EUA shenanigans????
 

It appears that something is definitely going on with SOME CO flights and that EUA may be being bypassed and manipulated in SOME cases.
The following flights are within 35 to 1 hour and 10 minutes from departure. The curent time is 11:04 EDT. Remember that these are lunch flights on a Wednesday:
CO 148 EWR-SFO Dep 12:10 A9F0
CO1726 EWR-SAN Dep 11:40 A5F0
CO1281 EWR-SEA Dep 12:05 A9F0
Note that I got the same results when I checked ITN. Also note that other lunch flights I checked (all within the 3 hour EUA run) including EWR to IAH and CLE and FLL mostly showed the expected A0FO.
So it looks like we have the worst of all worlds. The changes don't really show a reliable pattern yet, and EUA is now totally unreliable for some city pairs at some times on some days.
I also suspect that the recent reports of some flights going out only 1/2 full in FC is also related to the non-EUA release of A seats, resulting in some elites sitting in the back because of lazy/overworked gate agents who can't be bothered upgrading 5-10 people at the last minute. And then the question would be, if they had the time, what method would they use to do the upgrades? Or is it at their discretion? (Worst situation of all).
I have no problem with CO doing this, AS LONG AS they make an announcement. Not doing so, however, borders on unethical, IMO.

VULCAN: What system/source did U check besides ITN.

I've called CO before when I've seen F seats on Aeroplan/Etour within my applicable EUA window. In all 3 cases the CO CSR told me that there were no F seats available.

It sure would not be surprising if CO was manipulating the EUA on certain flights with high probabilities of last-minute/walk-up first class fliers.

[This message has been edited by Billiken (edited 07-09-2003).]

EUA is not a guarantee--CO make seats available for EUA that rev management feels will not sell. On popular full fare flights, they hold more seats back--if they don't sell them then they are given out at the airport. IMHO EUA is a bonus, not a right.

Nevertheless, I agree that it can be a confusing and sometimes infuriating system. . .

i think too much time is spent on this type of analysis (i.e., spying).

book and exit row seat and if an upgrade comes through, great. it usually does for platinum flyers.

it certainly can't be the "better" food you crave, is it? relax. you'll get your upgrade. all the analysis in the world won't change continental...it will only increase your blood pressure.

[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 07-09-2003).]

I checked only ITN and e-tour and both agreed 100%.

I don't worry about my blood pressure and I don't worry about getting an upgrade. I fly only NW (72,000+ miles with a 100% upgrade rate). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Besides, this analysis is fun. It makes me feel like we have detected something that CO does not want us to know.

I WAS thinking about switching some business back to CO, but this new wrinkle has changed the game. Its back to nothing more than a gamble, with someone in yield management and maybe even the gate agent deciding whether or not I get the upgrade.

As I said, I don't mind CO doing this. All I want to know is the rules that everybody plays by, up front.

Why do you care if others analyze this issue? And care enough to presume to tell others how they should behave and not behave, at that..."too much time spent (spying)"..."relax"....

I think the main complaint here is that some have noticed F going out 1/2 empty with elite members in the back when they should have been EUAd. I've not seen this happen myself, but others claim to have seen it.

i didn't think this happened that often due to "battleship upgrades," or whatever they are called. i have very rarely seen open seats in first class on domestic flights this year.



[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 07-09-2003).]

i didn't think this happened that often due to "battleship upgrades," or whatever they are called. i have very rarely seen open seats in first class on domestic flights this year.
"battlefield upgrades" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif True about very few empty seats in FC (I will digress a bit and say that I do see empty FC sets on about 25% of NW flights, but they are becoming fewer and fewer).
It would be interesting to keep track of reports of FTers who report empty seats on CO. With all of the comps CO has given out, I assumed that it was very rare that there would not be one more silver on any flight that could not be upgraded. I've seen at least two reports recently on this board about empty seats. The question is whether these are an anomaly or are we spotting soemthing which is real across the network. Remember that, as a group, we have great exposure to all of CO's operations and because of this we may well detect if something is amiss that a single, non-FTer might pass off as a fluke.
If its not an anomaly, then maybe it is another sign that CO is messing with the EUA and it really is affecting upgrades. I would be pretty upset if I was elite and saw the front of the plane leave with many empty seats.

[This message has been edited by Vulcan (edited 07-09-2003).]

EUA is neither a bonus nor a right, it is benefit associated with the OnePass program, and those of us who fly make decisions about which carrier(s) to fly based on their benefit to us.

The complaint asserted on this thread is that CO is claiming to offer a certain benefit that many people here feel is not actually offered in a substantive way.

To say you can upgrade before departure based on availability, but not to provide availability, is to say that you CAN'T upgrade before departure.

Just like if I said you can redeem a free ticket for 25,000 miles based on availability, and come to find out that very, very little availability exists--that has the effect that you CAN'T redeem a free ticket for 25,000.

I believe that's the point.

I changed my routing recently to connect in MSP rather than DTW. I leave home 1 hour earlier and land 45 mins ealier than the DTW connection, but the flight to MSP serves a meal (it's 734 miles; aparantly 700 is the cutoff). Oh, and the cabin is usually at 50% or less, so I normally pick a seat with an empty next to it. That way I can watch a movie on my laptop and set my breakfast next to me on the tray of the empty FC seat! :-)

as more and more CO elites fly NW because of the higher success rate re upgrades.

(note to self: point gun and pull trigger aimed at myself if i ever coordinate travel plans around receiving an airline meal.)

Xyzzy has a good point, for those like me whose nose is into every reason why as a Platinum I am not upgraded for a stupid reason...can we set a place to keep track of flights with empty FC or employees upgraded instead? I bet it is more than you think and Yes, I am sane and have a full time job.

When I said bonus, I meant benefit or perhaps "sweetener." Thanks for the clarification.

Still, the only "commitment" made by CO is that you will get space available upgrades automatically. . . .which leaves revenue management with a lot of responsibility to determine what is available.

I have flown a lot of flights over the past several years and have only flown in Y once when there was a seat open up front and that was my mistake (I was tired and accidently didn't add myself to the FC upgrade waiting list at the kiosk--dumb me. . .).

My record with EUA has been pretty good and the rest of my upgrades have come through battlefield promotions.

I also recently upgraded to BF to/from NRT for 25k miles (full fare Y) with no problem, so generally, my experience with OP has been very positive and perhaps that colors my view that sometimes shenanigans are not shenanigans. . . future experience may change that.

Not to beat a dead horse, but SOMETHING is going on that affects upgrades and that concerns a lot of Fters.
Before this "enhancement", the system ran at the 3 hour point and worked fairly well. The computer did what it was told and dished out upgrades as per its alogrithmn.

If that last 3 hour run does not occur on some random flights, the whole premise of EUA is in question, since it APPEARS that its up to the gate people to dish out the upgrades, and if they have A9F0 to deal with in a short time, who knows how they will allocate the seats. Remember that CO has stated that it will be by status, then fare code within status.
I don't plan on spending a lot more time on monitoring, but I checked briefly last night. At 17:18 EDT, the 18:40 EWR-SEA flight was A8F0 and the 17:50 EWR-CLE flight was A6F0. Does anybody beleive that there were no silver elites that were going EWR-CLE (hub to hub) that could have been assigned at least 4 of the 6 A seats that were unassigned 32 minutes before flight time.
I think its reasonable for yield management to hold back maybe 2 seats, but not more.

... in his best Officer Barbrady voice...
"Are you calling shenanigans" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Why don't you start a topic just for that -- like the one we had ONLY for questions to be asked of CO when (ha ha) they were scheduled for an FT chat.

I hear you Vulcan, but what is really happening here is an airline that couldn't care less about it's customers is messing with a flawed formula that is more of a marketing gimmick than a policy, and on the rare ocassions when it appears to be fairly stable is still subject to the intentional, deceptive manipulations of thousands of questionable employees "helping their co-workers to their benefits" and generally operating via whatever whims they wish, combined with the unintentional, ignorant manipulations of an IT department that can't keep a website up and running on any given day (much less a web event day) using stupid internally generated code and stolen code and programs.

Just fly someone else.

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 07-10-2003).]

What's so bad about airline food (when you get it)? I'm not so picky about food that I won't eat something if it does not meet lofty standards. When I'm hungry, airline food is just fine. It's not great food, but it's ok. And I appreciate that the airline provides it, and in FC attempts to serve it in a refined style. I like not having the hassle of picking up food before I board the flight, and would prefer to have it served to me at no extra cost or effort. Very rarely have I encounted airline food that was unedible. But I admit I'm easy to please. Are more people than I think food snobs?

[This message has been edited by anthonyanthony (edited 07-10-2003).]