Jan 16, 2017, 6:55 am
Last edit by: storewanderer
Older (archived) threads: 2014-16
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- What is EMV contactless?
EMV contactless is a form of contactless/NFC that uses the same security and encryption that is used when inserting a chip card into an EMV-enabled terminal. Other than not having to sign/enter a PIN for smaller transactions, the security is effectively the same as chip and PIN/chip and signature.
In contrast, MSD contactless is an older version that is designed just and only for the United States. This effectively uses much the same flow as a swiped card transaction with the same rules.
- What is CDCVM?
CDCVM stands for Consumer Device Cardholder Verification Method. It's a method of telling the terminal that the customer verified their identity using their mobile device. Terminals that support it will waive the signature/PIN requirement typically in place for larger transactions, potentially saving time at checkout.
More info: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202527
- Does EMV contactless need to be supported to support CDCVM?
Typically, yes. (However, there are some exceptions below.)
- Why can't I tap my foreign-issued contactless card at most places in the US?
This is likely because the store does not support EMV contactless. Foreign issued contactless cards typically do not support MSD contactless since other markets have had EMV for quite some time. In contrast, most stores in the US have yet to get the necessary certifications/software for EMV contactless so they are typically MSD-only--if contactless is enabled at all. (See below for a list of stores where your card will likely work.)
- I paid for a purchase with Apple/Android/Samsung Pay and still had to sign for it.
Most likely, the store in question does not have EMV contactless enabled (see above question). However, there are instances where CDCVM does not work even with EMV contactless enabled. Restaurants that allow tip adjust, for example--where the tip amount is written on a paper receipt and entered by the staff later--cannot support CDCVM. It may simply be a matter of the merchant's processor or the POS software in use not supporting it too.
Another common reason is if you used a US-issued AmEx card with a mobile wallet. AmEx currently does not allow EMV contactless support in mobile wallets for these cards, so they always run as MSD contactless. Because of this, CDCVM is not supported (with very few exceptions, as noted below).
Note: if you used Samsung Pay, you may have paid with MST instead of NFC. Since MST emulates the magnetic pulses that the terminal receives when swiping a regular card, the normal magstripe rules apply.
- How can I tell whether EMV contactless was used?
An easy way to tell if you have Apple Pay is to pay with a Visa or MC while in airplane mode. Wallet will then show a transaction amount next to "Payment" for the card that was used. Alternatively, EMV-related information will typically print on the receipt (AID, etc.) if EMV contactless was used.
(Non-exhaustive) list of EMV contactless supporting merchants in the US:
- 7-Eleven
- 99 Ranch
- Albertsons (Safeway, Vons, Pak N Save, Jewel, Acme, Shaws, Star, Carrs, Randalls, Tom Thumb, Haggen, Eagle, Lucky UT/SoCal)
- Apple Store*†
- Athleta
- Auntie Anne’s Pretzels
- Banana Republic
- Costco Wholesale
- CVS
- DuaneReade*
- El Pollo Loco
- EG Group US (Quik Stop, Kwik Shop, Tom Thumb, Turkey Hill) Note: cashier must press "Electronic Payment" to activate NFC
- Five Below*
- Five Guys
- GAP
- Grocery Outlet*
- Harmon's Grocery
- H&M*
- Jolibee
- Kohl's*
- Lush Cosmetics*
- Maverik
- McDonald's*
- Meijer
- Old Navy
- Panera Bread
- PetSmart
- Ray's Food Place
- Round Table Pizza
- Royal Farms
- Red Ribbon Bakeshop
- Sheetz
- Sherm's Thunderbird Discount Markets Inc.*
- Sprouts
- Staples*
- Starbucks*
- Subway
- Walgreens*
- Weis Markets
- All businesses that use Square and support contactless*
- All businesses that use Clover and support EMV†**
- All businesses that use First Data standalone terminals (e.g. FD100+FD35, FD130) with EMV enabled**
* CDCVM support confirmed
** CDCVM support depends on store/restaurant
† CDCVM supported in MSD mode
USA contactless credit/debit/transit (2017 - 2021)
Nov 7, 2017, 5:47 pm
#2581
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I dunno, but every single US Clover merchant I've run into has required signature for Apple Pay for months now, even if tip is entered before tap. I'm also fairly sure that at least one or two used to show "device verified" on the receipt, too, which makes me think it was disabled. I have no idea why it would be disabled though.
Nov 7, 2017, 11:05 pm
#2582
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Window Seat
Programs: National Executive, HHonors Gold, IHG Platinum, Hyatt Visitor
Posts: 2,495
Dillards updated to new Verifone pinpads and the four dots show up at the top of the screen along with the "Insert or Swipe Card" prompt.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Nov 7, 2017, 11:42 pm
#2583
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
Dillards updated to new Verifone pinpads and the four dots show up at the top of the screen along with the "Insert or Swipe Card" prompt.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
I wonder if Dillards is also trying to push through an EMV contactless transaction for some reason despite not being certified/enabled.
Nov 8, 2017, 2:21 am
#2584
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,537
Dillards updated to new Verifone pinpads and the four dots show up at the top of the screen along with the "Insert or Swipe Card" prompt.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Nov 8, 2017, 3:49 am
#2585
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,722
Dillards updated to new Verifone pinpads and the four dots show up at the top of the screen along with the "Insert or Swipe Card" prompt.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Nov 8, 2017, 5:17 am
#2586
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 1,592
I tried the Apple Pay Cash card at Giant last night. First tap resulted in “Could Not Complete Payment” on the phone and “CARD READ ERROR” on the terminal, but second tap went through fine. For a moment, I thought Discover tap may not be accepted at all.
I pressed the green key to skip PIN entry, yet I still got a cashback prompt. I chose none, but I’m surprised I got the prompt without even typing in the PIN. Is this because of Discover’s cashback at checkout program with their credit cards? I was under the impression of that having been discontinued, given I never hear about it.
I reckon it would have declined anyway, given prepaid cards generally don’t allow you to get cashback. The balance also didn’t print on the receipt, meaning Green Dot aren’t returning that info in the auth response. I think that’s a bad sign for partial authorisation support, and Giant definitely support it for prepaid cards from other networks/issuers.
I think I’ll stick with Square Cash. I’m not a big fan of needing to provide bank account info for cashouts. (They could have used debit card cashouts and even taken advantage of Mastercard Send/Visa Direct, but that takes away a reason for people to use the intermediary prepaid card - instant availability of funds. It would cost Apple more than ACH anyway.)
I’m curious what the CVM list is for this card. I’ll see later what I can find.
I pressed the green key to skip PIN entry, yet I still got a cashback prompt. I chose none, but I’m surprised I got the prompt without even typing in the PIN. Is this because of Discover’s cashback at checkout program with their credit cards? I was under the impression of that having been discontinued, given I never hear about it.
I reckon it would have declined anyway, given prepaid cards generally don’t allow you to get cashback. The balance also didn’t print on the receipt, meaning Green Dot aren’t returning that info in the auth response. I think that’s a bad sign for partial authorisation support, and Giant definitely support it for prepaid cards from other networks/issuers.
I think I’ll stick with Square Cash. I’m not a big fan of needing to provide bank account info for cashouts. (They could have used debit card cashouts and even taken advantage of Mastercard Send/Visa Direct, but that takes away a reason for people to use the intermediary prepaid card - instant availability of funds. It would cost Apple more than ACH anyway.)
I’m curious what the CVM list is for this card. I’ll see later what I can find.
Nov 8, 2017, 5:51 am
#2587
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Indianapolis area
Programs: Marriott Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 436
Cashback from Discover is very much alive. Haven't used it recently but it's handy when you need it.
http://https://www.discover.com/cred...purchases.html
http://https://www.discover.com/cred...purchases.html
Nov 8, 2017, 7:56 am
#2588
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
I suspect CDCVM and signature would be all that's supported on the credit side. I have not seen any US-issued card in Apple Pay support PIN, even ones whose EMV chips prefer PIN (like Diners Club).
Nov 8, 2017, 8:44 am
#2589
Join Date: Oct 2014
Programs: Skymiles
Posts: 3,251
Dillards updated to new Verifone pinpads and the four dots show up at the top of the screen along with the "Insert or Swipe Card" prompt.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Tried a Contactless transaction at Dillards and it appeared to process but ultimately declined.
It shows up on my phone with the total purchase amount and "Declined" similar to what happens when I have attempted a Contactless transaction at a Shell Gas Pump with a Contactless reader.
Nov 8, 2017, 10:28 am
#2590
Join Date: Mar 2017
Programs: HHonors, TrueBlue, Delta SkyMiles, Hyatt Discoverist, Starwood Preferred Guest, American Airlines.
Posts: 2,035
I'm not picking on you or singling you out, but does anyone really think Apple would do their customers a favor and eat the fee for instant transfers? Apple only adds a feature if it benefits Apple, not anyone else, that's why Apple charges a fee to the banks for payments conducted through Apple Pay. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple were taking a cut from the bank to conduct P2P Apple Pay transactions too.
If Apple wasn't able to get the banks to sign on to paying small portion of the interchange fees over to them, they wouldn't have offered mobile payments at all... It's just the kind of company Apple is now, they no longer come up with technology just have them in the products and benefit the rest of the world like under Steve Jobs.
Nov 8, 2017, 10:31 am
#2591
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: RSW
Programs: Delta - Silver; UA - Silver; HHonors - Diamond; IHG - Spire Ambassador; Marriott Bonvoy - Titanium
Posts: 14,185
When I bought a laptop at Best Buy, I tapped for NFC with my FirstTech card and a signature was required.
Nov 8, 2017, 11:01 am
#2592
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: GE, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 15,507
If Apple wasn't able to get the banks to sign on to paying small portion of the interchange fees over to them, they wouldn't have offered mobile payments at all... It's just the kind of company Apple is now, they no longer come up with technology just have them in the products and benefit the rest of the world like under Steve Jobs.
Last I went to Best Buy (which was a while ago), they didn't support EMV contactless at all. This may have changed, though.
Nov 8, 2017, 11:03 am
#2593
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Nov 8, 2017, 11:04 am
#2594
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
Nov 8, 2017, 11:05 am
#2595
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,516
I dunno, but every single US Clover merchant I've run into has required signature for Apple Pay for months now, even if tip is entered before tap. I'm also fairly sure that at least one or two used to show "device verified" on the receipt, too, which makes me think it was disabled. I have no idea why it would be disabled though.