Thanks I looked at todays page 1 and didnt see anything about it so I ASSUMED Incorrectly that it wasnt spoken about previously and that in fact today was the 1st time it was mentioned and in the WSJ.

I apologize as I should have known that if its the WSJ or any paper or website then it most likely was NOT New News but Old News that I just didnt know about.

Ok just finished reading all 11 pages. Wont comment on anyones particuliar post since Im very late to the Party.

In General, 1- thanks Scott for the Advance notice even thou I didnt know about this threads existence

2- To those who dont cash out for Easypass and feel these changes wont have any affect on them, I wish you were Right. But it Will as I can only see CO offering less and less so called Saver Awards pretty much as DL has already done, its almost impossible to find a 25k award on DL however for 50k you have your choice of flights galore. Co wont be far behind. its only time till CO elimates Saver and all that will be left is Standard a/k/a EasyPass.

3- As for E+ all I can say is I just did 2 round-trips the past month EWR-TLV and sat in Row 32 (Exit) it was great being 6'2" for the leg room, but I killed my back as the seats are not only narrower but have less support and comfort then the reg seats do. Im not a fan of COs BF seats.

So I now find myself checking out BAs WT+ fares. Ive flown it before and had the needed leg-room and the seats didnt cause me any back problems as COs does. The fact I have to stop at LHR is not a problem to me , I prefer actually being able to split a Long Flight by actually getting off the plane and being able to walk around and take a hot shower. Or better yet arrive in LHR at 7am skip the 8:30am connection and take the 10:30pm flight onto TLV giving me a day down in London to visit with friends, or take in the sites.

I highly doubt that CO will put a PE onto its aircraft

wish I had known about the changes before I flew back to TLV on 10/18, I would have cancelled the MR to HNL I booked that day to requalify for Plat for '08.

Seems that CO and I have reached the end of the road

I wouldn't be so hasty to assume that. They're just changing the name. That's a marketing thing. Regarding the awards themselves, I've gotten plenty of standard awards. You just have to be a little flexible. Then again, I've not looked for them EWR-TLV.IMHO They're fine for sitting, but not for sleeping. I wish they'd do something before the 787 comes. It'll take years to migrate the new seat choice to the older aircraft. <sigh>I think they'll get there eventually but that it will take a while. There have been plenty of other things they said they would never do that they are now doing. When they first said they wouldn't do a PE product AA had just abandoned it and UA was skirting bankruptcy. Now we're seeing that (as a separate) product only on UA within the US, but on an increasing number of international carriers. I'd guess the market forces will eventually force them to do this for longhaul flights.Hopefully you won't say the same about the CO forum :p

Have you ever tried checking DL for their Saver Award, a couple of yrs ago almost any City Pairs you entered had them being offered. Along came Chap11 and now youd be Lucky to find it even on a 5am flight, its usually 50K for any type of free coach on DL anywhere anytime anydate. I can see CO copying that process, after all the EasyPass will be called Standard and CO will beable to simply say, Oh we HAVE Standard seats Available Mr Craz, but its 50k, its only the Saver Seats that are NOT available. But Standard is. SPIN if I ever heard it!

I just checked both CO and BA for a 1/1-1/10 trip to TLV, CO Q & M fare = $1234 ai, H = $1611 ai, BA in WT+ $1975 ai. SO BA is only $364 over the H and I get the needed Leg Room and back support, not to mention a much better Entertainment System then CO has.

I will admitt I Dread having to fly AA again Stateside even thou I have LifeTime Plat status with them being a 2MM and HATE the MD-80s Ok they are better then the RJs, and with ORD or DFW as the connecting Hubs that spells TROUBLE. Maybe BA Intl and JetBlue for Domestic flights

Actually CO has improved their EWR-TLV availability a lot. The only problem is that they are offering the tickets on AF and they cost 90K instead of 70K (but you said you don't mind the stopover?) It is funny that they do so even when they have TONS of free seats on their own flights those days. Other than peak travel months you could get NYC-TLV on either CO, AF, Alitalia or KLM. (I wonder if Virgin/Elal could work too?)

The problem with AF and AZ is they use A-320s between Europe and TLV which are too small and no place to stand so for the 5 hr flight its basically sit in your seat and dont dare to get up.

Biz is a JOKE as its Euro-Biz basically a Coach seat with no more leg-room.

Theres also OK Czech Air, as for KLM lousy connecting times into TLV and a 737.

BA uses Wide bodies into TLV with Lie-Flat Biz seats its a 767 or 777 between LHR and TLV, 2 flights daily.

As for having better availablity its always been the same only it didnt show AF on Co.com, maybe somethings up with CO wanting to get into LHR that has them changing how they work with AF. After all AZ,OK,KL, and even DL flights arent showing on .com

Have you flown an AA Mad Dog recently? They have extensively redone the interiors. They're actually very pleasant now, much, much nicer than the DL MD's and light years ahead of the RJ's...

Back in June LGA-ORD, also AA is lousy out of EWR as are most Carriers except CO. But AA is only decent out of JFK which I hate to fly out of or into.

But theres still no movies etc, Im happy that Im flying CO to HNL in Dec and not AA, as AA doesnt serve any food while CO will be giving me my Special meal. Dont know how much longer till they get rid of meals also. Also AA does their 1st beverage run charging for things, I dont mind flying them Intl but wont any longer for my Domestic flights.

Understood. All makes a lot of sense.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of AA, but I have been flying them more since the value of my OP elite was Kellnerized...:eek:

AA charges for beverages in domestic coach?

Heh, standing in a flight is definitely an Israeli thing. In those 4-5 hour flights I don't get the urge to stand up. I agree with your comment on the biz classes though. I'm not sure about availability - I could never get the full picture before because it was not available online, but if you look now - CO has NOTHING for the summer but AF has a lot of open dates. I really help that Delta would change the market. More capacity into TLV might mean more availability of seats on the line (plus you get DL as an additional option to use with OP.)

I asked for water and was told how much a bottle of water was or I could wait till they came thru on their 2nd run and drinks were free

Boy that's pretty CHEAAP

It has nothing to do with being an Israeli thing, Im not an Israeli, and my flight last Thurs had over 1/2 the Coach filled with returning Christian Pilgrims who were standing any where they were able to find a place to.

I dont think you will find many Israelis flying CO from the Us to ZRH,MXP,FCO,FRA,CDG,PEK,NRT,HKG etc etc all served with 777 or 767 and yet you will find people almost always standing around or at least trying to find a place to.

As for what if anything DL will do to the availability all you have to do is go to DL and see what is available now for a flight out of ATL.

also CO last month had ZERO availability for Nov, Dec,Jan & Feb for Coach or BF awards that wasnt SleezyPass soon to be Standard Class excuse Me. And thats for the Low season why would you expect something to be available for the Summer time which is the Highest Season?

FWIW when I flew in Biz or 1st depending on the Carrier I also stood up and walked around and that was even on a NY-LA flight.

Im praying with the FAA coming down on JFK that JetBlue will expand either at LGA or EWR where now its only Florida flights, to other destinations

Just a suggestion...

Can someone please make post #1 of this thread about the actual changes to OnePass 2008 when they are available?

Honestly, I think it's a bit ridiculous there are 12 pages of banter back & forth or speculation about *possible* changes to the '08 program but no one knows the truth yet.

It will certainly make it MUCH easier to track the changes for the '08 program if they are consolidated into the master post of this thread. Then everyone can debate whether they are good or bad changes in the pages that follow.

Just my .02.

Thanks,
-RM

OK maybe you arent aware of who CoInsider is, so just look at his signature below Post #1. whatever you read in that post is the Gospel according to CO if its there it will be in place as Scott posted.

So whatever is in Post #1 right now is not Open for discussion if it will be happenin or not, it WILL

Unbelievable.

That information already is contained in Post 1 of this thread, which was made by CO Insider.

I hope the good news include One Way Rewards :cool:

Somehow I doubt it, but it would be nice.

If that is really true , they should be exposed and dealt with.

Exposed to what?

The change in nomenclature is a very small step toward truth-in-advertising on mileage awards. And it is clearly a way to change perceptions toward using more miles for travel.

The fact is that Standard awards have become very difficult. Yes, with a "little" flexibility standard awards can sometimes be secured, usually pretty close to travel date. This, of course, is opposite of what lots of fliers want--many look for advance reservations using their miles. CO's attitude seems to be that standard award inventory will come from seats that the airline is almost certain not to sell, and the decisions about this are made fairly late, This makes using miles for planned-in-advance trips exceedingly difficult.

The bottom line: recent semantic changes have done nothing to increase award availability; they are only an attempt to "spin."

That's how most airlines treat such seats. You correctly point out that they tend to delay availability. I don't know how far in advance you plan things, but I've found that a month or two out I can usually find what I want.Yep -- it's certainly spin. Who are the ad wizards who came up with that one?!

I think this view gives CO waaay to much unearned credit. If they are holding out, I think it is only until theya re able to guage how far they can push loyal customers before there is a backlash that affects their bottom line. Then they will roll out some "improvement", designed to placate.

Easypass v Standard
 

Many of you say that it is hard to redeem standard rewards. It is on CO. I have had very little trouble on AA. It may be my market (AUS), but I have not had ONE instance where there are more options on CO than AA on any given award itinerary I have attempted to book.

CO miles are worth a lot less than AA or UA miles, as they are among the most difficult to redeem. As the CO execs made it clear at the do that they profit takes a front seat to everything else, I do not think this will change anytime soon.

I used to LOVE CO's program in the mid to late nineties. Their products and program have not improved at all since then, while other carriers have. Keep up with the times, stop devaluing the program. Otherwise, I will have to take all of my business elsewhere.

I don't think your experience has anything to do with your market. When I was Boston-based, the availability difference between CO and AA was startling - AA always seemed to have what I needed; CO never seemed to have much of anything. One would have to be a pretty delusional CO fan to claim that award availability is a strong point of the program. This isn't to say that other aspects aren't attractive, such as unlimited upgrades for elites, just that award availability is bad.

You mean the limited unlimited upgrades for elites? ;)

channa's quote deals with redesigning BF. CO is not going to announce anything until it is ready to go with it. To do otherwise will result in disappointing a great many customers. Look at UA. They announced new seats and none were available on *any* flight. How many people looked at the ads and bought tickets expecting the new seat? I bet there were quite a few... I'd expect a newly updated BF offering at the time the 787 is introduced.

Agreed.

Then again, I shudder to think what Larry Kellner will deem as "improvements" in the next generation BF?

1. 2 more degrees of recline for 172 degrees!
2. No reruns of Joey or Reba older than 5 years
3. Less legroom. Less is More!!
4. No more free eye shades, but the new one will be better!
5. All alcohol served with an eye dropper (For an improved, sobering flight experience!)

At least with UA it was only going to be a few months before the new UA Business and First seats were available on some flights. When DL announced the new BusinessElite seats, at the time it was going to be over a year before the seats started to appear in any aircraft.

I must admit that it was fun watching that 33 page thread in the UA forum concerning the flights last weekend on which UA was supposed to introduce the new Business and First Class seats. Everyone engaged in wild speculation about the product launch, then bought tickets and burned upgrade instruments to be on what they thought would be the flights on which the new premium products debuted. Then, UA pulled the rug out from everyone at the last minute, postponing the launch of the new product and failing to announce a new launch date.

Just covering my bases.;) To me the biggest plus that OnePass has over the OW and *A programs is that most of the foreign partner flights still earn full value RDMs, as well as generous elite bonuses. Whether the increased earnings outweigh the lesser availability, is something I am wrestling with, however.

Hmmm...ususally an annual marketing plan isn't developed in two phases - the "bad" itmes and then the "good". It's interesting that it's being parsed out this way.

And, in light of yesterday's Wall Street Journal article specifically citing Continental as one of the airlines getting "stingier" with it's FF program, I would hope someone in CO marketing wakes up and counters the negative press with something positive...assuming there really are any positive changes coming...

[QUOTE=craz;8647394]

also CO last month had ZERO availability for Nov, Dec,Jan & Feb for Coach or BF awards that wasnt SleezyPass soon to be Standard Class excuse Me. And thats for the Low season why would you expect something to be available for the Summer time which is the Highest Season?
QUOTE]

That is strange because i'm flying on 11/14 to TLV and booked it last month. There were lots of open dates on Nov, Dec and Jan.

Except that I am not sure this necessarily contradicts dme. Everyone keeps saying that "CO will roll it out with the 787", but this doesn't really change the extent of the delay. I mean, if they are going to roll it out across the rest of the fleet, then why not start refitting the other long-haul planes now? There is nothing magical about the 787 requiring them to wait. They know the width of the plane. They have the promised loads. They have all the information that they need to design a seat and start putting it on the other planes. Even if adjustments need to be made, this isn't that different from the fact that they have differing seats between the 777, 767, and 757. And I struggle to believe that they are going to be going out of their way to design a seat whose weight pushes the theoretical limits anyway, so I would think they will be pretty darn safe.

Without some explanation of why it is critical to wait for the 787, then I'm inclined to side with dme and think that CO is waiting for the dust to settle before determining what sort of seat to offer. Nothing really wrong with that, I guess, but let's not dress up CO's financial and strategic prudence as some sort of customer-friendly initiative.

Nope, I am well aware of who COInsider is. I mistakenly didn't look at page 1 (but a different page) before making my post in error.

Thanks.

-RM

My understanding is that they have chosen the seat they intend to offer. Remember, these seats are not inexpensive. They can go for $50k each or more (often a lot more).

I know they aren't cheap, but a cost-based argument does nothing to diminish dme's contention that CO is trying to string along their customers for as long as they can. I didn't say it wasn't sound, but waiting 3 years before seeing a new seat on CO isn't exactly a benefit for CO fliers, an idea some of the comments here were inching towards advancing.