Nice While It Lasted -- Now What?

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Jul 6, 2009 | 10:18 pm
  #16  
Quote: The MSP metro area has about 700,000 more people than the Denver metro area (Link) yet Denver is served by CO to the tune of about 11 mainline flights a day...
Well, to be fair 4 of those are from EWR, which I believe is beyond the range of the ERJ.
Jul 6, 2009 | 11:12 pm
  #17  
Quote: Well, to be fair 4 of those are from EWR, which I believe is beyond the range of the ERJ.
Lucky Denver. We'll move MSP farther west in the morning.
Jul 7, 2009 | 6:11 am
  #18  
Quote: While mainline is preferred, I would take a E145 before a CRJ 200 anyday.....
+1.

And until you get Q's in MSP quit crying! Imagine my fate-EWR is Q-ified!!!
Jul 7, 2009 | 10:28 am
  #19  
Quote: Remember Bethune's comment about no airline ever going bankrupt because their airplanes were too small? Kellner and Co. believe it.
But I think there is an equally famous quote out there that airlines who cede market share never get it back. Replacing a mainline flight with 2-3 RJs is still a drop in capacity and potential market share, causing elites to seek airlines that actually offer full service. Bethune also said "If you have to be in San Francisco for a presentation tomorrow, you are going. If I say it's $1,200 or it's $800, you are still going." To which I say, not on an RJ. I'm not going to pay full Y on an RJ if another airline offers F for the same price.

In addition, all these mainline to RJ replacements add to overall congestion and delays for the entire air travel system. I'd much rather plan around a reliable, but infrequent, mainline flight than contend with the delays, cancellations, and crummy experiences that plague the more frequent RJ flights.
Jul 7, 2009 | 10:34 am
  #20  
Quote: But I think there is an equally famous quote out there that airlines who cede market share never get it back. Replacing a mainline flight with 2-3 RJs is still a drop in capacity and potential market share, causing elites to seek airlines that actually offer full service. Bethune also said "If you have to be in San Francisco for a presentation tomorrow, you are going. If I say it's $1,200 or it's $800, you are still going." To which I say, not on an RJ. I'm not going to pay full Y on an RJ if another airline offers F for the same price.
In addition, all these mainline to RJ replacements add to overall congestion and delays for the entire air travel system. I'd much rather plan around a reliable, but infrequent, mainline flight than contend with the delays, cancellations, and crummy experiences that plague the more frequent RJ flights.
Sorry to disagree with you. When I have a busy schedule, I would much prefer frequency over size. I have to stay an extra night in STL later this month because there are no timely flights that allow me to make it to the airport after work is finished. As far as I am concerned, I would rather be home that night using an RJ rather than spending it in a hotel.
Jul 7, 2009 | 10:55 am
  #21  
Quote: The MSP metro area has about 700,000 more people than the Denver metro area (Link) yet Denver is served by CO to the tune of about 11 mainline flights a day (including 752s and 753s). Denver has UA and F9 hubs, and a growing WN infestation. Interesting. May be due to the long history CO has in Denver.
Lot of oil trash traffic between IAH and Denver (large % of which are OnePassers, plus summer/winter vacation activities outside of Denver. A population to population size comparison isn't appropriate. Note also LAS service - smaller population than MSP or DEN, but more service than either, all on mainline a/c. MSP just doesn't support the larger aircraft. It might, albeit w/ less frequency, but it looks like CO's opted to offer more flights on smaller aircraft than fewer on larger ones.
Jul 7, 2009 | 12:51 pm
  #22  
Quote: Lot of oil trash traffic between IAH and Denver (large % of which are OnePassers, plus summer/winter vacation activities outside of Denver. A population to population size comparison isn't appropriate. Note also LAS service - smaller population than MSP or DEN, but more service than either, all on mainline a/c. MSP just doesn't support the larger aircraft. It might, albeit w/ less frequency, but it looks like CO's opted to offer more flights on smaller aircraft than fewer on larger ones.
I thought of that as well...the oil traffic (count me in that) as well as the recreational activities based out of Denver. What Houstonian is his or her right mind doesn't want to come here in the summer and dry out and let the mold flake off?
Jul 7, 2009 | 10:39 pm
  #23  
Quote: And until you get Q's in MSP quit crying! Imagine my fate-EWR is Q-ified!!!
Can I start crying? I fly between EWR and RDU several times a year, and beginning Aug. 31 this route is going from 2 mainline jets to 1. Nearly all the flights are on Q400s... and this flight is over 400 miles long! It really sucks that the 7 PM departure (you know, the one you can take after the business day is over) is going from a 737 to a Q400. I know, I know... business decisions... But the regional jets on airlines from LGA and JFK are starting to look good...
Jul 8, 2009 | 12:45 am
  #24  
Yeah I'm not exactly thrilled about the choice of Q400s (especially with Colgan's training issues) EWR-RDU, nor E145s on the 1043 miles IAH-RDU for my DEN-xxx-RDU flights. Making me reconsider having dumped UA for CO as my primary program. Though the CR7s out of IAD and ERJs from ORD weren't exactly fun either. And CO is more likely than UA to be around a year or so from now.

Frankly, DL/NW is looking better and better for flights into RDU compared to UA or CO. As much as some detest their FF program, in terms of frequencies using mainline, there's a lot more chance of a "real" plane with them.

Insert mandatory WN recommendation here
Aug 17, 2009 | 1:39 pm
  #25  
Re: MSP-CLE
Quote:
MSP-CLE has always been ERJ service
I distinctly remember that in the heydays of the dot.com boom and maybe even into the early 2000s that there was at least 1 737 (and maybe even two) on CLE-MSP (circa about the same time when some CLE-ATL/BUF/BDL flights were 737s in teh hublet's glory days).
Aug 17, 2009 | 3:07 pm
  #26  
Is CO locked into the E145? Have they thought about upgrading to either the E175 or the CRJ-900 with a FC cabin? Yes, it's more capacity (76 versus 50 seats) and two FAs instead of one, but they don't risk driving pax away to competitors. Perhaps I'm an extreme example, but I will go well out of my way to avoid a CRJ-200 or E145 even if only to IAH or MEM to pick up a mainline flight. I recently booked away from CO specifically because their last flight of the day to AUS is now a RJ.
Aug 17, 2009 | 3:10 pm
  #27  
The Pilots contract limits Regional Jets to 50 pax
Aug 17, 2009 | 3:25 pm
  #28  
Quote: It's also likely that you're the exception -- the CO flyer out of MSP. While people may be disappointed in the Deltafication of NW, they didn't necessarily move on.
This is the real bottom line here. NWA had a pretty solid lock on the consumer bases of its hub markets, and most of those people, no matter how disappointed by the FFP changes, simply will not go to another airline because of the major inconvenience caused.

And honestly, no frequent flyer should be pulling teeth or bending over backwards to fly his or her airline of choice. Anywhere in the world, there's a simple rule -- go with the FFP of the airline you either fly most often or that offers you the most service to/from where you fly most often. If you live in MSP, take advantage of the large hub there and be a DL frequent-flyer -- sure, other airlines, like Continental and United, would love to have your business, but as a general rule, their schedules and service offerings won't be catering primarily to your needs but rather to those of the pax in the hub markets.
Aug 17, 2009 | 3:26 pm
  #29  
Quote: The Pilots contract limits Regional Jets to 50 pax
Wasn't a comment made about this on the LAX/MCO base thread recently? Pilots want bases at LAX/MCO and CO wants EMB190...or something like that.
Aug 17, 2009 | 3:29 pm
  #30  
Quote: The MSP metro area has about 700,000 more people than the Denver metro area (Link) yet Denver is served by CO to the tune of about 11 mainline flights a day (including 752s and 753s). Denver has UA and F9 hubs, and a growing WN infestation. Interesting. May be due to the long history CO has in Denver.
Tampa is just above Denver, and Orlando is beneath all of them.. but neither Florida city is hurting for mainline service from any airline. The travel industry is about where people are going, not necessarily where they are.