Rebating agent for Ponant?
 

Does anyone know of a cruise agent that books (and rebate commissions) for Ponant? First cruises I booked through VTG (very low clearance rates never to be repeated ) but they're not offering anything special these days.

Try Pavlus Travel. Annette is our agent and has always been excellent. https://pavlus.com/planners/

What's the incentive for an agent to rebate their commission? Most travel agents are actually in the business of making money and not doing charity work.

Randy beat me to it. Annette is our agent as well.

They are in the business of making money, and their business model is to give rebates, which keep the customer loyal to the travel agency.

Thanks. Has anyone used Luxuryonly.com? They clam to rebate up to $1,000 OBC,$2,000 travel credit and $2,000 Visa gift card up to 5-16% of cruise fare.

Looks like someone has been paying too much.

I guess some of us are willing to pay for quality service, and some aren't.

I can see an agent rebating part of their commission (usually in return for poor service), but your question asks for an agent who rebates the entire commission. You can find a ton of agents who do partial rebates by using cruisecompete.com, but I've tried it and have been dissatisfied with all of them.

I don’t think YVR Cockroach necessarily meant 100% rebate of commission. I can’t speak for 747FC but we have been using Annette at Pavlus for 10 years now and have always gotten super service from her. Of course we don’t ask Annette or any travel agent for that matter for much more than booking the cruise. After 29 years of cruising it’s not like we need a lot of handholding. We typically book our flights, arrange pre and post-cruise hotels, and sometimes transfers without help. We actually like doing that and at the same time leverage awards, etc., that we’ve accumulated from business and personal travel.

It also matters what type of cruise you are taking on what cruise line. An inside cabin on a mega ship for a 7-day Caribbean cruise out of Florida can be had for well under $1,000 so maybe the partial rebate of commission is no big deal. Now take a 10+ day cruise in the Med on an all inclusive luxury line and the fare is going to be around $1,000 per day. Any rebate or whatever incentives can add up quickly.

As a FYI, cruise sales are one thing that still rely heavily on retail distribution so commissions can be very, very high (25% range even?). I've heard from someone who cruises on RSSC that it can be as high as 5 figures (obviously RSSC cruises can be very expensive). Those who offer rebates are the TAs who have minimum overhead (e.g., WFH, no bricks 'n mortar presence) so don't have to pay for that.

Like the above respondents, I am a customer that requires very little if any handholding; just book the cruise for me and I will arrange everything else by myself. No questions about almost everything under the sun (though I'd like to be informed of upsell offers, which I have never received). I'm also someone who has not sailed on a round-trip cruise for the past 40+ years (though only been cruising the past 10 years otherwise). I can arrange m own tours at either end, or both, + transport to/from. One of the people who will disembark at the port for Santiago (Valparaiso) by taking the metro, public bus, metro again and walk to my accommodation. Can arrange visits to Easter Island and Machu Picchu by themselves, and find their own way home.

I would say the only handholding I would needed - and more of an action - in the past 2 years would have been to get refunds on cruise fares due to COVID cancellations. Fortunately, I had absolutely no bookings for anything.

Yep, there is CCF (commissionable cruise fare) and NCCF (non-CCF). For anything close to "list price" or initial price, you can bet CCF is a huge portion of the fare. I booked one cruise (one of the supposedly-unpopular repos that sold out) for ~$40 pp pd before fees/taxes. You can bet CCF was probably nothing for that one! Even booked one within-final-payment cruise on a mass-market line, had a private sale fare of 20% off the lowest rate which was close to clearance, and got a significant amount (for the fare) of OBC (~8%) from the TA.

I'd be happy to pay full commissions (or rather, expect no rebates in an form) if the TA ha access to really good fares. Here s the excerpt from my Ponant booking (from invoice issued by Ponant)

Might have been a Ponant marketing trial balloon for a few months back in the latter half of 2018. Have never seen anything quite as discounted since.

Ponant fares may start at 30% off at launch for some cruises but generally the prices are either full rack for more popular ones (such as the wildly-expensive Northwest Passage), or there might be free add-on repositioning "ocean voyage" cruises, air travel allowance, consecutive cruise discounts and the like. I asked VTG if Ponant would allow the 2nd leg of the cruise above to be include as a free ocean voyage but the answer was no, or I would have had to pay close to the full fare for the 1st segment which would have been more expensive than both bought individually at deep discount.

Count us as more Pavlus customers - Carol was our agent until she retired; now Susan cares for us. Which is to say she books the trip we ask her to and she tells us when payments are due and that's about all the customer service we ask for. I enjoy trip planning - I only want an agent if they're going to get better prices and/or perks than I can get on my own. However -my in-laws (who think they are low maintenance but are NOT when it comes to travel) also love Pavlus - they are a full-service agency if that is what you need.

We were scrolling the Pavlus website this weekend and boy - they are out there trying to show that 2% discount they can offer (seabourn cruises) like it's going to make a difference. I don't think 2022 is the year to find a cruise bargain.....

It may be unadvertised, but in practice, their Seabourn rebates are 10%

I would imagine Seabourn has the same policy as the rest of Carnival Corporation, and actually almost every cruise line, which looks very dimly on discounters openly advertising significant discounts or rebating of commissions. This became an issue probably 15 years ago across the whole industry. Brick and mortar travel agencies collectively threatened to stop booking cruises if the cruise lines didn’t come down on discounters. In defense of the brick and mortars they have a completely different business model than Internet agencies and sometimes several offices in a large city. On the other hand most Internet based agents work out their homes and the agency may have a small support staff in a small office. What that has meant is that Internet based agencies that provide significant incentives or rebates simply can’t and don’t openly advertise them.

Its certainly the marketing model, or perhaps the realty of the market. B 'n M TAs certainly have a lot of overhead. It'd seem that cruising (unlike car rentals and hotels, especially, air travel) is the last bastion for rather-generous commissions to be earned, due to the substantial portion of the market that seems to be fixated on a controlled environment, and/or require handholding. As such, cruiseco excursions and transfers are exorbitantly priced to take all risk and uncertainly away. Of course, there may be a (smaller) market of those too busy to deal with arranging anything. I imagine a lot of cruisers just want to book and have the TA (and cruiseco) handle everything while many of us here just treat the cruise like another flight or hotel.

If only cruisecos would treat their fares like airlines (no rhyme or reason at times, I know, + contracted pricing) at a best and final price for the masses and let those ho need handholding and arrangement pay for it as an extra.

I can’t say I’ve studied the history of brick and mortar travel agencies and the emergence of Internet agencies in detail but my impression is that the change probably started in the mid to late 1990’s/early 2000’s. Personally while I was participating in a cruise forum as early as 1993 on AOL that eventually would become Cruise Critic I really hadn’t thought much about booking a cruise any other way than through a brick and mortar agency/agent. It wasn’t until 2004 when a fellow cruiser on a Holland America cruise talked to me about how I had booked my cruise and my alternatives. He introduced me to my first Internet agency and while not with that agency now I haven’t booked a cruise with a brick and mortar since. As it was even before I changed to booking through Internet agencies I was already making my own arrangements. A lot of that was because I traveled extensively for work and back then our agency had no centralized travel office so I was experienced in booking flights, hotels, and rental cars.

Concurrently as part of a local restaurant/bar trivia team I had met a local travel agent. She was one of many agents of a large agency had seven or so different locations here in town. Can’t say they were huge but they easily dominated the local travel business. They’d hold annual travel fair with a heavy emphasis on cruising. Almost every line would send representatives handing out brochures and small gifts, giving presentations, door prizes, etc. She knew we didn’t book through her but she’d always tell about the fairs and asked that if we could please attend and register with her as our agent. Around 2008 she started complaining about the drop off in business but mainly attributed that to the downturn in the economy with a helping nudge by the ever growing Internet. The last fair I remember was 2011 and the closing of one by one of her agency’s satellite offices. Today they have only what was the main office with a hand full of agents. While they still book vacation travel including cruises most of their business is corporate business travel. Sadly my agent friend suffered a fatal heart attack five years ago so not only lost a friend but also my insider on the state of the brick and mortar travel agency business.

Brief History of Travel Agents--since we're talking about it
 

Sorry if this seems OT, but is feels the conversation is drifting this way. Here's a general overview of what has gone on with travel agents.

If you are old enough, you will remember when you needed to get air tickets, you had to either book them through a TA or at the airline counter at the airport. TAs received commissions from the airlines. When the airlines stopped paying commissions, many travel agencies closed. People pronounced it the end of TAs, but it was not. However, the industry contracted significantly as people (like most FTers) were able to book online or by calling the airlines. However, as cruise lines and hotels still paid commissions (and still do), the industry survived in a new form.

When 9-11, happened, there was a huge sudden loss of work for travel for about 6-12 months. Travel agencies closed up shop. The industry rebuilt until it was arguably bigger than ever (although in a new form). As the internet expanded, more an more TAs became independent contractors to a few large travel agencies or consortia. As you have noticed, although brick and mortars still exist, there are fewer and fewer because of the overhead.

Then the pandemic hit. Most TAs spent more time getting refunds, cancelling bookings, etc than they did booking new business. Obviously not a sustainable business model unless it is not your primary source of income.

Why do cruise lines and hotels still pay commissions? Because it is cheaper than hiring their own staff! A TA who books a lot of given cruise line (and TAs do tend to specialize) can provide the cruise line with more bookings than a full-time staffer with employment taxes, benefits, etc.

Most TAs now are more like Uber drivers than employees. They have their own small business but, to get training, computer system access, training, access to consortium discounts for their clients, etc, they join what are called in the trade "host agencies." These agencies take a cut of the commission--which can be anywhere from 60% to 10% of the commission the supplier provides. The TA usually pays the host agency monthly fees as well, whether they receive any commission that month or not. Then most American TAs, they will pay about 30% of the commission they in state and federal taxes. So if the commission were $1,000, the TA, at the end of the day MIGHT see a net of $300-$400. And while they definitely have low overhead, they don't have no overhead. Computers, phone, internet, marketing, etc. Finally, many suppliers don't pay the commission until after the trip is taken. So if I book you for a 2023 trip, I will do most of the work in 2022 but don 't receive a dime until after the trip (if you don't cancel!).

So more and more agents are starting to charge an upfront planning fee. Usually, the fee is refunded if you actually book through the agent. As others in this thread have noted, some clients are LOTS more work than others. There are also the shoppers, who ask a TA a million questions, get great suggestions, and then go book it themselves. The planning fee helps stop TAs from wasting hours of time planning a trip for someone who then books elsewhere using all the information the TA gave them.

Finally, thanks to Covid in a strange way, more travelers (especially casual travelers) have learned the value of using a TA. They don't have the average of 30 hours to spend on the internet researching and planning a trip, they don't want to be scammed, or planning travel confuses them. They want someone to take care cancellations, telling them what current Covid restrictions are, handling endless airline schedule changes, etc.

Right now, industry estimates are that travel, and use of TAs, has increased to pre-pandemic levels. Obviously, some people can and should plan their own travel. Of course, those who require the least hand-holding are the ones TAs are most likely to rebate some part of the commission to. Those of you doing this great--but remember the TA is probably paying 30% of whatever they give you in taxes :)

Not complaining, just explaining :)

Thanks tor the overview. I guess one can segment the market by at least sophisticated vs unsophisticated travellers, and those who have the time, inclination and/or knowledge to research and self-book and those who don't. The ones who will use a TA are the unsophisticated, those who don't have time, inclination and/or skills, and the unsophisticated who don't have the time, inclination and/or skills.

Not that I've spoken to any cruisco's sales rep off a ship (or actually, even on one) but I get the impression that they're foreign-based and perhaps outsourced? I don't have any problem speaking to a off-short sales consultant (my only request is "here is what I want, please provide me with your best and final offer") but I imagine a large proportion of the cruiser market would find that (speaking to someone offshore with an foreign accent) abhorrent. I somehow think this is why cruisecos don't have their own sales force, even if it is just a telephone bank.

I'm not familiar with U.S. tax laws but won't that be a legitimate business expense/deduction? Looks like it isn't deductible for whatever reason.

B&M as gretchendz says was the only way to book anything (other than call the travel provider) for years. I think the early/mid '90s was when online research and bookings started becoming possible (IIRC OAG/Online Airline Guide was avvailable on CIS/Compuserve).even if it was all text driven. I think I started booking my own travel in this era.

I forgot to mention one of the large remaining B 'n M cruise TAs is Expedia Cruises which, at least where I am, has franchised(?) outlets. Almost a pyramid scheme as the TAs have to pay the franchisee who in turn have to pay Barry Diller (or whoever owns Expedia these days, Some people still say Bill Gates/Microsoft). .At any rate, cruises aren't the big money maker for TAs, but ancilliary services like air tickets, ground transportation, hotel, cruise excursions and other arrangements are.

Taxes
 

So, as always US tax laws are a bit complicated (job security for tax attorneys and preparers!). It is revenue so it is taxed. The TA receives the commission as revenue even if they give it all away. TAs can take limited deductions for gifts and such but it depends a lot on your business model and practices...too many deductions can help get you an audit :) Others may know better than me what level might trigger an audit, but I know if one were rebating most of their commissions, it would likely trigger one :)

As to sophisticated vs unsophisticated travelers, I would add some additional categories (maybe these are actually sub categories):

--Sophisticated travelers who know what they want and can pay for it, but who don't enjoy the planning process (surveys in the industry suggest that online travel planning can average 30 hours of planning per trip--a broad generalization, for sure). They are happy to work with an agent who knows them and what they like and will do all the "busy work" for them.

--Sophisticated travelers who can and do like to book their own but are interested in working with an agent willing to "rebate" some of the commission, saving the traveler some money (Hence, this thread!)

--Millennials who are the fastest growing segment of TA clients. They know how to use the internet, but they would rather spend their time doing something else :)

--People who like having a TA look out for deals for them. Case in point, when a certain European river cruise started giving out free cruises to doctors, nurses, firefighters, hospital staff, and police...Many people in those categories got a heads up from their TA . Those who booked saved 5 or 6 grand :) The more the TA knows you, the more they can keep an eye out for a offer you might otherwise miss.

--People who like having someone who spends all their time watching the travel industry. Checking the Covid restrictions for example. Another case in point, a year before Crystal Cruises went under, some TAs began warning their Crystal clients that there might be financial trouble. We talked clients out of giving Crystal tens of thousands of dollars. Lost commissions, but being ethical and looking out for your clients is good long term business.

Of course, not every TA does these things and the OTA's definitely do not. But not every traveler wants or needs those type of services. To each their own :)

Mostly these two for me and both come down to saving me money and aggravation. I enjoy copious planning but appreciate using someone who has knowledge and a bit of access which I don't. There was usually something to request with cruise like dining time, table size, or once a downline disembarkation request (which google tells me RCL no longer allows). I really liked how I could send an email to the TA and not have to call anyone, especially since I usually take care of such things outside business hours. I'm not sure certain cruise lines have evolved their customer facing experiences fully into this decade, yet, but hope they've had to figure it out so TAs and customers alike can make changes at 11 pm if they want to on a fully functional website.

I got the impression my the big online TA (and specific initial booking TA who hands it off to TA CS team for modifications) did higher volume with certain companies. They may not offer the largest rebate or lowest private fare for a cruise line they didn't get as much business for.

Didn't go for Ponant in the end but am in the process of booking a cheap cruise on Explora I. To show how much fat is there, the cruise is going for 50% off but, the TA is still providing €150 p.p. OBC and close to 12% cash back (so close to 20%) which was offered upfront and w/o asking in the initial quote. Food quality is said to be phenomenal. I'm seriously afraid of massive weight gain so good thing the cruise is only 6 nights.

Also got a much-better agent at oft-recommended TA this time. Hopefully the referral credit will go to Randyk47.

Thank you. I don’t refer people to Pavlus and Annette for the referral credit. A fellow cruiser, now deceased, shared her information with me years ago. I like to pay it forward and share with others like my late friend did. Have a great cruise!

No you didn't. IIRC, I asked you for refer me. :) Thanks again.

Again thank you so much. I received an email from Pavlus you had booked a cruise. Enjoy!

Explora.....about to board for 2nd time. First was 21 days and never more than 200 passengers. Next week looks like about 700 passengers. Not a ship I want to be on with over 500. It's a ship offering dining experience on par with the two Europa ships. Far, far above what you will find on the so called luxury ships marketed in North America. We'll see how long it lasts.

Same here - pay it forward to other fellow travelers! A number of times I have recommended Annette and never bothered inquiring about the referral credit - just trying to help out another cruiser and who doesn't like to save money, especially for cruises that average $1,000 day

I've oft heard that Explora ships with anything close to a full complement of pax is not good. What are the exact issues of a fuller ship?

At least MSC (at least the main container division) made a mint last year so have lots to spend on the brand. Just hope the good times last through May.

Explora currently at 500 passengers +/-50. Pretty consistent count for four weeks. We do early dinners, so not a good judge of restaurant crowding. Besides food, the crew is top notch at management level. Overall feel that ship not crowded at 500. But to answer your question about issues of a fuller ship. Personally, I do not want to be around so many humans. 500 seems tolerable, but not nearly close to perfect as 200.

Looks like Craig Pavlus will be co-hosting some marketing e-seminar from Explora One on my sailing. Just received the rebate cheque last week. 11% of total fare is sweet especially when I booked the cruise at 1/2 off.

If anyone has any questions or issues they want to raise with Craig Pavlus, PM me.

Would someone like to refer me to Pavlus? I'd like to get some quotes from them and if someone can benefit from this, it sounds like a win.

sent you a pm

Hope you're pleasantly surprised by how much you can save not using a regular TA.

I'm also surprised how much people rave about Pavlus when I'm having so much trouble just getting a quote from them. Can't save anything if they don't respond.

That is sad to hear.

Are you calling or emailing? I find emails are best

Are you providing a specific cruise and pricing in your communication and asking what their price would be? I have no idea about any cruise lines aside from a few lines. Silversea and Seabourn,—the discount is around 9-10%. Viking is 0%, but some OBCs are given. Not sure about Ponant or any other lines.

Email. I asked for pricing and benefits for a list of specific cruises on Silversea, Seabourn, and Ponant. I got no response to my first email and "I'll get those to you today" on my followup. I'm still waiting.

Sorry to hear. I sometimes need to followup as well, which is frustrating. I think it is the trade off when getting thousands in discounts. Still, as a potential new client, poor customer service. Did you try the general 800 number listed on the website? I never did that, so don’t know how that works.

Which agent or no specific one? My first attempt at Pavlus wasn't great but the agent I used last year was much, much better.

I've noticed my husband's emails to Pavlus get a much faster response than mine - I'm hoping it's not sexist and rather that he made the first contact years ago and is potentially listed as the main contact in their computer? And I also find that short/discrete questions are answered much more quickly than if I ask a broad "what river cruises longer than 7 days do you have" or whatever I asked last fall (it wasn't that I couldn't look up the cruises on my own - I had - but so many were sold out/almost sold out - I wanted a pro to tell me remaining options). Our original TA from Pavlus retired during COVID, as did so many people, and the new one hasn't been as responsive over all. But that's why I mainly use TAs to check the best pricing/rebates/perks...