U.K. Government response to the Omicron variant
Of course, I’m no expert, but looking at what seems to be emerging in the early days of this new variant:
It may be significantly more transmissible than the Delta variant. It also appears to have the vaccine/immunity-evading qualities of the Beta variant (the South Africa variant from early this year) - the variant which was swamped because Delta was more transmissible…. Very, very roughly, that would mean the protection against symptomatic infection is halved. Against serious illness - not clear, from what I’ve read. And if I understand a fairly technical observation from a serious expert on Twitter, it might also prove resistant to some of the new Covid-fighting drugs that are coming to the market. Caveat from all concerned - it’s early days, and there’s much yet to learn. Twitter threads worth your time: |
After the complete and utter kicking the government took over the Delta variant, it was inevitable there was going to be a strong reaction. I hope this proves with hindsight to be an overreaction, but I don't think the UK will be alone in implementing a flight ban.
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Sounds like a worrying development. I wonder how quickly the red list will grow if this variant is already spreading internationally. Wondering whether I ought to think about cancelling my USA visit next week now. Am I being overly cautious?
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Originally Posted by DrGee
(Post 33759783)
Sounds like a worrying development. I wonder how quickly the red list will grow if this variant is already spreading internationally. Wondering whether I ought to think about cancelling my USA visit next week now. Am I being overly cautious?
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Reports are saying EU now looking at banning all flights from southern Africa as well.
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Travel ban by Italy announced this morning, Germany announced they are also imposing restrictions from this evening, if you are looking to fly back to the U.K. via the EU get moving fast.
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Originally Posted by lost_in_translation
(Post 33759930)
Travel ban by Italy announced this morning, Germany announced they are also imposing restrictions from this evening, if you are looking to fly back to the U.K. via the EU get moving fast.
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Can't say I'm happy at the news, but if the travel ban slows down this variant by two weeks, it will mean that a surge could be delayed until after Christmas, and there will be another 5M boosters in arms. Both of those are worthwhile aims, even if 2022 ends up looking more like 2020 than we would wish.
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But - let's assume the UK would not act quickly and flights continue. This variant would almost certainly end up here eventually, The travel restrictions you are seeing now are only there so that politicians can show that you acting - nothing more. |
Originally Posted by warakorn
(Post 33759944)
This is wrong thinking. That new ZA variant has already arrived in Europe. It just had not been officially detected yet. But if that surfaced in Israel and China -> well, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to know that this variant had already spread globally, incl. Europe.
The travel restrictions you are seeing now are only there so that politicians can show that you acting - nothing more. |
Originally Posted by lost_in_translation
(Post 33759962)
This is somewhat off topic for a thread specifically about the U.K. and South Africa but I’ll bite because I’m getting quite tired of seeing overly simplistic posts saying things like this on FT. Sure, it’s definitely more widespread than we realise, but there is a lot more to this decision than you are representing, delaying the spread of the variant by a couple of weeks is the difference between millions more boosters in arms and not before the wave hits during a time where hospitals may already be under strain during winter. It is potentially also the difference between being in lockdown over Christmas and not. To me, that is ample justification regardless of the politics.
I think the key point is that whilst red lists and flight bans will not stop the new variant, if it is as transmissible as early reports suggest, from arriving in UK (or anywhere else), it will delay the spread and buy some time. Hopefully this time will permit scientists to properly understand what this variant brings and enable countries to prepare accordingly. |
Originally Posted by Duck1981
(Post 33759889)
I know this development is frustrating for everyone with SA travel plans.
But - let's assume the UK would not act quickly and flights continue. This variant would almost certainly end up here eventually, and given the vast amount of testing and genotype assay testing (much more than in most other countries) we would detect this variant first here in Europe. Result would be a big media drama plus tough entry restrictions on everyone flying out of the UK, or a complete flight ban (the story of the Delta strain repeating). So in the end, many many more travel plans would be affected. |
Originally Posted by HarryHolden68
(Post 33760034)
No amount of lockdowns, flight bans and hotel quarantine has prevented any other variant arriving in the UK. It didn't even work for Australia. If it is readily transmissible and can compete against Delta, it will spread around the planet as the others have.
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Three is a difference between having a few people in the country with the variant, versus having 4 daily nonstop flights bringing 100s more every day. the variant will indeed arrive and become seeded in the UK - but stopping nonstop flights and strongly discouraging travel means fewer people will be bringing it in over the next few week and so the variant it will take longer to become dominant in the UK, in which time more boosters will be given and more will be known about the treatment/mitigation plans needed for the variant (if any)
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What's the exit strategy?
The thread has already wandered close to Omni, so:
For those of you who think that this is an appropriate response, can you tell me what you think our exit strategy from Covid might be? The scientists have always known that Covid (being a coronavirus) will mutate, so this development is expected - and still it has caused the shutdown of international travel with 24 hours notice. The lockdowns and restrictions of the last 18 months were sold as being necessary 'until we had a vaccine', but we've now got a vaccine, and boosters, and still HMG shuts down travel with 24 hours notice. Covid will keep mutating, for ever (cf flu) - so do we accept that these sorts of instant travel restrictions will be permanent? Or what? Is there an exit strategy? Or is this the new normal? Because if it is, I'm selling my IAG shares. |
Originally Posted by Stewie Mac
(Post 33760070)
The thread has already wandered close to Omni, so:
For those of you who think that this is an appropriate response, can you tell me what you think our exit strategy from Covid might be? The scientists have always known that Covid (being a coronavirus) will mutate, so this development is expected - and still it has caused the shutdown of international travel with 24 hours notice. The lockdowns and restrictions of the last 18 months were sold as being necessary 'until we had a vaccine', but we've now got a vaccine, and boosters, and still HMG shuts down travel with 24 hours notice. Covid will keep mutating, for ever (cf flu) - so do we accept that these sorts of instant travel restrictions will be permanent? Or what? Is there an exit strategy? Or is this the new normal? Because if it is, I'm selling my IAG shares. There isn't an exit strategy, because no one has ever planned for an event like this. |
Originally Posted by andrewr1985
(Post 33760074)
Everyone was mis-sold on the benefits of vaccination, vaccination won't prevent infection or transmission but will help prevent serious illness and/or hospitalisation. We are still at the early stage of this pandemic, not helped by the terrible communication and planning most national governments had in place to deal with this kind of situation. Spanish flu took 2 years to settle, and that was without everyone jetting all over the world, and the virus that caused it is still vaccinated against in the general annual flu shot.
There isn't an exit strategy, because no one has ever planned for an event like this. so much for a DODAR. |
Originally Posted by lost_in_translation
(Post 33759962)
This is somewhat off topic for a thread specifically about the U.K. and South Africa but I’ll bite because I’m getting quite tired of seeing overly simplistic posts saying things like this on FT. Sure, it’s definitely more widespread than we realise, but there is a lot more to this decision than you are representing, delaying the spread of the variant by a couple of weeks is the difference between millions more boosters in arms and not before the wave hits during a time where hospitals may already be under strain during winter. It is potentially also the difference between being in lockdown over Christmas and not. To me, that is ample justification regardless of the politics.
This country hasn't exactly handled things well so far, but compared to our European neighbours we're in a good place - all without the need to wear masks in the street and be able to have a pint inside - something I'd be keen to keep that way. What does really frustrate me is the number of crew I see on social media kicking off about vaccination, passports and potential travel changes, but they fail to see the bigger picture - in that whilst some destinations may sadly be off limits - things are likely to be in a much better place thanks to these measures being reimposed temporarily.. it's just unfortunate that some folk within the travel industry don't realise their job depends on these being in place; avoiding us being stuck in our homes over the winter months.. and being in the air. |
Originally Posted by Stewie Mac
(Post 33760070)
The thread has already wandered close to Omni, so:
For those of you who think that this is an appropriate response, can you tell me what you think our exit strategy from Covid might be? The scientists have always known that Covid (being a coronavirus) will mutate, so this development is expected - and still it has caused the shutdown of international travel with 24 hours notice. The lockdowns and restrictions of the last 18 months were sold as being necessary 'until we had a vaccine', but we've now got a vaccine, and boosters, and still HMG shuts down travel with 24 hours notice. Covid will keep mutating, for ever (cf flu) - so do we accept that these sorts of instant travel restrictions will be permanent? Or what? Is there an exit strategy? Or is this the new normal? Because if it is, I'm selling my IAG shares. Virologist proposed that vaccination were equally shared with those countries and licenses lifted in order to maximize vaccination in this part of the world. This would have led to decrease in tranmssion, which would have led to decrease in random mutations, which led to a decrease of some of them being viable (because for the one saying "virus mutates": when was the last time you heard about a mutation of the plague, which is an endemic virus ?).They were not listen and rich countries acted against that, lobbied by drug companies. This was predicted, there are text from February 2021 describing that exact situation we are in now. Now we need to wait for the results of the research by the ZA team (several weeks) and refine our knowledge. Hopefully it turns out to be "nothing". But if it is something, the West reap what they sow. |
Originally Posted by fransknorge
(Post 33760486)
This is a year that scientist warn to be wary of the transmission in the south of the African continent. There is a high proportion of the population infected by HIV, meaning a virus can infect such a person for a long time (several months), with a large amount of replication. Probabilties and evolution being what they are, this means a much higher chance of several viable mutations happening within one body. This is how several previous variants are believed to appear and there are already strong suspicion this is the same for this one too.
Virologist proposed that vaccination were equally shared with those countries and licenses lifted in order to maximize vaccination in this part of the world. This would have led to decrease in tranmssion, which would have led to decrease in random mutations, which led to a decrease of some of them being viable (because for the one saying "virus mutates": when was the last time you heard about a mutation of the plague, which is an endemic virus ?).They were not listen and rich countries acted against that, lobbied by drug companies. This was predicted, there are text from February 2021 describing that exact situation we are in now. Now we need to wait for the results of the research by the ZA team (several weeks) and refine our knowledge. Hopefully it turns out to be "nothing". But if it is something, the West reap what they sow. But yes you are quite right, is it right we are giving out boosters in Europe and the US or vaccinating under 18s when many people haven't even had their first jab. Perhaps the anti-vaxxers have a point ;) |
This is really getting Omni now, but Africa has virtually no vaccine manufacturing infrastructure. You don't just hand over a recipe and someone cooks it up, you need enormous amounts of expertise and kit which simply don't exist in place, and then you need to validate your processes. Serum Inst is one of the world's biggest and best vaccine manufacturers, they started setting up in mid 2020 I think, and even they struggled with yield during process set up. Vaccines are complex to manufacture and typically require supply chains stretching round the world - I think I'm right in saying that the "EU Manufactured" AZ destined for Australia and confiscated in Italy was supplied from South America and essentially bottled (fill and finish) in Italy.
The majors are working to get manufacturing facilities set up and in place. But the idea that if the recipes were just handed over there would be instant supply is naïve and wrong headed. One big issue was rich countries reserving production, which is understandable, but there was a lot of support for COVAX beyond immediate need. You can say that in restricting supply to Africa you created a reservoir for new variants to evolve, but it would be difficult politically in any developed country to put the proposition to voters that we will limit supply domestically to increase global coverage, and by the way some of you will die as a result. You pay a price for adversarial politics that weaponises disease. I'm really sympathetic to people who have had plans changed, but for the moment it does seem to me the response to what seems like a dangerous variant is right. |
Originally Posted by lost_in_translation
(Post 33759047)
Your assumption that other European countries won’t follow is also amusing and, I imagine, highly likely to be incorrect.
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I've just checked FR24 & Air France have a flight inbound to CPT. Just saying.
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Originally Posted by Stewie Mac
(Post 33760070)
The thread has already wandered close to Omni, so:
For those of you who think that this is an appropriate response, can you tell me what you think our exit strategy from Covid might be? |
Originally Posted by lost_in_translation
(Post 33759962)
This is somewhat off topic for a thread specifically about the U.K. and South Africa but I’ll bite because I’m getting quite tired of seeing overly simplistic posts saying things like this on FT. Sure, it’s definitely more widespread than we realise, but there is a lot more to this decision than you are representing, delaying the spread of the variant by a couple of weeks is the difference between millions more boosters in arms and not before the wave hits during a time where hospitals may already be under strain during winter. It is potentially also the difference between being in lockdown over Christmas and not. To me, that is ample justification regardless of the politics.
Regardless of the outcome of the variant I hope this will serve as a stark warning to high income countries that hoarding vaccines will only extend the duration of this pandemic. The number one priority is to vaccinate the unvaccinated as quickly as possible. |
Originally Posted by doctoravios
(Post 33761764)
I hope this will serve as a stark warning to high income countries that hoarding vaccines will only extend the duration of this pandemic
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Booster shots and vaccinating under 18s is a form of hoarding.
Those shots would have been better utilized in under developed parts of the world. |
Originally Posted by bisonrav
(Post 33760545)
This is really getting Omni now, but Africa has virtually no vaccine manufacturing infrastructure. You don't just hand over a recipe and someone cooks it up, you need enormous amounts of expertise and kit which simply don't exist in place, and then you need to validate your processes. Serum Inst is one of the world's biggest and best vaccine manufacturers, they started setting up in mid 2020 I think, and even they struggled with yield during process set up. Vaccines are complex to manufacture and typically require supply chains stretching round the world - I think I'm right in saying that the "EU Manufactured" AZ destined for Australia and confiscated in Italy was supplied from South America and essentially bottled (fill and finish) in Italy.
The majors are working to get manufacturing facilities set up and in place. But the idea that if the recipes were just handed over there would be instant supply is naïve and wrong headed. One big issue was rich countries reserving production, which is understandable, but there was a lot of support for COVAX beyond immediate need. You can say that in restricting supply to Africa you created a reservoir for new variants to evolve, but it would be difficult politically in any developed country to put the proposition to voters that we will limit supply domestically to increase global coverage, and by the way some of you will die as a result. You pay a price for adversarial politics that weaponises disease. I'm really sympathetic to people who have had plans changed, but for the moment it does seem to me the response to what seems like a dangerous variant is right. |
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Originally Posted by tracon
(Post 33762067)
Booster shots and vaccinating under 18s is a form of hoarding.
Those shots would have been better utilized in under developed parts of the world. |
And ours just walked straight out at Heathrow, and will do a LFT sometime over next two days…..
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Just to be clear though: the two biggest problems the UK has right now are the 800,000 people with Delta and the 5 million selfish adults who haven't had a jab. Caution is good, but looking at Omicron's layout, the jump in mutations suggests that it has been running around for a while without obviously causing a Delta style impact in terms of deaths. It is showing a pattern of mutations that have been seen before, albeit not in one big jump. South Africa deserves a lot of credit for identifying and sequencing Omicron so quickly, but it would not surprise me if lit started somewhere else. SA is the only country in the region that sequences on any scale. In 2 or 3 weeks we will know what the impact is on vaccines and mortality, but it's interesting that both BioNTech and Oxford don't believe we've hit a road block here.
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Originally Posted by WoodleyBeacon
(Post 33762345)
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Two UK cases identified, basically confirming it is probably in a large percentage of countries already and just hasn't been spotted yet / sequenced. UK may well end up being punished like South Africa for detecting a variant that is probably already everywhere. Now things get interesting...
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Originally Posted by JNelson113
(Post 33762698)
Curious how it could be that 61 out of 600 passengers were positive for covid. Do The Netherlands not require a pre-flight covid test before an international flight is allowed into the country?
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First lesson: Sequencing? Punished No sequencing: OK you are Covid free
What a joke...
Originally Posted by lost_in_translation
(Post 33762738)
Two UK cases identified, basically confirming it is probably in a large percentage of countries already and just hasn't been spotted yet / sequenced. UK may well end up being punished like South Africa for detecting a variant that is probably already everywhere. Now things get interesting...
Originally Posted by Parkdesigner
(Post 33763330)
This has all the makings of a Christmas disaster for those traveling to the UK.
Originally Posted by NewbieRunner
(Post 33763336)
Correct. This is what he said:
“We will require anyone who enters the UK to take a PCR test by the end of the second day after their arrival and to self-isolate until they have a negative result.” |
Oh sheesh, here we go again. What's the old saying, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result." While I hope that I'm wrong, I have zero confidence lockdowns will be worth the price, since...ah...I'd bet it's already here. And, how do you get 10%? Infected on the flight? What kind of testing methodology?
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Even though the current vaccines (plus boosters) may not be effective against OMICRON, headlines about its existance may prod people who are fence sitters re getting vaccinated to take the plunge.
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
(Post 33762753)
Generally yes, but I think they don't require tests or vaccination reports for those transferring at AMS, though the final destination does. But still, it's a jaw dropping number, over 10%
There are very very little statistics on the amount of positive test in test for "leisure": to get a green pass for that day, for travel. The only I saw were done by my regional newspaper who managed to get their hands over a lot of results from providers over the course of several months and found 700 positives over 2 millions test, during the month of may 2021. |
Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
(Post 33762533)
Just to be clear though: the two biggest problems the UK has right now are the 800,000 people with Delta and the 5 million selfish adults who haven't had a jab. Caution is good, but looking at Omicron's layout, the jump in mutations suggests that it has been running around for a while without obviously causing a Delta style impact in terms of deaths. It is showing a pattern of mutations that have been seen before, albeit not in one big jump. South Africa deserves a lot of credit for identifying and sequencing Omicron so quickly, but it would not surprise me if lit started somewhere else. SA is the only country in the region that sequences on any scale. In 2 or 3 weeks we will know what the impact is on vaccines and mortality, but it's interesting that both BioNTech and Oxford don't believe we've hit a road block here.
Please also consider this post as a veiled suggestion to get your own podcast going. I'll support you on Patreon, no questions asked. |
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