An upgrade is a privilege? I think CO is privileged to have me fly with them. That is not to say I expect an ungrade when I pay a coach fare. I would call the elite upgrade a perk. When there's an empty seat in F, CO thanks me for flying them regularly by moving me into FC if there is not another coach passenger on the plane who flys or pays more than I. For me and my flying patterns, the best thing about flying CO is having a PC in my home airport where I am treated like family by the staff.

CO is the only airline that uses the 737-800 without the midcabin lavatory as its primary transcon aircraft.

There is, as you accurately write, absolutely nothing wrong with 3 lavatories for 155 passengers, except that CO reserves the use of the forward lavatory to the 14 lucky souls sitting in the premium cabin.

This leaves the remaining 141 poor schlubs in coach with the two remaining aft lavatories, and the ratio shoots up to 70.5 passengers/lavatory.

Even this high ratio would be semi-acceptable except on long flights where, statistically, a larger percentage of the cabin will need to use the facilities. That's why the longer haul the a/c, the lower the ratio of passengers to lavtories (CO's 777 has 29.375 passengers/lavatory in coach).

CO uses this 737-800 for most of its transcon out of EWR. CO operates 18 daily transcons out of EWR on 737-800's w/out mid-cabin lavatories (to LAX, SFO, SEA, PDX, and SAN) These flights are all about 6 hours long; they are not short at all, and certainly not the length of flight this arrangement of cabin & lavatories was intended for.

DL operates one 737-800 JFK to SFO but the bulk of its JFK transcon operates on 757's (11 of 12 flights to LAX, SFO & SEA). BTW, as an indication of how tightly CO packs 'em in on these 737-800's, DL's variant only has 16 in FC and 128 in coach (vs. 14 FC and 141 Y on CO) so that the coach lavatory ratio is lower on DL.

No other airlines which operate 737-800 use it on any routes approaching this length. You mention Southwest's 737-300's. First, this is a much smaller a/c than the 737-800 since it holds a total of 138 passengers (it has 3 lavatories in single-class layout or 46 pax/wc) And WN does not operate any 737 transcon service.

You mention the Airbus operators. B6 operates the A-320 but in single-class so that the three lavatories are available to all 156 pax. US operates the A-321 on longer routes, but all its A-321's, which have 140 seats in coach, have 3 lavatories for the coach cabin (incl. a mid-cabin lavatory).

The fact that there are only two lavtories for as many as 141 passengers (+ the crew members) is not a huge deal in of itself. But it contributes to the unpleasant coast-to-coast experience that is certainly counter to the image CO attempts to sell of itself as the last line of defense of the old-school quality airline experience.

I do what's best for me. I like Continental and feel very strong loyalty towards the carrier, but I won't take them to London, since I can get a business/close to FC trip for close to what I'd pay CO in coach. I don't use CO for long haul, last minute trips; jetBlue is better for those trips. I'll never walk away from CO in some dramatic incident. If anything, loyalty is chipped away slowly. I think that the airline will step up service when sustained profits return; if CO doesn't someone else will.

I don't enjoy being a customer for WN; I do like the company as an investment. I am sometimes forced to fly Southwest, but it's generally a last resort.

I am with you; when competitors provide better value, they get the business.

Absolutely, positively untrue. Twice daily PHL-LAX. I don't understand why we're now so upset about lavs. Freaking lavs?? Aren't you just upset about upgrades?

You're right about WN. Then again, WN operates two cross country 737 flights, while CO operates about 30 (18 on the 737-800 w/out the mid-cabin lavatory).

As I pointed out in my previous post the lavs issue is not a big deal. On the other hand, six hours is a long time for 141 people to use two wc's. The line can be brutal, especially with the f/a cart constantly working the aisle without any space to get out of the way.

I have had to wait 15 minutes to use the facilties, all the while blocking the aisle, constantly having to nudge into the seat of the passengers in the rear rows or being barked at by the f/a's to get out of the galley. This is not part of a quality airline experience.

On one EWR-LAX I had the CO lead f/a announce that it "is strictly forbidden to form a line for the lavatories." What were supposed to do, bottle our waste?

Also, these lavs become putridly filthy after six hours of this kind of usage.

It's not a huge deal but it is a little much when you're sitting on the tarmac and you hear Larry Kellner's video sell us on how how much more wonderful the service on CO is.

If I'm flying transcon, I'd much rather have the comfort and legroom of JetBlue (and, yes, the third lavatory). JetBlue also has pillows and blankets (I'll bring my own food, nothing could be worse than CO's awful plastic calzone).

Also you asked me if I'm upset about the lack of upgrades. Not really. an upgrade is a perk and if CO is selling an FC seat to someone who is paying more for it, that's life. But what CO ought to do, especially for the large group of unhappy OP Elite flyers in a market like EWR, is to provide a less sub-standard coach environment. This includes more space, better seats, and, yes, more lavatory facilities.

Virtually very other competitor operates transcon with a minimum of 32" of seat pitch (DL, AA, US), 32"-33" (WN), 32"-34" (B6), and 34" (UA p.s.). So CO actually provides its customers with the least space on transcon flights (not to mention int'l coach, where the seat pitch is also 31" except on some of its oldest widebodies).

Of course, they have already said they won't improve coach because it would "adversly affect the bottom line" (i.e. they're too cheap). Sometimes, though, the straightest line to making a profit, as in cutting costs, doesn't result in the best long-term financial results (please refer to Gordon Bethune's warning on this topic).

Or CO can just drop the pretense and just admit that CO in coach is just nothing more than basic air travel with a plastic calzone and a paper pillow thrown in.

Edited, Reason: Though of Something Else ;)

I'm surprised as well. I have flown IAH-BWI and back three times this year and have been upgraded on all flights as Gold. You must be choosing all peak flight times.

I'm three for four this year as a Gold on this route on sub-K fares, all Saturdays and Sundays. The only one I missed was an IAH-BWI 733 on a Monday, with the flight having been A0 Y0 etc. six days out, and all other IAH-BWI flights packed to the hilt three or four days out.

I remember the glory days when there were multiple 757s and a few 753s BWI-IAH, and almost everything else was a 738. Heck, the 6:45am BWI-CLE was a 757 or 753 for a long time, even on Saturdays, with an occassional 738. Now it's RJs only to CLE, with one 735 on weekdays and Sundays. All RJs to EWR as well.

I fully agree. CO needs to wake up and smell some cofee - we are "The Customer" after all. The Airline business is competitive after all. CO keeps nibbling down the perks while making sure that "Joe Vacationer" still gets a mini sandwhich. It seems to me that CO has decided that budget driven corporate frequent flyers aren't worth it.

In a couple of years the current crop of bankruptcy airlines are going to be out there with the "post bankruptcy cost glow" that CO has enjoyed as an advantage for a long time. DL and NW have learned from CO's elite program and have replicated and kept several of the very benefits that CO has let decline. As the previous posts have mentioned its much easier to get upgrades on NW even as a Silver thanks the CO's over-use of RJs, shrinking the FC sections, and the change in the FC fare structure. If the upgrade party at CO is over those who value upgrades can and will find them elsewhere.

For the poster who asked about doing a last minute FF# switch to do a NW flip - it is possible but there are some tricks involved. If you try to do it at the gate the GA will take away whatever upgrade you got from your CO number. Do a search in the NW forum for details.

Very well written. Agreed 100%.

Then again, all of this is pretty obvious stuff. But that's what you get when you promote the bean counter, Larry Kellner, to run the ship. He's a cheap one and while cheap may look good now the damage he's doing to the operation's long-term revenue potential is considerable.

Just returned on a EWR-SFO roundtrip with both flights PACKED. Obviously no upgrades because cost of a first class ticket was around $1100 with coach at just over $400. EWR-SFO was 757-300 while the return was on a 737-800 with mid-cabin lavatory. Even though I had a bulkhead seat on the return, it is so miserable on that plane for a 5-hour flight. And yes the movie outbound was Big Momma's House 2 - I mean really folks! I'm ok with the cheeseburger meal (I kinda actually like them though I know they are HORRIBLE for you).

I have had UA match my elite status and am giving them a try on my JFK-LAX trip in early June with the ps service. You know, honestly, I can deal with coach transcon but just give me a little more legroom PLEASE!!!!

Sometimes, if you can do it, flying through IAH into OAK (nocal) or ONT (socal) can work for upgrades quite well. Leaving tomorrown for ONT out of LGA at upgraded both segments (LGA-IAH-ONT).

By the way, probably 80% of my domestic trips are NYC to some point in California.

So the answer to your questions, is it worth it? Well if you're addicted to miles as I am, then I suppose yes. And by the way, I've had no problems scoring trips using miles internationally businessfirst though there is NEVER anything in first transcon using miles EVER!

I agree with you about the general state of upgrades and the use of RJs, but the fact remains that CO is not reducing the number of seats in F cabins. The only equipment that has had a reduction in F is the 735, from 10 F to 6, and now to 8, permanently. The 753 has seen its F capacity increase from 12 to 24. At some point, four seats will be added to the 738 non-mid-cabin lav configured equipment, increasing F capacity to 18.

F capacity for domestic upgrades has decreased overall, however, due to the conversion of all the 757s to 16 BF from 24 F and their corresponding removal (for all but a handful of hub-to-hub, EWR-west coast, and Florida flights) from the domestic fleet for use on the new European secondary city routes. The loss of the 757s, combined with the high load factors that often result in business customers buying Y-ups, Zs, or As for anything within a week or two of travel, are the reasons that upgrades are more scarce.

Edited to add: is it worth it? To me, CO is about more than just free upgrades from any Y fare. I don't travel as much as many people, and I'll probably make plat this year by only a few thousand miles and not until the last quarter, so if I flew more, perhaps upgrades would be more important. I value the relatively consistent product CO has provided over the years and the fact that I've been able to use my miles for international J awards on good partners just as much as the ability to upgrade. That, coupled with an overall upgrade record of about 70% as a Gold, keep me on board even when they're not the most convenient option. If I were based in EWR and buying last minute Y fares on transcons and getting stuck in middle seats, I would be upset, as many are. Accordingly, I would take my business to NW or UA ps if I were in that situation. But for me and my situation, it is still worth it.

The fact remains that flights are so crowded now that most of the time, a Y, Z, A, etc. will be the only fares available for purchase two weeks out. This is simply the result of increased demand for air travel. In this environment, the only way for CO to increase upgrade availability (short of expanding the domestic mainline fleet) would be to price Ys and As at about twice their current price ranges, forcing customers that otherwise would have purchased these fares to use lower cost carriers. Other than that, all I can say is to wait until the summer travel season ends, and perhaps upgrades will be a bit easier to come by.

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Please tell me where you can find a J/C ticket to London for nearly the same price as CO Y, other than Maxjet.

Sounds as if I had written this post.

Dude, why not just try JetBlue? Every seat in the house is good, not just the unattainable upgrades or 10 of the 12 exit row seats as is the case on CO. JetBlue's fares are affordable, crews are friendly, schedules are excellent (if you work in downtown LA or Hollywood, Burbank is incredible).

Why torture yourself? For what? Unattainable upgrades? Unusable miles?

And if you're addicted to miles JetBlue has a ff program too. I qualified for a free ticket after 3 roundtrips and my new JetBlue credit card.

And don't tell me you're worried about missing out on the "hot meal" you could get on CO. Do you really want to eat another melted cheese/plastic cheeseburger sandwich?

If you're so dissatisfied with CO, why not also consider UA ps out of JFK or YX out of LGA (if you're willing to connect in MKE or MCI) for your transcons? Both beat jetblue, unless you absolutely have to watch crappy satellite tv for 5.5 hours.