New Ebay Checkout - PayPal DCC
 

I said "I'm not sure if a MC 4846 chargeback would work..."
Anyone care to enlighten me?
The ebay checkout showed GBP but my MC was billed in $AUD so does this count?

I don't see why not:

MC Chargeback Guide p.286 "The cardholder states he or she was not given the opportunity to choose the desired currency in which the transactions was completed or did not agree to the currency of the transaction"

You can use the second ground

Paypal Currency Choice
 

@percysmith...thanks for your take on MC 4846 which was also what my cc provider confirmed.
My fear with a chargeback is that paypal may hit the ebay sellers (both excellent) for their own error which might be a possibility and just nasty
Your screenshots of the Paypal portal were how I remember my previous purchases where I had a choice...maybe this is the previous 'classic' UI?
Paypal insist there should have been a 2nd page after the pay button was hit with the option of currency choice but this never happened.
Anyway, lesson learned and time to open a paypal account with the appropriate billing settings for future purchases.
Have now also raised a complaint with the financial ombudsman as paypal just ignore e-mails and will see if this results in a refund of the DCC.

I think so. The screens you were hit with look more like these don't they http://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/15295?page=3 #23?

(I accidentally bought three Alsa bus tickets generating those screenshots, thankfully Alsa showed me how to refund with little fee)

(If your card wasn't opted-out of DCC before payment) clicking the $1.00 HKD = €0.110662888 EUR would have given you the currency choice.

That wasn't the most obvious place to click. Until I was told that's where you're meant to opt-out before payment ://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/15295?page=3 #28, I would have imagined that exchange rate is a statement and not a link.

I made a few complaints to Paypal over the "You'll be able to review your order before you complete your purchase" statement because that's what made me complete three errorneous purchase that I had to refund with Alsa. Paypal's response was (twice) "this is more to do with the integration between the merchant's website".

That will solve the DCC problem. Until Paypal "enhances" their website again.

Still won't give you the 2nd review page though.

(I'm a former Australian) I'm not sure the FOS will accept Paypal as part of its purview but I'll be very interested to hear further if they do.

Any chance ACCC will also take up a complaint?

In HK our regulators won't:

- so far as I know Paypal (even with local incorporation https://www.paypal.com/hk/webapps/mp...locale.x=en_HK ) is not subject to the purview of the HK Monetary Authority - it will just argue its a financial services provider, not a HKMA licence holder (mainly banks and credit providers have to be licenced - even American Express Hong Kong is not licenced with the HKMA)

- our closest equivalent of the ACCC (Consumer Council of Hong Kong) has no enforcement powers and can do nothing other than to name and shame really egregious cases

- I've taken one non-compliant acquirer in China (Bank of China Limited, one that keeps recurring in http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...er-thread.html ) http://forum.hongkongcard.com/forumSE/show/11430?page=6 #58 up with Visa Hong Kong and MasterCard International over distributing non-compliant DCC instructions (basically BoC told merchants to opt-in cardholders into DCC).

Visa HK basically routed my letter to /dev/null . MasterCard followed up but they seem to be more concerned about an actual case (making sure bank charges back by 4846) more than taking the acquirer to task over their instructions to merchants.

(After the BoC episode I don't think I'll get anywhere further contacting either again over Paypal's practices)

"...clicking the $1.00 HKD = €0.110662888 EUR would have given you the currency choice..."

It was worse than that...no currency details or choice at all (apart from GBP 36.95)

This is a screenshot for a 'dummy run' of the same item at the 'new' ebay checkout

No paypal account at the time so selected cc/dc and put in my cc details.

Address/name/phone etc were pre-filled from my ebay login (removed)

After my cc details were loaded a tickbox appeared under 'Confirm and pay' which I accepted

Hit the pay button, a few seconds of whirring but no 2nd page they insisted would appear and then all done...a receipt appeared.

Logged into cc transaction history and GBP36.95 had been DCC'd by paypal into $AUD 61.75

My MC would have transacted at $AUD 59 (0% loading)

PayPal (Au) Response To Complaint
 

Got a pretty unhelpful response from PayPal to my complaint...

Is their assertion that they have 'no control' and 'no authority' to alter the option (ie DCC) correct?



01 November 2016

Reference number: 3*****0

Dear K** M*****,

Thank you for contacting PayPal. Your complaint has been forwarded to the Executive Escalations department; please allow me to address your concerns further.

I appreciate that it may be frustrating to not have been provided with an option to select which service provider converted the currency however while PayPal may process card payments on behalf of merchants we do not control or have any authority to alter the option provided to you when you have not registered for an account with us.

Mr M*****, I regret any inconvenience this matter may have caused you.

If you have any questions or require additional information, please contact us at [email protected].

Alternatively, if you are not satisfied with PayPal's resolution or handling of your dispute you may wish to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service Australia:

Phone: 1800 367 287

Financial Ombudsman Service Australia
GPO Box 3
MELBOURNE VIC 3001
Fax: (03) 9613 6399

PayPal is a member of the Financial Ombudsman Service Australia, an independent external dispute resolution scheme covering PayPal's Australian Customers. For more information on the Financial Ombudsman Service you can also consult their website at www.fos.org.au.

Yours sincerely,

A*** Be****
Executive Escalations
PayPal


PayPal Australia Pty Limited.

Copyright © 1999-2016 PayPal. All rights reserved. PayPal Australia Pty Limited ABN 93 111 195 389 (PPA) holds an Australian Financial Services Licence, number 304962. Any general financial product advice provided in this email is provided by PPA and has not taken into account your objectives, financial situations or needs.

I got this too. I think their current SOP is to blame someone else.

(I was a logged in member, they couldn't fob me off that way)

I think it's a red herring, there is no other party involved. I communicated with my merchant and they made it abundantly clear the DCC option is not their thing.

They're just stonewalling - betting that (such as in my case) Visa and Mastercard don't care, and there is no ombudsman who would do anything to them.

+1 re ombudsman judging by their response...feels like a bait so I suspect they've been there with no consequences

I'm thinking it could be a waste of time chasing this through the FOS, ACCC etc

The 'watchdogs' in oz have no teeth just look at the ACCC versus Coles/Woolies fuel pricing duopoly which has been investigated time and time again without consequence

Yet come a public holiday weekend fuel prices rocket because they know folks will travel.

Still can't be any better in HK can it?

Good idea contacting the merchants and I'm also coming around to a chargeback (principle rather than $$$) as recommended in the main DCC thread

No I meant the Financial Ombusman Service may be willing to hear you out.

Although I would suggest a chargeback in your specific case, and then going around to the Ombudsman to discuss the general case afterwards.

"....there is no ombudsman who would do anything to them..."

Sorry percysmith I misunderstood you from the above

Sounds like you might have faith in the oz FOS to investigate

Yup I'm also thinking chargeback first and then ombudsman

Have e-mailed the ebay merchants to see what they say as paypal is effectively blaming them for the dcc

Have you had any success with a chargeback for dcc and do mc/visa chargeback the full amount amount or just the dcc overcharge?

PayPal refunds fees
 

Initiated a MC chargeback and after a few days they contacted me to refund their transaction fees...

Will use my account next time, too much hassle otherwise

They said:

Generally, if there is a conversion to occur on any transaction you are presented with the cost and provided with the option to choose who will complete the conversion.

I apologise if this did not occur for you during this transaction and I am more than happy to refund the difference to you. Can you please confirm the rate you would have expected and the difference that has been charged?

If you have any questions or require additional information, please contact us at [email protected].



Alternatively, if you are not satisfied with PayPal's resolution or handling of your dispute you may wish to contact the Financial Ombudsman Service Australia:

I just ran into this today using PayPal as part of an eBay purchase of a Samsung tablet case in the UK & being delivered to my US address. I was not given any other choice but to pay in USD using PP's conversion rates. I looked all over the page and saw no opt out option. Just options to pay with other credit cards, bank accounts, etc. I was using the EBay iPad app, so don't know if this would have also happened on a Windows PC. In the end it wasn't a huge difference, $7.98 vs $8.22 but the principal still stands. P.S. All my credit cards saved with Pay Pal have been previously opted out of PP's DCC, so this should never have happened.

Avoid PayPal mobile and apps if you can http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/credi...l#post26621296

.....

THANK YOU - just found this post via Google. Surprised that they haven't moved the page to make it even more difficult.