This was supposed to be a part of the 3hr EUA system. It is not apparent that it is yet functional.

B or C,was just thinking of the "glory years" of CO, probably '98-'99. I became a OP member (not elite) during CO Lite! So their improvements really struck a cord during the late '90s. So sad, especially when I feel attacked whenever I call WECARE2. Anyway, glad you documented your decision with CO.

This is highly speculative. There is no evidence to suggest that historical booking data is a factor in EUA and I can assure you that CO's CRS/yield management systems are not sophisticated enough to operate in this manner.

It positively did not work for me this week... checked-in early for a connecting flight... went from A5 F0 to A0 F0 while I was in the air.

OK. Syllogism time.

EUA is based on yield management which is based on historical data.

Therefore, EUA is based on historical data.

I will not name names, but will say this is *not* speculative. Go after my misapplication of logical constructs, my poor diction, semantics, etc., all you want. (You can also do the same for rationalizing not going to another airline, and learning their new system, the ropes there, learning curve all over again, etc. But once I get through these remaining trips in coach on CO I'll be yucking it upstairs on a UA 747 for as much as I'd have paid CO to sit in coach on the same trip).

Guys, six to one, half-a-dozen to the other... the underlying changes and their effect are real.

If these changes work in your favor, all the more power to you.

[This message has been edited by Beef or Chicken? (edited 03-16-2002).]

My EUA % is 17/21 81 %

My actual upgrade % is 20/21 95.2 %

(Already have EUA's for the next flight (3/18 -@ Five Day Window Q Fare) which will make me 18/22 [82 %] EUA and 21/22 [95.5 %] upgraded)

Of the four non-EUA's One Coach, Two immediately upon check in and one rescue from the back of the plane.

Let's see what happens tommorow when the five day window opens for my 3/22/02 Q fare flight.

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"A Southwest line never gets longer, It only gets wider"

There are some really well-reasoned, thoughtful-- and most importantly-- relatively polite arguments in this thread. Really cool. I'm done with CO, haven't flown 'em in 2002, very happy at AA-- but I still can't help but reading this thread with utter fascination. I hope what's being discussed isn't the case-- or at least that it's a work in progress.

One can't help but acknowledge the "logic" (from a CO beancounter's point of view, only,) of the idea. Then again some said that about HoKey to those of us who thought HoKey was an affront to all of us who had been devout COholics for many years.

I don't disagree that this would be a completely valid way of running your business. However, it completely flies in the face of what the published elite benefits are. Flat out, my T fare should get the upgrade before a gold elite's K fare.

I'm perfectly ok with a platinum's K fare getting the upgrade over my T fare regardless of time of booking, but that's within elite class.

I'm still waiting for more evidence that CO has really changed the rules on us. I suspect it's much more an issue of a broken IT system than a major rules change, but frankly, I don't think any of us really know the answer yet.

In the meantime, I'll probably just fly lots of NW segments until CO can get it sorted out.

I guess the bean counters better have the FA's removes this from the handbook "We know you have a choice of carriers...." Don't wanna give the PAZ any ideas...LOL

Literally, they are still consistent with the published elite benefits even if fare status was considered above all else. We have all just believed one possible interpretation of it, that is all. You can even make a case that it was the intended spirit of the published story. However, the published benefits do not prevent the use of the fare basis as the primary factor.

The 5-day, 3-day and 2-day still run except if the seats are not released, they just land up doing nothing and the elite status gets no benefit. One could argue that this is one reason why the seats are not being released. The EUA guideline says they take the status (S), fare (F) and time (T) of booking into account and we have assumed it is in that order but nowhere have they made that claim. The order could be (F, S, T) or (S, F, T) or even (F, T, S) and still be consistent with the published statement.

I agree with you that we do not know if this is intentional or a glitch.

I can just see Gordon's next book, to be in a bookstore near you soon...

"Who Knew Worst To First Could Be Round Trip?"



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Welcome to Domestic HoKeY. Enjoy your flight!

Just as a note:
Reward Desk Agents (usually located in Salt Lake) are different from OnePass Agents, all of whom are located in Houston. Reward Desk agents are RES agents who can book OnePass reward travel. OnePass agents (the NON-toll-free number) help with missing mileage credits, address changes, name changes, enrollments, and all other "non-reservation" issues.

The reason I switched to CO (away from American) is that, 4 years ago, I bought a Y ticket and was immediatedly upgraded to first class. (This was also right after AA really royally botched a trip). I was not even silver. Upgrading Y's is nothing new. As for what happened recently, remember the double elite miles late last year? I suspect there are many more Platinums this year than in the past. Also, CO's number of flights are still down since Sept 11, and flights seem to be starting to fill up again, and prices are rising. From Sep 11 until Mar 1, I got an EUA on each of the 23 segments I've flown. The only one in which I didn't get an EUA was on an ERJ. This week I'm traveling MSY to PHL, and looks like I will not get one this time. Oh well. The way I see it, at least CO's business is picking up, which means they will stay healthy, which means I will not lose all my miles due to bankruptcy or merger anytime soon. I'm sticking with CO.

Regards,

Patton22, platinum elite for three years.

I wanted to check on an earlier comment, before posting again. On any multi-segment ticket, CO does break down the cost for each segment. So if they do use fare basis for upgrading, they do have the data to see who gets the priority for each segment - doesn't matter if the trip is multi-segment or one leg. I certainly hope this isn't happening, since most of my trips are booked well in advance.

Zip: since these alleged changes are very recent, I only have (2) itineraries to go on here, hardly statistically significant.

When you say multi-segment, I'm not sure if you mean connections or circle trips, etc. I had a (6) segement itinerary two-weeks ago and received EUA for 3/6 flights (all Q/T).

But, from my experiences, your chances of getting the upgrade are more hindered by checking in for your flights than anything else.

Again, based upon what little info I have, I never recevied an "automatic" upgrade on the day of travel on a connecting flight for which I already checked in.

So, for the 3/6 which I didn't receive an 5-day EUA upgrade, I also did not get 3hr EUA. Then the next week on a connecting itinerary for which I did not receive the 5-day EUA, I also did not get the 3hr EUA.

On all of those flights, the A to F conversion happened when I was in the air, so I never had a chance.

[This message has been edited by EWR-COflyer (edited 03-17-2002).]

I dont know...I was on a AMR flight out of SFO on a full Y and wasnt allowed to get within 10 feet of the list for first class...despite plenty of availability. That turned me off of that airline forever. They seemed appaled that I even asked.

I used to feel that way about CO as my upgrade % was never as high as those who posted in here (though always solid). But lately, it has actually improved substantially. I am not sure why, but my experiences seem to be the opposite of many in here. Perhaps most in here arent high yield passengers?

That's exactly and precisely what's being postulated in these threads-- are low fares somehow being excluded from EUA-- something that would represent a HUGE change from the way things were and the way things are described in OP elite materials. An "earthquake" if you will.

But I think you just wanted to "get it on the record" that you are a high-yield pax, as opposed to the cheapskate low-lifes who do all the complaining here on the CO forum. Did I misunderstand your message?

Yes, you did misunderstand. I have no idea why you would think anyone would want to prop one's self up in an anonymous message board...especially since it doesn’t imply that one is wealthy since I have already stated in previous posts that I often do not pay for my tix.

Moving away from my personal history (which people are far too interested in for some reason), if it is true that the sample of the flying public in this board are lower-yielding passengers, then it probably explains a large percentage of the negativity. Nonetheless, the upgrade domestic upgrade system does seem to be confusing many passengers..."cheapskate" (using Jon's term) or not.

I agree with others in this thread that say it makes sense for those who are high yield get more benefits for their dollars.

I also agree with almost everyone that a policy should be communicated clearly so we all can make informed decisions of what airline we fly based on our particular needs.

>Driving Rain

My wife (Plat) is on an $1,800 H ticket EWR-SAN this Wednesday and still has not cleared. We are still at A5 F0. It will be interesting to see if her H fare is of any relevance.

I started a similar link on the NWA site and "Beef or Chicken" was kind enough to provide this link.

This is absolutley happening on both NWA and Continental and I believe it is even worse that indicated on these posts.
My sources tell me that a minimum of 50% of all FC will be held until day of departure regardless of fare paid. Also, in FLL last week, the President's club check-in desk told me that Silver's were getting upgrades before PLAT's because they were arriving at the airport earlier. Are Continental and NWA crazy? Is a SIlve who buys 3 full fare tickets a year more important than a PLAT who buys 30 tickets at $1,000/each? Where is the reward for being a PLAT? If the 5 day upgrades really don't exist anywhere than where is the perk? They can't think the 125% mileage credit is such a good perk by itself can they?

Last week on a $2,500 multi-leg ticket I did not even receive an advance upgrade on the Y portion of my flights and get this...on a 24 seat (FC) 757 with 22 open seats remaining one day prior to the flight there were still no seats released for an upgrade until check-in.
Today is my 5 day window for a NWA flight from SMF and I have never in 4 years not received an upgrade on this flight at the 5 day window..guess what no upgrade and 9 open FC seats.

If this continues I am out of both CO and NWA and I have earned over 1 million miles with them.

Also, where is our notification of a change to the terms and conditions? Those Bast... thought they could sneak this by us and no one would notice?

Circle the wagons everyone...and quick look over there..just trying to distract you while a quickly fax in to UA and AA for comp Plat status before the fax line is busy from everyone else.

The fax number for AA status match 1-817-963-7882 (include recent statements as well as elite credentials.)

Also, from fewmiles' ultimate guide to AAdvantage:
http://plaza.powersurfr.com/fewmiles...challenge.html

From another post of mine recently:

There are also some things that your average non-AA flyer would just never know about.

For one, on every flight you earn miles (and "points" which are tracked separately-- and are a good story in and upon themselves.) But you also earn "credits" towards free domestic upgrades at the same time. If log a LOT of miles, you might just find that your "credits" can cover you for a decent percentage of your domestic upgrades. These credits can also be purchased outright-- right on AA's webpage-- so you can upgrade yourself to domestic FC (or BC on 3-class planes) on any fare simply by paying for the privilege ($31.25 per 500 miles flown.)

Again, this does not burn your miles-- those are tracked separately. On longer flights using actual miles is a better deal.

Additionally, if you don't use those credits that you earn, currently AA will let certain members trade them in for miles.

The net effect? A Plat on AA can essentially earn de-facto triple miles on every single flight he takes (not including promotional bonuses or class-of-service "point" bonus.) That's why when someone says "AA gives 100% bonus, CO gives 125% bonus" it's not actually the case-- AA is basically giving it's mid-level elites a 200% on all flights, if you include the credits (sometimes referred to as stickers,) in the equation-- as you should.

Another thing worth mentioning: AA runs a small number of 3-class planes domestically, trans-cons, etc. If you book on one of those, you upgrade to J instead of F--BUT, on said planes the J, IMHO, is much better than most of CO's domestic F (BF seating clearly excepted.) The domestic J-class seating is the same as the international J-class, generally. So, you get an adjustable footrest, nice pitch, good recline (by domestic standards) etc. The same AA J-class which is IMHO discernibly inferior to CO BF is discernibly superior to CO domestic F. On a trans-con this makes a BIG difference. BTW, on some AA 3-class planes, the flight is sold as 2-class, so elites get the F-seats.

As far as international goes, AA kicks the living crap out of OP. All fares upgradeable, real international partners, elite status earning on said partners (with some important exceptions,) lounge access on international trips, sleeper-seat FC available via reward travel...the list is very long-- and for a CO flyer, very painful.

EWR-COflyer, I meant both connections and circle trips by "multi-segment." CO can always price out any one segment. The experiences that you relate certainly suck.

AA does not give 200% bonus folks...one can sell back their "stickers" or "points" and relinquish their upgrades to F in order to get that 200%....but that's a big step....sitting in the back is just not for me...even in MRTC. Travelling from EWR, I would have to make more connections on AA than I could imagine....a complete waste of time. That's a REAL BIG factor in my decision to stay with CO....that..and of course my 100% domestic upgrades.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Does that differ from the way I described it??

Yes...you do not say anywhere one will not fly in F if they want the 200% ...that's a big difference. Why didn't you just put it like this..?

CO 125% bonus + Free unlimited domestic upgrades take your chances http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

AA 200% bonus if you turn in your stickers and sit in coach(no F) (MRTC).
You have to remember that some folks don't know what "figure it into the equation is".....it actually means...give up your F upgrades. Say it for what it is.
AA would be a TERRIBLE choice for me domestically as stated above.





[This message has been edited by IM4Travel (edited 03-17-2002).]

I hear that CO loyalty marketing wants to create a bigger difference between them and AA to make the program harder to leave, so they're about to announce that Platinum domestic EUA's will now run at 10 days out, not just 5. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

They also say they're dropping the fare on all DC10s they're still flying to $59 one way anywhere they fly, they'll let you bring unlimited carry-ons onto all domestic 727s, and they'll now accept their competitors tickets as full fare payment for any flight (limited to Pan Am, Eastern, Peoples Express and TWA). http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

...and they have a bridge to sell......

[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 03-17-2002).]

If you feel that's less confusing... O.K.

I don't think anyone here was under the impression that AA gives free domestic upgrades-- maybe I'm wrong about that.

So, knowing that full well-- no free domestic upgrades on AA-- as a mid-level elite you can (not everyone) potentially earn 200% bonus on each and every flight-- before any promotional bonuses, class of service bonus, etc. This applies primarily to folks who have a heavy international travel schedule.

OR, instead of the 200%, any AA member can earn the 100% elite bonus and get a small percentage of their domestic flights upgraded for free.

Maybe putting that "OR" in there makes it clearer, as you suggest.

For absolute clarity, I'll make this "offer"; anyone here wants more info on AAdvantage, contact me via e-mail and I'll tell you everything you need to know.

It would be my pleasure. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Much better Jon...there are a lot of Lurkers here that need it spelled out. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

So Jon...NJD....let me pose this question...I'll give you my scenario....and let you guys think it through.

IM4 lives at the Jersey Shore..Spring Lake to be exact...this makes it really tough to fly out of NYC airports...EWR is 1 hour drive....Philly about 1 hour and 20 mins.
IM4 travels domestically every week mainly to these destinations....TPA,MEM,PHX,SEA,LAS,DTW,SFO,DEN,IA H,DFW,ATL and SLC. With MEM being the biggest one...(I do NW on that route).
IM4 travels maybe once to Europe on business per year...London to be exact.
IM4 travels maybe 3 or 4 times a year to Europe on leisure and to the Caribbean once or twice.
IM4 books all travel at least 3 weeks out due to the fact that he has to visit the same clients quarterly...or sometimes more.
IM4 books cheapo Q,T and V fares when available and sometimes a B or two.
ON CO....he can travel non-stop to just about all of the destinations listed above out of EWR.
IM4 values his time on the weekends and connecting would just make him spend more time.
Given this scenario...what would you guys do??? Stay with CO...or switch??? and to whom?????



[This message has been edited by IM4Travel (edited 03-17-2002).]

That's very true. Fair enough.

I might add this one little smart-a$$ comment:

On AA the FF program is detailed in their member's guide-- and then there are a few "unpublished" goodies that can really add up (lifetime Gold, Plat., sticker trade-in, challenges, first time EXPlat qualifier VIPow bonanza, etc.)

On CO you have to watch them like a bad baby-sitter just to make sure they adhere to the "published" terms of their FF program.

Under that scenario? Nobody in their right mind would switch to AA. There are so many strikes against it-- and if CO fits your needs-- who's asking you to switch?? You'd have to be insane to switch to AA under the circumstances-- unless your EUA's start disappearing, in which case a carrier switch might seem more appealing-- but still probably not AA.

[This message has been edited by JonNYC (edited 03-17-2002).]

OK..fair enough...just wanted to make sure that I wasn't missing something here. The other 2 choices that I would believe half-way feasible:

1) Switch to DL out of EWR...where I can still get to SOME of the destinations non-stop (ATL+SLC)...and quick-connects to MEM+TPA via ATL.

2) Drive to PHL and switch to US. Do you guys know much about the US program...and how much longer are they going to be around.


OR....I can follow NJD and start booking NW and HP.....are you having luck this way NJD?? I hear that there are whispers on the NW board about them holding back F seats also.

IM4:

1) From what I hear, the USAirways top tier (Chairman's Preferred) is very good. All the domestic upgrades plus a couple systemwides. And they still have offpeak awards... Strong Carib, Euro, eastern U.S. routes. Weak western U.S. coverage, no Hawaii/Asia (but they do have a VERY limited partnership with Northwest), Qantas award redemption available. Consensus on FlyerTalk is that PHL employees are subpar.

If Continental doesn't end this A9F0 nonsense soon, I will continue to use America West FlightFund for the western U.S. flying and begin to credit Northwest flights to Asia & Hawaii to HP also. For points east, I will seek a USAirways Dividend Miles comp to the Gold Preferred tier.

2) For what it's worth, this week I have three flying days. The first is on America West PHX-LAS. I've already been upgraded via the automated system (FlightFund Platinum via Corporate AWArds comp, M fare). The second is Continental (LAS-EWR-CMH). No upgrade, A9F0 (OnePass Platinum, T fare). The third is Northwest (CMH-MSP-DBQ). I've been upgraded on the first segment, the second segment is an Airlink flight without a First Class cabin (OnePass Platinum, T fare, Continental ticket).

If I want an upgrade out of Las Vegas, I better be at the airport by 5:00A for my 7:10A flight. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/mad.gif I guess I'll have to have John in the America West Club pour me a stiff drink...

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"We will not cut benefits from OnePass, our industry-leading frequent flyer program, because we remain committed to rewarding our most loyal customers."

-- Gordon Bethune (Continental's CEO) two weeks before significantly cutting benefits of the OnePass program

[This message has been edited by TransWorldOne (edited 03-18-2002).]

I agree with IM4.

I am 10 minutes from EWR by car, and I fly mostly domestic. AA is not a really viable option for me.

I was comped to Platinum elite on HP this year, with full intention of switching. However, while the Flight Fund program is superior to One Pass in many ways (they still have lower awards, reduced level rule buster awards for Platinum elites, nominiation of a silver to each platinum, with additional nominations for additional miles flown over Platinum, etc.) their one main drawback is they only give miles on Northwest code shares, not all Northwest flights like One Pass.

So, I will more than likely stay a One Pass Platinum, fly HP and NW, and go on CO only when I don't have time to connect, and/or can find a flight that has F available where I can burn miles or confirmed upgrade certs to avoid EUA like the plague it is.

I try to book only flights with "F" availability, and only at Q and T (or K on NW) where possible, and find (as has been reported) that CO "F" is almost non existent this year, and NW is somewhat harder to find. (On CO and to a certain extent NW there is almost a direct correlation, by the way, between flights that have T/K available not having "F", and flights that have "F" not having "T/K".)

As I see it, anyone in this situation (captive to EWR) should find it all the more important to "ride" CO as hard as possible to try and get them to improve the program and stop the benefit cuts and lies.

With all of my "complaining" the last few years, CO still takes my few hundred bucks the few times I give it to them and my seat gets to the destination the same time as all the others on the plane.

And between the companies I work for, and those I consult to, CO has lost hundreds of thousands of dollars to NW and HP over the last few years. So whilst I personally mignt not be able to leave, I've "spoken" with my wallet.

NJ David, I'm in the same situation, and while I'm not overly thrilled with the direction CO has been going with regard to diminishing upgrade availablilty--I'm still pretty satisfied with them (although, the first time I'm ever not upgraded--I'm sure I'll post). I too, will always check ITN for seating prospects and look for the larger FC cabins on transcons. But for some of my other flights from EWR (to MDW, ATL, BOS etc) I've done ok with EUA.
PS-Vulcan, I'd be interested to hear how your wife did on her H fare to SFO. Also as a Platinum, I've got an H to LAX next Tues with A9 D5 F0 Y9 H9...And I'm hoping to keep my FC % at 100!!--so I will once again check in at Penn Sta at 6:30am for my 4pm flight and hope for the best.

mauld:
Yesterday, she was A5 F0. As a Platinum on the $1,800 H fare to SAN on Wednesday, she did NOT get an upgrade last night and we are now at A2 FO. She is not a happy camper, to say the least. It looks like things are totally out of control.

Got my EUA for Friday on a Q Ticket in this morning's email 19/23 EUA through March 22, 2002 82.6 % ( Must be the Route )

3/21/02 Additional Comments
Got another EUA on 3/20 for a Q flight on 3/25, 20/24 EUA 83.333 % 23/24 Total Upgrade Percentage YTD 23/24 95.8333 %
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"A Southwest line never gets longer, It only gets wider"

[This message has been edited by dcwcce (edited 03-21-2002).]

Vulcan, This is one of the situations that worries me.. Mr Fish (like your wife???) is required to purchase the lowest fare available at time of purchase, and it is very often H instead of Y. Of course, this places them $$wise just slightly below the Y fare, but much farther down benefit-wise as Plats with little chances of upgrade.. His recent upswing in upgrades on Y and H fares has been phenomenal, but he hasn't done a CO transcon since Mar.1. And the worst has begun to happen (for a CO loyal): CO has overpriced themselves this week in the EWR-SFO market (between pricing and aggreements with his travel company), and now he has no choice but to fly UA (for about $500 less).. He even considered paying the difference from his own pocket, but there was no A avail (from Y) on his outbound anyway, so there is absolutely NO reason to retain his loyalty on this trip.. (And if he was on a CO H fare, there would be no doubt he would remain in back). This is becoming more common lately (both DL and UA seems to be pricing much lower than CO on the many routes). Similar is the CO/AA situation EWR-DFW; same Y fare, but no A avail.. (AA has a better flight schedule besides). If he's probably going to sit in coach, why not choose MRTC? He has actually been making a lot of comparisons lately in CO-F vs. AA-MRTC, and they aren't too far off. He has, in fact, stopped using stickers on most flights, as he finds AA MRTC very comfortable (he's 6 ft, very long legged, and uses his laptop through every flight).. Neither airline/FF program is perfect, but CO is certainly no longer superior for him... I am hoping that Ms. Vulcan has better luck with the "new" way EUAs seem to be running.. Mr Fish's Y and H EUAs have been coming in very close to flight date (1,2,3 days off), so there is still hope!! Let us know what happens...

That's my argument entirely.

It looks like there's a new One Pass slogan:

Continental - no point to staying loyal

How about

Continental - Pay hard, fly right

Continental - You pay, we loyal

OnePass - the most talked about airline program on the web

OnePass - the program that will let you accumulate miles in your account like no other airline

OnePass - Let us take you for a ride

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

All are literally true, of course!