Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC)
Jul 13, 2019, 3:20 pm
#661
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 349
While not 100% effective, I've observed contactless avoiding DCC, either with the card or mobile payment, consistently in all known DCC locations that I've seen personally. I know this is not universal given the data points from above, but I would say the protection is highly effective.
It's rare though and every single time it's happened automatically (ignoring when the person behind the counter messes up), it's been restaurants.
Jul 14, 2019, 8:58 am
#662
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 182
Data point regarding Canada: Except for an airport ATM, I didn't see a single instance of DCC. The airport ATM respected the choice to have visa do the conversion and was not overly aggressive.
This was for 4 days, everything from the local corner supermarket to spots in touristy areas to even the airport duty free. Purchases were a mix of contactless card, google pay, and chip (no pin or signature).
This was for 4 days, everything from the local corner supermarket to spots in touristy areas to even the airport duty free. Purchases were a mix of contactless card, google pay, and chip (no pin or signature).
Jul 14, 2019, 12:34 pm
#663
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
Data point regarding Canada: Except for an airport ATM, I didn't see a single instance of DCC. The airport ATM respected the choice to have visa do the conversion and was not overly aggressive.
This was for 4 days, everything from the local corner supermarket to spots in touristy areas to even the airport duty free. Purchases were a mix of contactless card, google pay, and chip (no pin or signature).
This was for 4 days, everything from the local corner supermarket to spots in touristy areas to even the airport duty free. Purchases were a mix of contactless card, google pay, and chip (no pin or signature).
I've seen DCC in taxis and in a couple of restaurants. It's not the norm. Recent data points have all been in British Columbia.
Jul 15, 2019, 9:37 am
#664
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 182
It definitely exists, but it's not forced as long as you know to decline it. In Canada, the customer should have control of the payment terminal the entire transaction, so the customer should be able to select appropriately for any DCC prompts.
I've seen DCC in taxis and in a couple of restaurants. It's not the norm. Recent data points have all been in British Columbia.
I've seen DCC in taxis and in a couple of restaurants. It's not the norm. Recent data points have all been in British Columbia.
Jul 15, 2019, 12:55 pm
#665
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
I would agree that contactless does seem to avoid a DCC prompt in most cases. I am unsure if it is by design or the folks that design the DCC software have not gotten around to updating the software flow yet.
Yes, I did find one major retailer in the UK that still forced the DCC prompt on tap transactions. It was about 3-5% above the wholesale rate and did seem unique. It was not difficult to opt-out, but it definitely is possible to get the prompt even with a NFC tap.
Yes, I did find one major retailer in the UK that still forced the DCC prompt on tap transactions. It was about 3-5% above the wholesale rate and did seem unique. It was not difficult to opt-out, but it definitely is possible to get the prompt even with a NFC tap.
Jul 15, 2019, 1:10 pm
#666
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Programs: BA GGL, BA LTG/GFL, Honors Diamond, Accor Platinum, Bonvoy Silver
Posts: 718
A new method (to me) of DCC in the UAE, at St Regis Hotel Abu Dhabi.
Bill presented in AED.
Cashier confirms AED.
Card inserted and AED amount shows asking for PIN.
PIN typed in, terminal says “approved, remove card.”
15 seconds after card removal, terminal says “DCC check in progress.”
Terminal then offers AED or (in my case) GBP. No presentation of the rate offered, just amounts of AED or GBP. The GBP was 7% over the rate I obtained from my bank, using AED.
So unless you loiter by the terminal after you’ve paid and taken your card, you won’t see the DCC prompt, and may have lost control of the terminal at that point, so unknowingly get DCCd.
No terminal signature slip with a tick box to confirm currency choice.
Naughty.
Bill presented in AED.
Cashier confirms AED.
Card inserted and AED amount shows asking for PIN.
PIN typed in, terminal says “approved, remove card.”
15 seconds after card removal, terminal says “DCC check in progress.”
Terminal then offers AED or (in my case) GBP. No presentation of the rate offered, just amounts of AED or GBP. The GBP was 7% over the rate I obtained from my bank, using AED.
So unless you loiter by the terminal after you’ve paid and taken your card, you won’t see the DCC prompt, and may have lost control of the terminal at that point, so unknowingly get DCCd.
No terminal signature slip with a tick box to confirm currency choice.
Naughty.
Jul 15, 2019, 1:37 pm
#667
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
I would agree that contactless does seem to avoid a DCC prompt in most cases. I am unsure if it is by design or the folks that design the DCC software have not gotten around to updating the software flow yet.
Yes, I did find one major retailer in the UK that still forced the DCC prompt on tap transactions. It was about 3-5% above the wholesale rate and did seem unique. It was not difficult to opt-out, but it definitely is possible to get the prompt even with a NFC tap.
Yes, I did find one major retailer in the UK that still forced the DCC prompt on tap transactions. It was about 3-5% above the wholesale rate and did seem unique. It was not difficult to opt-out, but it definitely is possible to get the prompt even with a NFC tap.
PIN typed in, terminal says “approved, remove card.”
15 seconds after card removal, terminal says “DCC check in progress.”
Terminal then offers AED or (in my case) GBP. No presentation of the rate offered, just amounts of AED or GBP. The GBP was 7% over the rate I obtained from my bank, using AED.
So unless you loiter by the terminal after you’ve paid and taken your card, you won’t see the DCC prompt, and may have lost control of the terminal at that point, so unknowingly get DCCd.
15 seconds after card removal, terminal says “DCC check in progress.”
Terminal then offers AED or (in my case) GBP. No presentation of the rate offered, just amounts of AED or GBP. The GBP was 7% over the rate I obtained from my bank, using AED.
So unless you loiter by the terminal after you’ve paid and taken your card, you won’t see the DCC prompt, and may have lost control of the terminal at that point, so unknowingly get DCCd.
Jul 15, 2019, 1:57 pm
#668
Join Date: Oct 2007
Programs: AA, WN, UA, Bonvoy, Hertz
Posts: 2,491
I get that DCC is bad, but what is even worse is the VAT refund process. The companies (retailer and processing company) take so much of the refund that it is ridiculous. Now, you can't even get a card VAT refund without them putting a forced exchange fee unless your card is in the currency of the original transaction. Belongs in a different thread I know...
Jul 15, 2019, 3:04 pm
#669
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
This was Harrods (downtown location).
I get that DCC is bad, but what is even worse is the VAT refund process. The companies (retailer and processing company) take so much of the refund that it is ridiculous. Now, you can't even get a card VAT refund without them putting a forced exchange fee unless your card is in the currency of the original transaction. Belongs in a different thread I know...
I get that DCC is bad, but what is even worse is the VAT refund process. The companies (retailer and processing company) take so much of the refund that it is ridiculous. Now, you can't even get a card VAT refund without them putting a forced exchange fee unless your card is in the currency of the original transaction. Belongs in a different thread I know...
The VAT refund process is a scam and has been talked about here for lack of a better thread. I scoured the options with Global Blue, and there weren't any good solutions. Even getting a cash refund in local currency had a fee. The only way would be getting a refund to a Visa/MC that has a native currency of the country in which the refund was processed. However, since EU country residents are ineligible for the refunds, I don't know how common it would be where one would have a Euro denominated card if not a resident.
Jul 15, 2019, 3:06 pm
#670
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Thanks. I remember percysmith had an issue with Harrods a number of years ago, but I think they've fixed their implementation. I haven't purchased anything from the Knightsbridge location since before I had contactless cards and mobile payment options. The airport location disallowed a mobile payment about to years ago saying it exceeded the limit.
The VAT refund process is a scam and has been talked about here for lack of a better thread. I scoured the options with Global Blue, and there weren't any good solutions. Even getting a cash refund in local currency had a fee. The only way would be getting a refund to a Visa/MC that has a native currency of the country in which the refund was processed. However, since EU country residents are ineligible for the refunds, I don't know how common it would be where one would have a Euro denominated card if not a resident.
The VAT refund process is a scam and has been talked about here for lack of a better thread. I scoured the options with Global Blue, and there weren't any good solutions. Even getting a cash refund in local currency had a fee. The only way would be getting a refund to a Visa/MC that has a native currency of the country in which the refund was processed. However, since EU country residents are ineligible for the refunds, I don't know how common it would be where one would have a Euro denominated card if not a resident.
Jul 15, 2019, 3:09 pm
#671
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
I was thinking about Revolut, but what would be the card's native currency? I haven't figured out a way to get the full VAT refund without Global Blue getting a cut. Yes, it's better than nothing, but I remember taking a DCC level hit to the refund amount the one time I did it in Europe.
Jul 15, 2019, 3:14 pm
#672
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I was thinking about Revolut, but what would be the card's native currency? I haven't figured out a way to get the full VAT refund without Global Blue getting a cut. Yes, it's better than nothing, but I remember taking a DCC level hit to the refund amount the one time I did it in Europe.
It's also possible they use the BIN or some other mechanism for determining the "native" currency, despite multi-currency cards IIRC officially being a thing in the MC rules.
Jul 22, 2019, 3:47 am
#673
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: DL, OZ, AC, AS, AA, BA, Hilton, Hyatt, Marriott, IHG
Posts: 19,899
It definitely exists, but it's not forced as long as you know to decline it. In Canada, the customer should have control of the payment terminal the entire transaction, so the customer should be able to select appropriately for any DCC prompts.
I've seen DCC in taxis and in a couple of restaurants. It's not the norm. Recent data points have all been in British Columbia.
I've seen DCC in taxis and in a couple of restaurants. It's not the norm. Recent data points have all been in British Columbia.
Aug 7, 2019, 1:30 pm
#675
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SJC
Programs: AA, AS, Marriott
Posts: 6,060
Fellow member terryversay encountered DCC at ZRH duty free store while using Apple Pay with a US Bank Altitude. This confirms another instance in Switzerland where DCC was still present even with a contactless payment. He was able to opt out successfully and proceed with the charge in CHF.
