In my experience this is not the case. It's just another part of the JetBlue mystique. The times I've checked them out I found that the frequency of flights was lacking (ie one or two flights/day). Also, the arrival/departure times were rather inconvenient.

Getting back on topic, CO knows they have an F problem. I don't think that three years ago anyone would have predicted the dropping of F fares and the selling of a lot more F seats.

Regarding JetBlue's prices, flying transcon, they start as low as $199 rt, cheap but CO's cheapest trancon fares (which tend to start at about $220) are low, too.

I do a lot of SFO (or OAK) and LAX (or BUR/LGB). I think you'll find that JetBlue has the same frequency, if not more, on these routes than CO, and the flights run from early in the morning to late in the evening.

The real advantage in JetBlue if you're a business traveller is booking a ticket with very little advance purchase. The maximum fare is $499 rt to the West Coast.

When I used to fly CO I occasionally had to buy a full-Y last-minute fare, the kind that is supposed to provide you a guaranteed FC seat. The problem when you buy this kind of ticket at the last second is that FC is often full and then you end up with a middle seat in coach anyway!

The other advantage with JetBlue: Changes are cheap and easy to make. The change fee is $25 online and it's waived if the increase in fare is $100 or more.

To me it's a real relief from the $700 additional cost I've often had to pay to CO to change my return flight, and then ending up in the middle seat in the very back of coach on a completely full flight.

JetBlue is not perfect. Some of the terminals are a little "off," especially LGB, which feels like a 40s bus station.

But for me the most important issue is the 3" of extra legroom and the comfortable seat.

CO not only has the industry-minimum 31" seat pitch but also very uncomfortable rock-hard seats.

They can't really add more FC seats to the 753/762 because of the cabin configuration. With the 752 going to 16, but still working alot of domestic routes, there will be a loss of FC seats available for both sale and upgrade on many routes.

CO is already used to operating subfleets with different seating configurations within the same AC model. Since the 738 seems to be the big workhorse of the fleet, and is doing most of the hauls between EWR/IAH and the west coast, perhaps a subfleet within the non-mid-lav 738 could get configured to have additional FC seats - adding either 1 or 2 rows to bring that type to 20 or 22.

Most of the sold FC is between EWR/IAH and LAX/SFO/SEA/LAS, so this subfleet could offer more seats for sale and more seats for upgrade on those routes, thus balancing both needs. It appears the people complaining the most about missing Plat upgrades are flying between those city pairs. The loss of some coach seats would be outweighed by the gain of sold FC which produces far higher margins.

The remaining 738s would continue with the 18FC (I believe they were all suppose to be reconfigured to 18, right?) configuration to work other routes.

FWIW the mid lav 738's and the 739's are going to a 20 FC config (18 currently + 2 when the closet is reconfigured). While I do not know if CO makes a point of doing this, I have seen the "larger" FC 37's on the midcons out of IAH (i.e. IAH-SEA/PDX).The non-midlav 738s are being reconfigured to accommodate 16 F seats (14 currently + 2 when the closet is reconfigured). It's not 20 but at least the largest subfleet is having F capacity increased. I see your point and do agree with you in part. Changing the rules regarding EQM accrual may be of large importance for us but little for the majority.

But, you asked what would cause a mass migration of the elite base to which I'll suggest: concerns about the safety of the product, concerns about liquidations and concerns about work stoppages. I'd guess a major event like these carry the potential to affect consumer behavior en mass.

On a subtle note, customer migration will occur when people begin to realize they'll need to use "rule-bustin" awards to get their free seats. When the average Joe comes to believe paying a fee for a mileage bearing bankcard, account, loan, etc. is no longer worth it the demand for partner mileage sales will fall. In essence, your migration will occur but it will not be among the FF elite/FlyerTalkers. It will be with the mileage partners as they choose to spend their customer rebate dollars on another kickback rather than mileage when more and more of their customers refuse to pay annual fees for what they percive as a worthless perk.

This sounds very much like the Leo Mullin approach to business during his tenure at Delta. Quite a few of their frquent flyers did indeed decide it was "not for [them]." Look where it got Delta.

I know where Delta is, everyone does - I don't think we are heading down the same route though - hopefully Continental can learn from others mistakes.

-Vincent

One would hope. CO is my airline of choice right now. However, I have seven or eight additional choices flying from my home airport, and I usually pay a higher price to stay with CO. Elitist attitudes will not help the cause of CO.

You say "everyone knows where DL is." Are you sure? Do you?

I scored first class award seats on DL for travel this week (spring break) on the exact flights I wanted. Even though they are flying full planes during a peak travel week, they are still making awards available to elite travelers. I tried CO first--not a chance. Last summer, I was able to get a J award to Europe when I called DL in the middle of May. CO, no way.

I do hope CO learns from the mistakes of others and even from those of their own airline. Haven't they been in bankruptcy twice? And correct me if I am wrong, aren't they are still closing thier books each quarter in red ink?

Vincent, I don't mean the following to sound like a personal attack, just constructive criticism: Your posts are often very helpful, but they would be much stronger without the sweeping generalizations and condescending tone. At times, they often just seem defensive.

WE???

Your experiences booking award travel on DL and CO seem to be markedly different than mine. I've tried a half-dozen times in recent months to book awards on both airlines (using OnePass and SkyMiles respectively - I have tons of both). In every instance only SkyChoice awards were available on DL (and I'm sorry, but I'm not using 250,000 miles for the privilege of flying BusinessElite to Europe - in the off-season, no less). EasyPass seats in BF were available on about 50% of the CO flights I checked. Then there's the matter of DL outsourcing its call center to India, and the fact that some of the CSRs are ill-trained to the point of not realizing, for instance, that EWR is an airport in the New York City area...

I'm not blind to CO's faults, 50% EQMs being at the top of the list, but it is nonetheless the healthiest domestic legacy airline by a considerable margin, and for very good reasons, in my opinion.

I probably should qualify my award success. Both awards mentioned were international awards and I'm pretty sure no outsourcing is done (yet) for them. These agents are always helpful. The other night I worked with one who was determined she was not quitting until she found me space on a flight. It was a convoluted routing, but she waitlisted me on one that was more direct. It cleared yesterday.

I've also had good luck with domestic awards too. I use the SMS number and have not (yet) had to deal with one of the resevervation agents in India. Trying to book on the DL web is hit or miss. CO's website is much better. I check the web for awards to get an idea of what might be available and then call. Sometimes the phone agent is able to find skysaver seats that do not show up on the web.

I have not had all bad luck at CO by any means. It just seems that it is getting progressively harder to get standard awards, even when not a single seat has been sold in FC, and I haven't found this to be the case on DL.

:eek:

-Vincent

Of course there is a pattern... (method). Upgrades require that "R" inventory be available.

If at 5 days out, there are 5 plats on the flight and 3 R class seats (there may be 9 A/D/Z...it is irrelevant) than the 3 plats with the highest ranking of 1. plat status, 2: fare bucket and 3: ticket purchase date will find an EUA notice in the morning. The rest will roll till the next batch of seats are converted to R (could be day 4 or could be battlefield).

The pattern of conversion is whether the computer god deceides that the seat will ultimately go unsold and therefore become an elite perk..





[QUOTE=rkkwan]CO's complimentary upgrades for elites starts running 5 days out, but it doesn't mean it will upgrade all Plats at that time. There's no apparent pattern, and they may hold seats till the end.

Of course there's a method. We all know that. What I and others meant is that for a regular customer who's not into how inventories run, there's no discernable pattern whether EUA will run at a particular time point. At least no specific pattern I've read on FT.

That's why we'll have some longtime FTers post like "EUA cleared 5 days out!" as a huge surprise to them. Or others seeing lots of FC inventories but no EUA until battlefield.

I think the only pattern is that some routes are tougher than others. I'll give you that.

Well, well, well! Didn't my upgrade for the last part of my return leg come through at the 5-day mark...!

Thank you CO for making me believe in your (very rare) complimentary upgrades again!

However, on the 2 1/2 hour flight from FLL (CO1700), departing at 7.40pm I was surprised to find that CO offer no meals at all. I was very happy to see the McDonald's in EWR still open when we arrived...

But headsets are now complimentary in both cabins (Florida flights only I was told).

Thank you CO for making me believe in your (very rare) complimentary upgrades again!
****

So rare that I am (after double checking) at 100% for the year. The only flights that I have not been in F were expressjet flights. All but three of them came at the 5 day window, with one of them if I am not mistaken coming at a 6 day window.