome home."

When I claimed my luggage and handed my Customs form in, the Customs officer reacted the same way:"I didn't know we had flights to Cuba. What did you buy?"

I told him the truth, which was that I'd bought two CDs and some crafts made by cooperatives that the religious groups we visited had organized.

He waved me through.

United_727 Dec 18, 2013 7:55 pm

Here is a good article about Havana.

http://airchive.com/blog/2013/03/25/...ional-airport/

diver858 Jan 1, 2014 6:15 pm

Excellent thread, OP.

We would like to visit Cuba LEGALLY before the Castro brothers give up, Havana becomes Orlando South. For a long weekend, we are good with the structured tours, but would like to also try some scuba diving, possibly bicycle ride while there. When asked via email or phone, the operators insist that there is no flexibility in their itineraries, not sure if that is the politically correct answer, to protect their license, or if Jay Z and Beyonce screwed it for the rest of us http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/was...e-proven-legal

dgxoxo Jan 1, 2014 8:59 pm

Very interesting. I was just talking with friends about a trip to Cuba. Question - will US phones work in Cuba and pick up local signals (voice and data?).

SJOGuy Jan 1, 2014 10:14 pm


Originally Posted by diver858 (Post 22064534)
When asked via email or phone, the operators insist that there is no flexibility in their itineraries

The way I understand it, that is correct. You are expected to participate in all the activities of the tour. You don't get to go off on your own and do other things.

JDiver Jan 2, 2014 1:45 pm

That is correct. At least one US company I know of have had their license cancelled or put on hold because they were not sufficiently "people to people", and travellers are expected to hew to the OFAC-approved schedules. They are not allowed, for example, to visit beaches for recreational purposes. The operators are correct, as is SJOGuy and is assumption.

I'm not aware of any (but that doesn't mean there aren't) OFAC-approved dive companies; Isla de la Juventúd would be the best destination, IMO.


Originally Posted by SJOGuy (Post 22065523)
The way I understand it, that is correct. You are expected to participate in all the activities of the tour. You don't get to go off on your own and do other things.


Originally Posted by diver858 (Post 22064534)
Excellent thread, OP.

We would like to visit Cuba LEGALLY before the Castro brothers give up, Havana becomes Orlando South. For a long weekend, we are good with the structured tours, but would like to also try some scuba diving, possibly bicycle ride while there. When asked via email or phone, the operators insist that there is no flexibility in their itineraries, not sure if that is the politically correct answer, to protect their license, or if Jay Z and Beyonce screwed it for the rest of us http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/was...e-proven-legal


Your US phone will not work in Cuba unless it has a Cuban chip. I am not aware of what requirements may exist for purchasing a Cuban chip, but suspect it requires identification, etc. Satphones and the like are prohibited and subject to temporary confiscation if declared, permanent confiscation and sanctions to importers if undeclared.


Originally Posted by dgxoxo (Post 22065243)
Very interesting. I was just talking with friends about a trip to Cuba. Question - will US phones work in Cuba and pick up local signals (voice and data?).


diver858 Jan 2, 2014 5:05 pm

Look what happened to the Korean War vet who said the wrong thing while visiting North Korea, if you get sick, in an accident. A short trip to Cuba is just not worth risking a big fine, jail.

ksandness Jan 3, 2014 3:35 pm


Originally Posted by dgxoxo (Post 22065243)
Very interesting. I was just talking with friends about a trip to Cuba. Question - will US phones work in Cuba and pick up local signals (voice and data?).

No. There was a man in our group who works for Verizon, and he specifically asked about this before he left. The answer: No U.S. phone company has a roaming agreement with Cuba. I know that my iPhone, which worked in Europe and Japan, detected no signal in Cuba. (i used it as a camera and e-Book reader). I suppose I could have used wi-fi if I had found any, but the only Internet we found in Havana was dial-up at one of the international hotels, and it was so slow that the person who tried it gave up.

JDiver Jan 11, 2014 10:11 am

Somewhat tangentially, but with possible implications for Cuba travel, the US and Cuba have been in talks the last couple of weeks. Edward Alex Lee of the US Department of State has been representing the USA, and areas of discussion have included more freedom of expression and rights to petition government without fear of reprisal for Cubans, as well as areas of mutual interest - including aviation safety, co-operation in counter-narcotics work, protocols on preparing for oil spills, search-and-rescue work and the re-establishment of postal relations between the two nations. (BBC here.)

As well, the USA is interested in the treatment and release of Mr. Alan Gross, a US citizen accused of smuggling satellite communications equipment (he was unofficially in country to establish Internet communications for the Cuban Jewish community, but did not have any permits), sentenced to 15 years of prison in Cuba.

Cuba is interested in the release of five Cubans, Antonio Guerrero Rodríguez, 22 yrs; Fernando González Llort, 18 yrs.; Gerardo Hernández Nordelo, two life sentences plus 15 years; Ramón Labañino Salazar, 30 yrs.; René González Sehwerert , 15 yrs, freed after 12 years and serving 3 years of formal probation in Miami. These latter were Cuban DGI agents attempting to infiltrate US Cuban-American organizations opposed to the Castro government, and arrested as foreign intelligence agents committing espionage in the US.

This latter issue is a stumbling block to some other possible resolutions.

But it all means there may be possible changes in US - Cuba travel in the near future (after over 50 years of the embargo), and it'll pay to remain aware of progress on these fronts.

GUWonder Jan 13, 2014 7:15 am

I can't even find one conviction of a returning from Cuba US citizen for willful opposition to answer any questions, in writing or verbally, that go beyond proclaiming identity and citizenship on arrival at a US port of entry. Leaving out Cuba on the customs declaration form resulting in a conviction? Zero history of that. Smart federal prosecutors -- and even stupid ones -- don't like to prosecute guaranteed losing cases or non-cases.

dhuey Jan 13, 2014 12:55 pm

The Center for Constitutional Rights has produced a comprehensive review of the legal aspects of Cuba travel for Americans:

Know Before You Go - A Guide for Traveling to Cuba
http://ccrjustice.org/files/Advice%2...ember%2009.pdf

This publication was written in 2009; there have been some regulatory changes since then that expanded the categories of licensed travel.

As discussed in this publication, there are potential criminal and civil penalties for unlawful transactions involving Cuba and Cubans.

Criminal
It is important to note that there are two forms of penalties for violations - criminal and civil. Most travelers who are alleged to have violated the travel embargo are charged with civil violations. This is discussed in more detail in part 5 of this booklet. Criminal charges can be pursued in certain situations, however. If OFAC believes that there is evidence that " ... suggests willful violations of substantive prohibitions or requirements, OFAC may refer those cases to other federal law enforcement agencies for criminal investigation" (31 C.F.R. Part 501 C). In practice, this rarely happens. We generally see criminal charges for violations of the regulations in a few types of cases: those involving large-scale commercial transactions (e.g., importation of more than 500 cigars in one's luggage) or where a person allegedly arranged travel or other related events (e.g., organizing boat races to Cuba) for others without a special "travel service provider" license allowing them to do so. However, there is no guarantee that the government will continue this policy of enforcing the travel restrictions mainly through civil penalties.
pp. 2-3.

Civil

From the Congressional Research Service:
In addition to civil penalties against companies, OFAC has also sanctioned individuals for violating the travel sanctions. According to OFAC’s listing of civil enforcement actions on its website, from 2004-2005, over 800 individuals had civil penalties assessed or reached informal settlements for alleged violations of various restrictions under the Cuban Assets Control Regulations. The individuals either were assessed a penalty or reached an informal settlement for violations of the Cuba regulations (not just travel-related restrictions) with almost $1.1 million in penalties. Since 2006, however, after backlogged cases were resolved, the number of individuals penalized by OFAC fell considerably. Less than 100 individuals have been penalized since 2006, with 21 in 2006, 17 in 2007, 32 in 2008, 3 in 2009, and 1 in 2010; since 2011, OFAC has not reported any individuals being penalized for violations of the CACR.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL31139.pdf (my emphasis)

My Analysis

I think it's fair to say that the Obama Administration has decided that it will no longer pursue criminal or civil penalties against ordinary tourists who engage in unlicensed transactions in Cuba. There hasn't been such an enforcement action since 2011. As Cuba travel expert Christopher Baker put it, "Under the Obama administration, OFAC has refocused to more urgent priorities and during my 13 visits to Cuba within the past year, only a very small percentage of visitors returning from Cuba are being asked to demonstrate proof of legal travel."

http://travel.usatoday.com/destinati...-trip/812249/1

While I am not encouraging anyone to violate the law, I will say that if a client told me that he had engaged in unlicensed transactions in Cuba and that he was about to return to the USA, I would tell him emphatically not to list Cuba as a country visited on immigration Form 6059B -- list only Mexico, Canada or whichever country was his gateway.

In my opinion, omitting Cuba from the countries listed would not violate 18 U.S.C. § 1001 in these circumstances. The applicable question reads: "Countries visited on this trip prior to U.S. arrival". It does not ask you to state all of the countries you visited, nor does it ask you to affirm that no counties you visited are omitted. The only false answer to this question would be to list a country that you did not actually visit. I would also say to my client that if an agent asks for clarification on countries visited, or asks point-blank, "did you visit Cuba?", politely decline to answer the question -- do not lie.

Given that there appears to be no case where someone was charged with violating § 1001 for not listing Cuba as a "country visited" (I searched case law and statutory annotations -- none found), I think it is extremely unlikely that a tourist would be criminally charged with violating § 1001. Listing Cuba on Form 6059B would, however, go a long way to incriminating yourself and exposing yourself to an administrative penalty.

So, there you have my legal analysis -- which, to clarify, is not my legal advice to anyone. Hire a lawyer if you want that. Best of luck.

JDiver Jan 13, 2014 2:25 pm

I think that's very helpful, dhuey; thanks for contributing that viewpoint and constructive post. I also believe the current administration has eased off on OFAC enforcement, and that the current US-Cuba discussions will lead to even greater easing of the rules that have been in place for so long. (And that a future administration will not tighten the cord again, but that's purely speculative and not currently in evidence.)


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