Well said venk it is one disturbing aspect of these boards ( an certainly society in general) the intolerance and boorish behaviour shown by people you would think should know better.
Like you I have no kids and am not trilled seated near to chatty, seat kicking, screaming kids but for god sake try to be a little more tolerant, just remember it might be possible that you were a kid once.
Mike

I always have a great deal of sympathy for parents on board. Although I don't have kids, I can see that it is challenging at times and I feel for them. Many parents prepare, in advance, for airplane trips by bringing along small snacks, activities and things that would make the child more comfortable and keep them occupied. Many don't. Many simply show up and expect that everyone else on board should share in their aggravation. I am not suggesting these parents were doing that, but if you bring an infant on an all-nighter type of flight and request a seat directly adjacent to a galley, you are fooling yourself if you believe this child will get some good sleep. The galley is the center of activity in the passenger cabin, regardless of the time of day or night. It's where the F/A's do their jobs. It is not unreasonable to expect that they will keep their voices down in respect for those nearby but it is unreasonable for one to expect that they will not complete their inflight service and then be completely silent so that your "little one" can sleep.

In response to your last paragraph, I see little chance that this child will not grow up to be self indulgent and selfish. Based on the parents initial posting, if the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, this child is doomed.

you must not be a long-time reader of this board. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 11-10-2002).]

Wow, some of you have said such hateful things, I'm not sure where to start.

1. We requested "bassinet seating" which I did not know would be in one of the loudest areas of the plane...thought they would have put a little more thought into that.

2. We purchased a separate seat for our son (even though he was eligible to ride for free in a lap) and gave him some medicine before the flight. We brought along a bunch of food, milk, toys, books, etc., but when you're really tired, you just want to...let's think this one out, folks...that's right, sleep.

3. Plenty of people were inconvenienced...I'd estimate that less than a third of the people on the flight wanted anything to do with the meal or drinks...and I was certainly awake to observe it all.

4. I'm usually one of the first people to say something nice to the FAs, I try to ask them how their day is going, thank them for the service, etc. I think they're often mistreated, especially when something goes wrong that is not their fault (well, them and the gate agents). But in this situation, it seemed (the noise, at least) to have been mostly their inconsideration. The level of talking and laughing was way past what seemed to be an appropriate level. I understand a plane is not a library, but this was very different from other overnight (international and domestic) flights I have experiences on United, Northwest and other airlines.

5. I never said anything nasty or called anyone a ditz or slugged anyone, I simply said I felt like it. I didn't realize I was writing to a group of people who have never had a single negative thought in times of stress. You're amazing, really.

Wait a sec... Weren't you the one who elicited opinions on the issues?

Now that you got 'em, you hold in contempt those whose opinions you don't like?

Sheesh!

No wonder you seem to have such a hard time.

Wow, some of you just love to try and bring people down. You're certainly taking my comment out of context. I was simply defending myself from those who focused on the frustrated thoughts I had at the time...and not the issues!

I'm happy to hear real, reasonable arguments, like the one FAforCAL made. I did not know that the service was out of their control. Although I still think it's stupid on a flight like that, I now see that had nothing to do with the crew.

Sheesh yourself!

gee, ya think?! welcome to flyertalk.com. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

i have to say, this thread is going right up there with some of my favorites. others include the endless inquiries regarding the contents of some worthless elite kit and the famous milanos/doritos thread. huge http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by fly co to see the yanks (edited 11-10-2002).]

First of all - the title of this thread should be edited, because it is very misleading. I opened this thread expecting to read something horrendous done to by your crew. But all I read about was a hardworking FAs, just doing their job. You say you didn't know that the bulkhead seat was by the galley - that is why you should've investigated the configuration/seating of the aircraft, if a "quiet/sleeping" enviroment was wanted for you child. It is an airplane, not a private suite. Their is always going to be noise, talk, chatter on an airplane. Please don't try that "shushing" tactic again - I would find that to be insulting.

Like it was stated before, we do a meal service, even if only one pax wants the food. Its in our service guideline. We have to restock the beverage cart, which is very noisey. Believe or not, we are actually allowed to talk in our galleys amongst ourselevs when we aren't serving/working. Are we suppose to sit in silence? I highly doubt the FAs were speaking in elevated tones. I'm curious, what do you plan on writing in your letter? Because I didn't think anything done on your flight was obnoxious or rude.

**Joey walks by, whistling with hands in pockets, as the flickering tongues of this flame war lick at his pant legs, remembering fondly the time he spent once in flight when "Mommy" decided to change the diaper of "The Precious Cargo" at her seat, as those air plane bathrooms are oh sooo dirty. I guess one person's precious cargo is another's stink bomb. It's all about one's perspective, isn't it? **

[This message has been edited by Joey (edited 11-10-2002).]

I think most people can understand that at the time the situation was frustrating for you and your family. However, you stated that this situatiion has been bugging you all week and were considering writing a letter. I would not pursue the issue of the noise for the mere fact that you never really approached the crew about it and when you had the chance, you did it in a disrespectful manner (call me old-fashioned but I think there are less rude ways to get someone to quiet down than by "shooshing" them, if you indeed literally "shooshed" them).

As far as the negative thoughts, it is understandable to have those at the moment(and usually a good thing not to act on them impulsively) but hopefully a few days later you might have calmed down and realized that the "ditz" was probably sincerely showing you some compassion and empathy. Hindsight is 20/20 but I think this would have been a great time to say, "I'm sorry to bother you, but my baby is having a hard time falling asleep. I hate to ask this but is there anyway those in the galley could please lower their voices a bit". While always uncomfortable, handled with tact, the interaction does not have to be confrontational and you certainly would have held higher-ground in your argument had they not complied. Talking to one person privately is also less daunting then approaching a whole group and thus you are less likely to be in a defensive/attack mode.

As far as the service/lights issue, you are certainly in your right to address this issue with Continental. Maybe Continental could instruct their cabin crew to keep the lighting more dimmed during the service portion of their red-eyes. Once again, use a tactful approach in your letter. Rather than merely complaining(keep the negativity in check and don't berate the crew), you might suggest a few ways in which they could find a middle-ground in helping satisfy all passengers. Maybe they could leave the carts in the galley after the initial service and walk through the cabin individually and quietly offering drinks to those that are awake. While you might think CO service standards are stupid others might actually enjoy them so maybe there is a middle ground.

I think maybe most people were a little taken aback by the tone of your initial posting because it may have read a little bit self-centered and overly negative. However, one of the drawbacks of the net is that things can come off very much out of context so I for one will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope you make the right choices next time you encounter such an uncomfortable situtation.

[This message has been edited by FloridaBoy (edited 11-10-2002).]

I can only say that in my extensive flying in the last 3 or 4 years including on CO with considerable time in bulkhead seats and hence sometimes near galleys on all kinds of planes, I have never had a case where I could hear much from the FAs after "lights down".

I am afraid I do not understand why it is considered normal to have a loud enough conversation for the poster to discern the topics of conversation AFTER "lights down". In some cases, I have seen the FAs congregate at the tail of the plane rather than the middle even if they are BF/FC/BC FAs. This reported scene would appear to be an exception than the norm if as described.

I am not taking sides on what may have actually happened here but is it unreasonable in general to expect some silence from the galley after "lights down" regardless of whether a child is involved? I am very surprised at the "if you are near a galley, you got to deal with it" comments here (I can understand during the service but not after "lights down"). If this was an endemic problem, wouldn't someone surely have contributed this notation in seatguru.com? Even a search on the message board turns up nothing for "noisy galley" http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So either the child and its parents were extraordinarily sensitive to noise or the FAs in this case were indeed a bit insensitive after "lights down" in a preventable way. If the latter, I still think courteous communication between the two parties would have solved the problem. I find it hard to buy "the FAs had no choice" suggestions here.

Edited to add:

If an airline cannot provide a reasonably silent cabin through the entire cabin after "lights down" from things under their control, then in my opinion the airline has "failed" (regardless of whether it is due to the FAs or the service policies). Perhaps a constructive letter to make them manage noise levels might be more helpful than a complaint.

[This message has been edited by venk (edited 11-10-2002).]

I have resisted jumping into this thread, but I won't any longer.

No matter how much blind indignation parents show when it comes to their "little guys," I just think that it is plain inconsiderate to haul young children around in public places.

I don't like to see or hear kids in restaurants, stores, airplanes, etc. And you know what, judging by the behavior of the children in these places, the kids don't like being there either. I don't understand why parents who otherwise dote on their kids seem to think that it is a good idea to subject them to discomfort and anxiety in public places.

So not only are you acting without consideration for the needs and feelings of the people with whom you are sharing the public space, chances are you are ignoring your own child's needs as well.

It is important to point out that you brought that baby on the flight because YOU found it would be beneficial to YOU in some way. Maybe you didn't want to hire a babysitter or leave the child with a relative. Maybe you couldn't find someone to take care of the child and taking it was the only way to make the trip. Maybe you just really enjoy being with your child.

Now you might say that you were going to visit the child's grandparents or relatives, or that you live in Hawaii and the child needed to travel to the mainland for medical treatment, etc. Even if this were the case, if your child were truly your first priority, you would have made better arrangements.

Parents need to understand that the deference that our society rightly accords to the needs of children doesn't extend to their needs or give them a licencse to behave foolishly or inconsiderately. Carrying a baby with you doesn't automatically elevate your needs (not those of the baby) above those of others and it doesn't excuse your unwise decisions.

In other words, just because you have a baby with you doesn't mean that you should be entitled to say that two hundred plus people should remain absolutely quiet for six or more hours and remain the entire time without food or drink.

While I sometimes wish that other pax would turn off their reading lights so I can sleep, I also recognize their right to use the lights. Likewise, I have only been awakened a few times by a food or beverage service. If people like you succeed in having food and beverage services reduced aboard CO aircraft, I will be very angry indeed.

Finally, if you have ever flown in an airplane, you should be aware that bassinets are attached to the bulkhead. What do you suppose is behind that bulkhead? A babbling brook? No, its a lav or in your case Babbling Brooke herself.

jh

[This message has been edited by JaredH (edited 11-10-2002).]

Personally, I don't have any kids of my own yet, and I have to tell you that there are few things that irritate me more than a screaming infant on a long flight when I'm trying to sleep. However, I don't think you can totally blame the FAs for your situation either. Everyone who's posting here seems to have forgotten a key part of the argument: we're on a PLANE. It's not like you can exactly get up and go someplace else if the area you're in is too noisy. I was once on a JFK-SJC evening flight, (AA as it happened,) and somebody spilled or broke a bottle of perfume. There was a kid of maybe 7 or 8 sitting behind me who started having a reaction to the intense, sickly-sweet smell that filled the cabin. Despite her coughing and wheezing there was simply nothing that anyone could do for her. The FAs ended up bringing her into FC just so she could get away from the smell for a little while, but that was only for half an hour or so. This thread reminds me of that situation, and the fact that while I was plenty irritated by both the smell and the noise, there was simply noplace to go. Everyone, both passengers and crew, have to realize that being cooped up in a small contained area is likely to fray the nerves of even the best of us. Sure, maybe the FAs were being a little rude and ended up waking up the "little guy," but at the same time they also have a right to do their job. I guess the only solution is for everyone to try and respect each other, as cliche as that sounds.

Just my (rambling) 2 cents.

I don't have much to add to this thread, as I think others have covered most of it, but I do have a couple of specific comments.

I'm not sure I see what you find so bizzare. After takeoff, they provided a round of drinks, some food, and one more round of drinks. What's so "bizzare" about this? Considering that they can't start the service at the very least until 20 minutes or so after takeoff, and that they have a potentially full coach cabin to serve, I don't think completing these duties within 90 minutes of takeoff is at all out of the ordinary, let alone bizzare. I for one enjoy and expect a meal on a 5 hour flight, regardless of departure time. And I don't think that 2 beverage services is out of the ordinary either.

Looking at the above quotes from your message, and particularly at the parts that I put in italics (fully realizing that not all were verbalized), I think that you can see where at least part of the problem lies. The FAs may have indeed been noisy, and in fact inconsiderate. But, unless you had reason to believe that they were doing it on purpose, the best course of action would have been to politely explain to one of them (preferably the lead FA) that many people on the plane were trying to sleep on this overnight flight, not the least of which was your infant, and could they please try a bit harder to be quiet while performing their duties?

It's entirely possible that they didn't fully realize that they were being a disturbance. And, as has been pointed out by others, there were several hundred other passengers, probably many of which were looking forward to their meal and beverage service.

In these cases, I think the diplomatic approach is best. Assume that the other person means you no ill will, no matter how difficult this may seem at the time. After politely mentioning it to them, hopefully all will be resolved. If not, especially if you get an attitude problem in response to a reasonable and polite request, then this is the point when letters need to be written.

I personally would have liked to stay awake for that part, preferably with a good view of the galley.