Operational Upgrade Priority
 

I plan on writing a letter to Continental about this, but I thought I'd post here first and get some feedback.

I just got off a very full EWR->TLV flight (they're always full). When I booked the flight, I had them waitlist me for a mileage upgrade to BusinessFirst. The agent on the phone assured me it would be like winning the lottery if I actually cleared the waitlist, and I agreed, but I asked her to put on my it anyway and she politely obliged. Sure enough, 2 days before my flight I checked and I had not cleared the waitlist and everything was set up for coach. No problem. (My dislike of THAT whole process is a different matter :))

When I arrived for the flight, I learned that coach was over-sold by 3 seats, and there were 4 seats available up front. I assumed they would be moving people forward to cover the difference (it's very rare for people to not make this flight). I found the concierge as soon as he showed up at the desk, and found that someone else was already talking to him. In listening in, it was an older guy and his grandson who were asking for the same thing I was about to ask (to be moved up front if they did need to do some operational upgrades). When it was my turn, I asked for the same thing. I politely explained that I was a Platinum OnePass member who had previously been waitlisted, and I would greatly appreciate priority on an operational upgrade should one become necessary. He nodded, took my boarding pass, and said he'd let me know.

As the flight started boarding (I was hanging around the desk) the concierge called a person to the front, exchanged his boarding pass, and I could see the look of surprise on his face when he handed him the new one and he said "You're moving me to business class?? why???" the concierge just told him they needed his seat and to enjoy the flight. The concierge then immediately paged the older guy and his grandson, and exchanged their boarding passes for new ones as well. They looked equally pleased. I followed them both away from the desk and asked both the older gentleman and the first guy if they were OnePass members. The first guy was just a general member, and the older gentleman was silver (his grandson had no status).

A few minutes later he then called me up and said they wouldn't be needing me and he gave me back my original boarding pass.

I was furious... but I politely asked why he had upgraded others ahead of a platinum member who was previously waitlisted for the upgrade. He said his upgrade priority was none of my business. I then politely asked for his name (I remained very calm) and the guy went ballistic -- saying I had no business telling him how to do his job, and that I had no idea what his critera was for upgrades. When I asked him to explain it to me, he again said it was none of my business (nice!).

I quietly took my assigned seat in coach because I've played this game long enough to know there's no point in arguing with the concierge.

My question is:

1) What IS their upgrade critera for operational upgrades and
2) What would you guys have done in this situation?

It sounds like they volunteered first, and got the upgrade. It's unfortunate CO didn't grab 3 plats at random and upgrade them instead.

Maybe some FTers know about the criteria, but it's not supposed to be public knowledge. So, the agent doesn't need to tell you, and you did the right thing in just sitting down.

I think the issue at this point is no longer the upgrade itself...it's how the Concierge interacted with a Platinum customer.

The Concierge is under no obligation to explain why he upgraded one person and not the other, but he does have an obligation to treat all customers, especially a Platinum, with a certain degree of respect and professionalism.

I guess we can chalk this one up to another Newark "special person". Seen enough of them this year already :rolleyes:

One thing I found works well when asking for something special...don't hang around the desk until absolutely the last minute. The risk of being forgotten is far less than the risk of appearing pushy or annoying to the agent who might go out of their way to deny a request to someone who keeps bugging them or stands closeby (this does not refer to the OP, but a helpful hint for all readers)

About 6 months ago, there was "Grey Coat" that participated on FT. HIS criteria (and it was never clear that it was CO's) was:
Highest Revenue Ticket not upgraded
Continental *
Continental Platinum

The therory mentioned was:
What have you done for Continental today
What have ypu done for Continental recently
What have you done for Continental over the long haul

I can't say that I agree with them, but I can understand them. Like I said, it was not clear if this ws CO policy or the poster's own.

My personal guess after watching a couple of op ups in progress is that is the discretion of the red coat and based on their percieved method of handling the situation as quickly as they deem possible. If there is a standardized criteria for doing op ups, I don't get the impression it's neccessarily followed, but all just speculation on my part.

By the way, this is one reason why I need to stop paying attention to this kind of thing. Whether or not one deserves to be upgraded doesn't matter, it's still awful to watch others get bumped up front while you stay in the back, esp on international flights.

It seems obvious that the upgrade policy that was used was first come, first served.

Do these people not get performance reviews? Are their people skills (or lack thereof) not monitored by SOMEBODY? What are their bosses doing? Are people who are in direct contact with the public not monitored in some way like those in call centers??? :confused:

My mom was op-uped for EWR-HKG earlier this year. She, a Gold Elite, never asked for it. They just called her name and exchanged her BP. So, she didn't even "come" to the desk and ask for anything, so I wonder about "first come, first serve".

Same thing for my wife and I last year when we flew to CDG for New Year's Eve. We walked up to the gate after gulping some fast food at EWR and my name was called shortly before boarding. The Grey Coat Op-Uped me immediately and my wife a couple minutes later after others did not answer their page. And yes, I would have given her the seat if there was only one available! Whether she would have taken it or not is another story.

This obviously was not first-come first-serve, did anyone read what happened?

One of the op-upped people said "You're moving me to business class?? why???"

If he didn't know why, he didn't ask and it wasn't FCFS.

continental does NOT care about upgrade priority and often too lazy regarding upgrading correctly.

Very true. I find it odd that he would not provide his name. OTOH, props to you neatbrian for staying calm and collected. I'd be interested to hear what the response is from CO. Please keep us informed! :)

deleted

I'm guessing you were travelling on a full-fare Y ticket and your boss was not? You're talking about a domestic "battlefield upgrade," but we're talking about international operational upgrades, when Y is oversold and J is undersold. The two are very different.
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That was a response to the now-deleted post #14

If there is any policy, I believe priority is given to the highest fare paid. Then within the same fare, Plat would have priority over Gold etc.

This is what happened to me the last couple of times I was opuped out of EWR on transatlantic flights. On both occasions I was on H fare ticket.

I also remember on one of these opups another guy trying to sweet talk to the GA, showing him his Plat card and trying to get on the opup list but it did not work for him that night...

In other occasions, when I was on a dirt cheap fare, my Plat status did not help and I could see other passengers being paged to the podium and get new BPs.

I have only been op up'd to HNL. They were looking for volunteers for oversold and I volunteered--as a Plat--and then go the OP UP had tried for a month to use milies to UG on a H fare. Lucky me got the UG for nothing still baffled by CO's failure to sell UG's with miles ( yes this is a form of payment) on these flights and they give away the product instead because of bad load management. Bad managment all around!

Why aren't the UG people within the 72 hours when they ahev an oversold?? Some mysteries may never be solved.

Airlines don't publish their international "unofficial" upgrade policies because they usually don't have any written policy. There are obvious reasons for that - the more predictable the process is, the more likely frequent flyers are to "play" the system.

Regarding the others theories:
OutOfOffice - it's true that when OpUps occur, time is limited, which explains why gate agents and concierges are empowered to make such big decisions when airport staff usually are not allowed to have anything to do with revenue management. So while there may be a generally accepted pecking order, gate agents can always avoid criticism using the argument that getting the flight out on time was more important than sticking to unwritten rules.
otralot - revenue management often will not open upgrade seats if coach is oversold because leaving Y at 0 forces people to buy into J / F. why they don't do it when J is >9 is Y is -23, I have no idea. Also, revenue management and all those related systems are complicated enough - riddled with "exceptions" and the like. Asking for more exceptions for various reasons isn't worth the trouble - more confused agents and more confused, angry passengers...

I know for a fact that at least one transatlantic carrier specifically does NOT op-up elites because they have so many problems with elites who begin to expect it when coach is oversold and make a scene.

I've been op-up'ed 3 times EWR-LGW...on dirt-cheap fares.

I simply ask if they need volunteers since coach looks over-booked, and usually end up getting an op-up. Once I got a bump instead.

Making life easier for the gate agents seems to help.

Do you mind sharing
 

The information about your booking class?

Quite idiotic, isn't it, to offer free op-ups instead of getting folks to pay mileage for the upgrade? You would think they would upgrade everyone that wanted to spend miles, say 4 hours before departure, rather than giving the seats away for free.

Shocked
 

I've only had 1 Op up transatlantic, EWR-LGW in 2003. I did not volunteer --didn't know they needed help or I would have jumped at the chance for op up or bump. Stayed late in the PC, was walking to gate C123 19 minutes prior to departure, when I heard my SO's name paged. Who did they page?? Me Plat, her zilch..... I was shocked. Happily shocked with 1A & 1B. The food was much better. :) :) :)

ciobel, my dirt-cheap class was "L"...about as low as they get. $206 EWR-LGW. Got three op-ups in six flights in 2004.

Haven't flown through LGW lately though... my last seven trips to Europe have been through AMS & LHR on KLM & AA.

I prefer the "Southern Hospitality" of DL at ATL than the "New York Pissy .....es" with CO at EWR.
This experience outlines why I am medallion instead of nOnePass Elite.
SR

That is pretty good
 

That you got UGed on L ... yeah, that is as low as it goes, maybe you have some british accent that charmed the Pclub ladies? Actually, I am not aware of any published sales in the US that can go down to L ...

Oh well, where there is no rule, being nice and sweet surely paid off ...

While still a platinum about 5 years ago, I was on EWR MAD (petermax plane), and I knew coach was oversold- they ended up upgrading 11 people.

I asked nicely the gate agent, and asked the gray coat, and was told noboth times. I went to a original large P-club, and was told no. I went to the next P-club, and was told no. At that point it was embarassing to ask again. I went into the final P-club, the old one near gate 108 or so, and chatted with the agent there, never mentioning an upgrade. About 10 minutes later, she came to me at the bar, and asked for my partners last name, and offered two upgrades. So, I asked 4 times and was told "NO", and I finally decided to give up, and was pleasantly surprised at the bar.

I guess - don't ask!

It was fun boarding when the gray coat took my boarding pass, and saw I was upgraded when she had emphatically told me they dont do that sort of thing!!

Stephen.

Sounds like Continental international is still the way I remember it.

It makes some sense
 

If there is no rule for OP UG for the following reasons:

1. prevent speculative bookings
2. reward the highyield coach pax or nice people
3. empower the airport agents (virtually a benefit)
4. upkeep the product integrity (either high price, or no price, just like making money off lottery or hedge funds: to increase the chance, you have to cough up big money to increase the odds)

NWA gives out their frontcabin more liberally, and pax have so many ways to get UPed, the end result is both pax and the airline are worse off ...

The "L" fare sale was published. British Airways had a $99/49 GBP to any city in the United States around Nov 2003, and about 5-6 US airlines matched the fare for 2-3 weeks. Great time to book a cheap fare. It was good for travel until Mar 2004.

Unfortunately, we haven't gotten a similarly low sale on West Coast-London in Fall 2004 or 2005... :-(

I got my reply from the Continental rep... impressively, it showed up only about 36 hours after I submitted my letter to them via email. Even more impressive was the detail of the response and the research the customer service agent did (including looking into the specific details of who was upgraded on the flight I was referring to). The response was detailed, thorough, and very apologetic for the situation. I'm pleased with the explanations provided and the apologies that were given.

The email included details about the mysterious policies for operational upgrades that many are claiming CO won't publish.. Now I'm trying to decide, if it's such a secret, if I'm under a moral obligation not to disclose what was said in this email. ;)

Comments?

I think that you are under a FT-member, if not moral, obligation TO share the details! :D

Which one would that be? I've had an op-up on UA once, LHR-JFK, felt like I had won the lotto.

Did the CO rep put a confidentiality clause in his reply? If not, it shouldn't really be a secret and you would actually have the moral obligation to disclose it! :p

Here's the reply I received:
------------------

Dear Mr. neatbrian:

Thank you for contacting Continental Airlines Customer Care department.
I apologize for the manner in which our airport representative, as stated in your correspondence, responded to your concerns regarding the processing of upgrades on flight 90 from Newark to Tel Aviv on [removed] due to an over-sale in the economy cabin and if his actions insulted you personally and professionally. We value the loyal and dedicated customers who support our service and operation and it is our goal to provide you with the highest level of service at all times.

In an effort to ensure our passengers are treated in a fair and consistent manner regarding upgrades our computerized system processes upgrades for reward travel and the domestic complimentary upgrades. Complimentary elite upgrades are not offered on flights with a BusinessFirst cabin, including transatlantic and transpacific flights, flights to and from Central and South America, or flights within and between Hawaii, the Mid Pacific and Asia. In order to allow our customers the opportunity to make an informed decision regarding their travel needs, BusinessFirst mileage upgrades not cleared with in 72 hours of departure are removed from the waitlist and standby is not permitted at the airport on the day of the flight.

Complimentary upgrading is a complicated procedure, as we want to be sure our Elite members' status is properly recognized. Domestically and in the markets where complimentary upgrades are provided, our computer system monitors this information to try and make this process consistent and fair. Upgrading on international flights is provided in situations deemed necessary by the airline. In an over sale situation of international flights, our staff has the task of making sure every customer who may be displaced is accommodated, while trying to ensure the flight departs on time. While we would like to upgrade our Elite passengers in these situations, it is not always possible. These upgrades are not based on fare, class of service or Elite status.

The over-sale manager program is initiated in these situations and displays all volunteers in chronological order by time. Customers who check in at a kiosk have the opportunity to volunteer for denied boarding compensation, when the over-sale manager has been initiated. Unfortunately, the Over-sale report only indicated passengers were upgraded on this flight and does not list the names of the passengers, since they were not denied boarding. I was not able to access the information on these individuals who were upgraded to advise the time they were placed on the list for volunteering.

I regret if our representative did not take the time to explain this procedure to you and for the negative impression this occurrence may have given you regarding our service. We expect our representatives to provide friendly, courteous and professional service. Our staff should provide accurate information regarding our fares and these fares should be quoted from the computer system. Various fare combinations can apply based on availability. It is certainly disappointing to learn the actions of this representative lead you to believe he was not honest in providing information and the behavior you described displayed by this individual is not indicative of the level of service we want to provide to our customers.

Your comments and concerns have been documented in our corporate report so that the appropriate corrective measures can be taken. I hope you will accept my sincere apology regarding this experience, as we continue to work diligently to improve the services we provide to meet you travel needs. Thank you for making us aware of your concerns and allowing me the opportunity to respond.

------------

As I said, I'm very pleased with this response. I think it provides the apology I was looking for, it points out that the agent I was dealing with really was out of line in the way he handled the situation, and it sheds some much-needed light on how op-ups are supposed to happen.

It seems then that the secret is to check in as as soon as possible after this "program" is initiated. Has anyone seen this screen during OLCI, or is it just at kiosks? I wonder when it's usually started?

Thanks neatbrian

So, does this mean operational upgrades start by looking at those that have volunteered for denied boarding compensation? That seems a bit unfair. Many of those persons are the ones that want to "play the system." Why should someone who is willing to take the next flight plus receive compensation go in front all of a sudden receive a seat up front?

On the face of it, it seems like CO is saving the compensation, but they're not. If they gave the op-up to an elite or high fare paying passenger, they would be making room in the back of the plane for the person who volunteered for denied boarding and no compensation would be due.

I had 2 opup on transatlantic flights this summer and I did not ask to be put on the VDB list or for an opup in neither cases.

I checked in in EWR approx 1 to 2 hours prior departure so I don't think I really qualify as an early check-in.

In the first case, it was a "battlefield upgrade"-style. I was already in my coach seat and the GA came on board and handed me my new BP. In the 2nd case, I found out I was opuped at the PClub, when checking my seating selection online (I wanted to check if the middle seat next to my was free).

While the email neatbrian received seems to contradict my perception,
I still think that the sole factor that worked in my favour were my expensive H fare, combined with my Plat status.

OTOH, on a AMS-EWR flight a couple of years ago, the BF concierge came on board and asked a pax to move to the BF cabin so he can free up the seat for a family to sit together. In this case, I think the physical location of the seat was more important than fare, status etc. as it would have taken much more time to do otherwise.

Bottomline, while it looks like that there may be some official policy, in practice, anything can happen...

Today 3 of my friends were op-up'ed on DAB-EWR-OSL. They all had their pilot uniforms on. They are student pilots/private pilots (not working for any airline at all, uniform is just a school policy), and none of them have any status with any airline.
EWR-OSL were J4 Y0 3 days ago, and J7 Y0 today.
I said that they should voulenteer for beeing bumped for more chances of an upgrade.
Guess they are pretty happy now!

It is all fair
 

First come first serve is the fairest fo all.

Otherwise, it is very hard to break the tie between Elite and High Yield pax.

Also, the key for VDB or OpUG is that there is NO guarantee of any kind, the must travels will not play the game at all, while players or lowerbidders are willing to take the hassle. That is the perfect way to gauge willingness to pay.

Yes, I have seen it on a very oversold flight to LAS.