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craz Jan 23, 2009 1:18 pm

not enough info is known IMO

all too often a Passenger will go way over board, yet at the same time a member of the Flight Crew will do exactly the same and throw the Flag down with the "interference BS" when its not called for.

Unfortunately both sides get carried away way more then they should

Chicken or Beef Jan 23, 2009 1:40 pm


Originally Posted by craz (Post 11130113)
not enough info is known IMO

all too often a Passenger will go way over board, yet at the same time a member of the Flight Crew will do exactly the same and throw the Flag down with the "interference BS" when its not called for.

Unfortunately both sides get carried away way more then they should

I do some what agree that in some cases this happens.
However it is the authorities who make the final decision, and not always goes in favor of the airline.
That is why I think (IMO) He did and said a little more than the paper says.

flymeaway Jan 23, 2009 1:41 pm


Originally Posted by craz (Post 11130113)
not enough info is known IMO

all too often a Passenger will go way over board, yet at the same time a member of the Flight Crew will do exactly the same and throw the Flag down with the "interference BS" when its not called for.

Unfortunately both sides get carried away way more then they should


True...but even when both parties have gotten carried away, it's extremely rare for a flight to divert for this reason - and even rarer still that the offending passenger is arrested (much less prosecuted, convicted, and sentanced to jail!) for his behavior. Not enough information was given in the article, but I will assume that whatever he did had to be pretty darn bad for all of that to happen. It seems pretty unlikely that the FAs, pilots, arresting officers, and judge/jury ALL overreacted to an unruly passenger.

Steve GadFly Jan 23, 2009 2:00 pm


Originally Posted by flymeaway (Post 11130249)
True...but even when both parties have gotten carried away, it's extremely rare for a flight to divert for this reason - and even rarer still that the offending passenger is arrested (much less prosecuted, convicted, and sentanced to jail!) for his behavior. Not enough information was given in the article, but I will assume that whatever he did had to be pretty darn bad for all of that to happen. It seems pretty unlikely that the FAs, pilots, arresting officers, and judge/jury ALL overreacted to an unruly passenger.

I'm thinking for a diversion/arrest/conviction/sentencing to happen, the things the passenger was been yelling must have been considered something close to "terroristic threats". A conviction couldn't have happened just from FA testimony....I'm sure several other PAX were asked or made to testify.

PTravel Jan 23, 2009 2:05 pm


Originally Posted by Chicken or Beef (Post 11130076)
Nor I would take a lawyer's. I guess we are even.

Not exactly. My posts didn't contain TOS violations. Yours does and has been reported.

PTravel Jan 23, 2009 2:07 pm


Originally Posted by craz (Post 11130113)
not enough info is known IMO

all too often a Passenger will go way over board, yet at the same time a member of the Flight Crew will do exactly the same and throw the Flag down with the "interference BS" when its not called for.

Unfortunately both sides get carried away way more then they should

Exactly. For what it's worth, I've encountered over-the-top FA behavior far more than over-the-top PAX behavior. However, as you note, there is nowhere near enough information provided in the article to determine what happened.

Chicken or Beef Jan 23, 2009 2:14 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 11130377)
Exactly. For what it's worth, I've encountered over-the-top FA behavior far more than over-the-top PAX behavior. However, as you note, there is nowhere near enough information provided in the article to determine what happened.

How often do you travel? That is funny, for me is the opposite;)

meFIRST Jan 23, 2009 2:17 pm

This is kind of overboard. I've had drinks spilled on me before, and received a check back from Continental for the dry cleaning costs.

PTravel Jan 23, 2009 2:19 pm

From a press release from the DOJ:

"United States Attorney Johnny Sutton and FBI Special Agent in Charge David Cuthbertson announced the filing of a federal criminal complaint in Midland, Texas, this afternoon charging 44-year-old Arthur David Proskin with interfering with a flight crew by assault or intimidation.
According to the complaint, Proskin was a passenger last night on Continental Airlines flight 2116 traveling from Houston, Texas, to Palm Springs, CA. During the flight, Proskin allegedly became irate and yelled obscenities at a flight attendant, and subsequently at other passengers, after he was struck in the knee by the attendants beverage service cart. Because of Proskin’s actions, response from other passengers, fear of an escalating situation that could turn physically violent and for the safety of all passengers on board the flight, the pilots diverted to Midland International Airport and made an unscheduled stop at approximately 8:00pm. Proskin was removed from the plane and eventually placed in federal custody. No one was physically injured during the incident."

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txw/press_...08/Proskin.pdf

Interestingly, he appears to have had an outstanding 3-year-old arrest warrant for a drug offense (intent to distribute a look-alike substantce) pending:

http://www.peoriacounty.org/sheriff....eNoI=06CF00652

PTravel Jan 23, 2009 2:26 pm


Originally Posted by Chicken or Beef (Post 11130429)
How often do you travel? That is funny, for me is the opposite;)

I've been a frequent flier since the mid-80s. I've only once seen a passenger so belligerent that he was removed from the plane. On the other hand, I've been on the receiving end of threats from FAs several times, each time completely unwarranted. This isn't a slam against FAs -- the overwhelming majority of them that I encounter are, at minimum, professional and most are helpful and friendly. I have, however, had the misfortune of running into a couple who, evidently, went to FA school at the Napoleon Bonaparte Academy for Martinets. Fortunately for me, and unlike this would-be voucher scammer, I had no difficulty recognizing where the confrontation would end, and simply shut my mouth and took my seat. In each instance, other FAs came over to me afterwards to apologize and suggest I pursue the incident with customer service, which I did. In each instance I received what I felt was appropriate compensation.

Accordingly, and particularly after reading the DOJ summary of the complaint, I'm unwilling to credit either side without substantially more information.

Chicken or Beef Jan 23, 2009 2:27 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 11130368)
Not exactly. My posts didn't contain TOS violations. Yours does and has been reported.

Which of my post contain TOS violations?

PTravel Jan 23, 2009 2:31 pm


Originally Posted by Chicken or Beef (Post 11130522)
Which of my post contain TOS violations?

Smarmy digs at my profession are irrelevant to this discussion and constitute personal attacks. I'm sure the mods will be happy to explain it to you.

Chicken or Beef Jan 23, 2009 2:43 pm


Originally Posted by PTravel (Post 11130545)
Smarmy digs at my profession are irrelevant to this discussion and constitute personal attacks. I'm sure the mods will be happy to explain it to you.

Well I'm sure the Mods will want to talk to you first, since it was you who wrote First "I will not accept an FA's judgment in this regard,"

Well I'm a fa so you took the first shot.

PTravel Jan 23, 2009 2:56 pm


Originally Posted by Chicken or Beef (Post 11130617)
Well I'm sure the Mods will want to talk to you first, since it was you who wrote First "I will not accept an FA's judgment in this regard,"

Well I'm a fa so you took the first shot.

That wasn't directed at you, but at the FAs on Proskin's flight. I didn't even realize you were an FA until just now. Or was I supposed to infer that you were from your screen name?

choster Jan 23, 2009 3:02 pm

Will you two take it the .... outside?


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