Warm Nuts Theory
 

As was mentioned on a thread under "Trip Reports," there is a theory that when the First Class nuts are served warm, then the service tends to be excellent; when they are cold, the service tends to lag.

Two weeks ago we flew EWR to SAN in First and the nuts were HOT and the service was the best ever. My wife raves about that flight.

Well, in First with my wife on the way home from CLE to SAN on 11/27 (CO591), I jokingly told her about this warm nuts theory. She chuckled. Well, the nuts on this flight were served ICE cold. No exageration; they may have been kept in the refrigerator/cooler. She smiled but still doubted the theory. Dispite the unscientific nature of this theory, we expected a disproving instance. Nonetheless, I should have never doubted this ominous sign from the frequent flyer gods.

The worst First service ever. No joke. Spare you all the details, besides waiting over two hours to be asked for a refill/service (timed it and then had to push the call button)...Four flight attendents stood talking in the galley for over an hour.

Any other experiences with the warm nuts theory? I am a believer thus far http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

The warm nut theory is 100% perfect with me. On three "upgraded" FC flights with warm (actually hot) nuts, the service was great. On the other two FC flights with 'normal' nuts, the service was average to bad.

Please do not quote this 'out of context'.
Hot nuts and good service http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

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"Free" without charge or cost, having no obligation.

Stands to reason - the FA's looking to cut corners don't fire up the microwave. Obviously they consider the effort of heating them not worthy of their time.

Yet another person resists the temptation to drag this thread into the gutter. How long can it last? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif


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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

Makes sense to me.

I won't drag this thread through the mud. Whoever posts next, balls in your court.

dgolds:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own."

CMDR CATCOP says if the first person who drags this thread into the gutter is under ARREST!!!

ANd in jail: NO NUTZ FOR YOU! But We have a five year supply of MUSTARD PRETZELS!!!

Gee...I don't eat nuts. But now I feel like I should ask to "cop a feel" at least before turning them away!

arturo reely timpted on thes won. arturo themk thery werk vry guud. mebe el gato hombre knot putt arturo en jale.

This whole Nuts Theory makes me feel warm & fuzzy... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redface.gif

As the originator of the Warm Nuts Theory in a recent CO trip report, I am deeply complimented by all the cheap language plays.

I couldn't find the original thread on this astute theory, so please forgive me, and give BearX220 the credit as the progenitor http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Ouch, I think that we squeezed this one too hard.

COMMANDER CATCOP HERE! This POST SHOULD BE SHELLED AND THROWN AWAY!! It's getting carried away!!

I"m ready to put you all under arrest!!!

ANd no NUTS FOR YOU!@

As the returning ACTING CMDR CATCOP, I just want to say "Nuts to all of you, bring on the BEERS!"

ef arturo goin to jale enyweigh, thin he giv el gato hombre an knewshelf a reesin.

"hot nuts, git 'em frum the FA,"

"sea thet FA dresed en black,
he keep hes hot nuts en a sack."

"sea thet FA dresed en green,
he hav hot nuts, but they knot cleen."

sew now arturo wate fore el gato hombre.....

You are all under arrest!!! Off to the Motel Six with you all!!!

newself will be busy guarding you all while i"m off on vacation!!

And arturo's going into solitary!

PS: Newself! Let me know if anyone bribes you with beer and they will also be under arrest!

Have a nice day! CMDR CATCOP!

Getting back to the serious nature of this evaluation, I concur. My only experience flying CO was a recent FF ticket to Santiago, Chile in BusinessFirst. Out of Newark, the nuts were warm and the service almost as good as I was led to believe it would be. (I say almost, since it was not the epitome of J-class when compared to other airlines, but it was not too bad.)

The return from Santiago was another matter. Cold nuts and the rest of the service was mediocre, including the food. I had to ring several times to get wine with my courses, and even then I was looked at as being strange wanting to change from a white to a red for the main course. (Not only that, I had the audacity to ask to sample all wines aboard to compare them.)

Which leads to a new line of discusson for participants which I'll post separately as well: Airlines are finally going out of their way to improve the wine selections in the front cabin(s), but for the most part flight attendents are ignorant about how to serve wine. It is not good enough to serve each course, but not to also offer a refill or change of wine immediately. Having to wait until the whole rest of the cabin has been served before considering coming through with "top ups" is an insult to those of us who eat and drink in a civilized fashion.

Am I the only person who experiences such lack of understanding by flight crews on the wine front?

My personal favorite: Pouring the red wine right into your previously used (and probably not even quite empty) white wine glass.

Make your own rosé on the fly!

Shareholder, did I read you right? You asked to sample each wine available to see which one you liked best?

Do you ask to do that at restaurants? And do they let you do it?

Even if you do, you're on an airplane, not at a restaurant. Lighten up a bit.

The real problem with the mustard pretzels, which is the mandatory snack in the cat-tombs, is that, like barbecue sauce, you can smell them on your fingers for days, no matter how many times you wash.

Shareholder, most of us here on the CO board think you should run on to the plane, smile if the attendants bother to look at you, be thankful if your seat belt works, and if you get to your destination relatively on time, stop whining. After all, it's an airplaine, not some place where you should expect quality and service for your money.

SO forget how you like to have wine. On the plane, you'll have it like the rest of us do and be grateful we let you.

oooooooooooooh! arturo detect hosstiletie hear.

lemmin, yu hav yur whin the weigh yu wan et, an holdrshare hav hes whin the weigh he wan et.

Lemming, don't be such a lemming.

Warm up.

Ooooh, a little skyrage brewing here. And over such a little thing. We must chant for peace now: Ommmmmmm....

Look, on the wine question, the altitude, the low humidity, your own changed taste perceptors inflight, and the fact that the bottles are opened seconds before you drink the stuff -- all these affect the taste of the wine and make this inflight sommelier act something of an affectation.

On the ground, serious oenophiles may sniff, swish and spit to their heart's content. In the air, just drink it, my friend.

CO FF

Just to clarify. I did not ask to sample each wine prior to choosing one to drink with the appropriate course. Rather, on this 9-hour flight there were 3 reds and 3 whites. There were four food courses. Just like visiting a wine bar which also serves food (or tapas if you happen to be in Spain), the purpose of the exercise is to sample several different wines over the course of the evening.

As for the matter of changes which occur in the air, I agree this is not the ideal place to do a formal wine tasting, but I have worked my way through enough wineries and tastings to recognize the variances one expects at high altitudes. And wines for inflight service are chosen with this in mind, often being younger or having higher acidity to compensate for the vagaries of inflight service.

In any case, my desire to sample all these wines -- on these flights mostly Chilean and unavailable in North America -- should not be considered scandalous or aborant behavior as you suggest. In fact, several airlines actually encourage "tastings in the air", which is why their wine lists are getting more interesting and extensive.

To this end, Canadian Airlines not only provides a list of the wines served in J-class on international flights, but a small booklet that provides a considerable amount of infor- mation about each one. And in BA's F-class, I have actually been encouraged by the flight attendants to sample both "chardonnay" based whites to see if I prefer the French Montrachet or the Australian Chardonnay (or whatever the choices are).

The whole J- and F-class inflight experience on long intercontinental flights should be relaxed and club like, as if you have visited a good club or restaurant. That is a standard I hold a world class airline to, particularly when I've paid $5,000 or more for a flight. Some achieve this level effortlessly, others just don't seem to get it.

Than again, maybe too many passengers don't either. Or wouldn't recognize what such standards should be.

rite ooooonnnnnnn!!! holdrshare, arturo knot lik hes whin wiff lemin, ether.

The theory stands to reason. I believe it is CO's policy to only serve warm nuts on transcon and intnl flights, which are more likely to have better service than shorter hops.

jspeer, arturo hav warm nutz sirved to hem on two hour flites or moar plintie of tims.

I understand that some of our customers are aficionados of wines, but keep in mind that we are not a club or fine resturant. When you state that the other carriers encouraged your wine connoisseur tendencies; I can't help but wonder, how often do you fly on them? Can you state with absolute certainty that this happens on every flight?

I'd love to be able to guarantee that my peers -and me for that matter- will always provide this level of service, but as you know that would be a lie. I'm not making excuses, but the fact remains that our staff is human and we make mistakes. I believe that american society is to selfish to step past their personal comfort zones to take a risk and try to expand our horizons, knowing we might make mistakes - especially in a public forum and to a "Higher" class of society (not everyone in the US is like this, but many are, especially in a service career).

Keep this in mind: We are an airline looking to provide you with safe, quick passage from Point A -to- Point B.

Keeping you occupied for that time frame can be a challenge, but that's why we have video and audio entertainment. We also figure you will get hungry and need something to eat; we have always attempted to provide that meal in relaxed, but elegant atmosphere.

I would have to agree about the warm nuts. Keep in mind that the nuts on the transcontinental flights are boarded in a tin pan with a heat-resistant cover. On the CLE-SAN flight they may be boarded pre-dished up in the ramikens; therefore, preventing some F/A's from heating them up (the standard with our airline is only to warm those boarded in tin pans). I have often (time, staffing and load permitting) put them in the oven to be heated.

Further note: We do not have microwave ovens, we have convection ovens. We have chillers on B777 aircraft, but all other a/c rely on ice (dry/wet) to keep everything chilled.

I hope this is helpful in giving insight to what challenges we face when trying to provide you with our inflight service.

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CO757

Welcome and thank you for your input, CO757!
It is interesting and useful to get some information from an insider, I hope that we will be hearing more from you in the future.

Welcome CO 757.

We certainly appreciate your participation and perspectives here. Please do not confuse my disagreements with some of your points as a lack of appreciation for your contribution, but I do disagree.

Somehow, I feel there's a discrepancy between that statement and the marketing arm of CO. I wouldn't fly CO if the ads read "Safe, quick passage from Point A to Point B". I chose Continental because of the "congress of chefs", because of the "good flights not an issue", because of the "business first award winning service". As Matt/Nutz pointed out, If all I expected was basic transportation, I might choose Southwest, where my hopes would not be raised, and my expectations would be met.

To say "fly us because our award winning service is terriffic" and then when we ask why the service was not good the reply is "what do you expect, we've provided the transportation you requested so don't bug us", that's playing both sides of an issue.

Shareholder should be entitled to have his wine the way he wants it, if the winelist and service is advertized as a reason to fly CO. The meals should be better than "something to eat because we're hungry" if the food is advertized as a reason to fly CO.

I assure you, if you do away with the first/business cabin, make all the seats bigger, tell everyone that all their getting is a hot-dog and soda, and drop your prices to a third of where they are now, you'll have very happy passengers who won't complain about the wine. With a $5000 price for a round trip in business first, the goals of the FA's should be more than keeping the passengers "occupied" for the duration of the flight.

A hearty welcome, CO757!

I do hope to be hearing more from you in the future. I take it from your post that you're an FA with CO?

For what it's worth, you should consider that it's a sign of generally great service when the things we complain about are whether or not the nuts are warm, and whether or not we get to taste all of the wines.

The thing is, those of us who travel frequently on CO have come to recognize when the service hits that "perfect 10" and when it doesn't. That's because we've seen both types, often on the same routes. For example, I have flown more often on CO120 and CO125 than probably any other flights in the entire route system. I notice when things are different, such as when the nuts are served cold.

On the other hand, my worst CO experiences (since Bethune took over, anyway) are still better than my best NW experiences.

But NJDavid has a point (though his post is related in part to a recent unpleasant HNL-EWR flight). If CO decides to focus solely on getting passengers from A to B, then there truly is no difference between CO and NW. Why do I fly CO wherever I possibly can? Because the focus has been on getting me from A to B in the most comfortable, pleasant fashion possible at that altitude. That's the primary reason I choose CO...it's the service. Lord knows it's not easy to fly CO from SEA; UA, AS, NW, and DL all have more extensive schedules. With the possible exception of AS (where I end up having to compare apples to oranges), none of those airlines compare to CO in service.

Bottom line, I agree that the order of priorities always begins with getting me from A to B safely, followed closely by getting me there on time. But if the other priorities (comfort, quality, etc.) become nonpriorities à la NW, then I'll find someone else who does consider those to be on the list for my business. CO has thus far proven that it doesn't have to be a zero-sum game.

One more thing, before I forget. You should take a look at the Trip Report section. In it, we detail exactly what happens on the flights we take. I suspect you'll find it to be quite informative.

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Michael
OnePass Platinum

[This message has been edited by mweiss (edited 12-05-1999).]

Hi, CO757. Good to see you here.

You're right, Shareholder. I may not recognize the standard of a good club or restaurant. I would hope that CO will never stoop so low as to screen its pax based on income, good looks, fancy clothing, or who they know, the way so many of the "good" clubs and restaurants do.

When I fly FC or BizFirst, it's usually with upgrades - either Elite or paid with miles. Do I want CO to have to pay more to develop enough flying sommeliers to staff every flight? Hell, no.

But I'll tell you this: If I'm paying to be in the front cabin, it's because someone has decided that I need to spend that time working productively. If that's the case, I don't want to sit with an empty tray in front of me for even an extra 5 seconds while the F/A has to stand there watching you cup a glass of red wine in your hand to warm it before you swirl it around, bring it to your mouth, breathe the vapors, taste the wine, and spit the remnants.

If that's the level of service you want, I suggest you go to a 3-cabin airline, fly F, and leave the rest of us in the business class cabin. Until then, though, maybe you can help me with a question: when the utensils come all wrapped up in the napkin, how am I supposed to tell which is the correct teaspoon?

Thank you for welcoming me into this threaded conversation and group! I hope that I will provide you the "employee" perspective and further gain the "customers" perspective. I will always give you my honest opinions on our service, policy and/or procedures, whether I agree with them or not. I also request you that you do the same. If we come to a topic that we have opposing views, I hope we can agree to disagree.

FYI: I also post under the same name on TRIP.com's "Hot Talk". I will try to be consistent in my replys, and I know you will let me know when I'm not -that is if you also post on Hot Talk.

In addition to flying for CO, I work for a large ERP software vendor. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I actually wear both sets of shoes...yours and mine. I travel for my other company at least once a month, but that isn't nearly as much as many of you. Personally, I always try to keep your shoes in mind when I'm working as a crewmember.

Before I write another word, I want you to know on a flight from EWR-LAS today, I passed your "warm nuts" theory on to my fellow crewmembers. We were catered with the nuts in the ramiken. I told the F/A's about this post and based on that information they elected to warm the nuts. I was working in coach, but from what I could tell, the f/c customers were enjoying the service.


Regarding my earlier post. I want you to rest assured that Continental and the majority of its employees are committed to providing excellent inflight and ground services. In other words, our only interest is not just in getting you from Point A to Point B.

NJDavid's expectation isn't necessarily out of line, but when you have 24 customers served by 2 people (1 other person is in the galley), NJDavid's "needs" are part of all 23 other customers who want that individualized attention.

I don't know of any company that doesn't have a marketing/sales department that over promises and at times, under delivers. My perception and the marketing departments are truly in sync with each other. I just choose to tell you that part of the "copy" they leave out: We are a transportation company not a restaurant! Our primary responsiblity is to safely transport you and secondary to provide the amenities that make your trip special.

As a shareholder, I want to keep your business, but your expecations may be better served paying United $11,200.00 to fly you from New York to Tokyo in a true First Class Cabin. Our BusinessFirst product, and our company direction for that matter, is to serve the needs of the buisness traveler. The same trip, by the way (NYC to Tokyo), on us would be around half that amount ($5845.00) according to Travelocity.com.

Since BusinessFirst came to being, we have stopped comparing ourselves to any of our competiors First Classes. We are offering a premium business class service. Maybe it isn't that we aren't keeping our end of the contract, rather it is your expectations (first class service in a business class cabin) that are in need of review and adjustment.


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CO757

CO757,

Before you assume that our expectations are set wrong, you should read NJDavid's post at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum20/HTML/000551.html

In it, he describes an experience in coach that is actually worse than my coach experiences on NW. We're not talking BusinessFirst here. Nobody should be served an egg sandwich that is still frozen in the center. Even WN wouldn't do that, and they're an awful lot cheaper than anyone else. Plus, there's never any excuse for rude behavior.

In short, I don't think anyone on this board has expressed what I would consider to be unreasonable expectations. Nobody has demanded UA TransPacific First Class service. I experienced CO BF from EWR to DUB and back, and I was very pleased. You can read that trip report, too, if you'd like. It's at http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/000289.html

To be fair, you might also want to check out a comparison trip report I recently wrote between AA First class to Narita, and CO Business First back. I was a unique opportunity, but one that probably cost me the next level of elite on CO for next year. (My company's stupid desire to book everything on AA is also to blame.)
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum81/HTML/000478.html

Bottom line of this entire discussion is a scary trend we've just seen of customer service in the service industry getting scarce, and that legitimate complaints being discounted as people who expect too much.

And yes, I am pissed at customer care.....rightly. Round two coming up soon.



[This message has been edited by NJDavid (edited 12-06-1999).]

CO757

Welcome to flyertalk from another Platinum Elite. I think you will find us discussing items that are beneficial to everyone. To my knowledge, you are the first CO employee we have seen here and we are glad you are here. Several other airline threads have airline employees that post here and help us with our occasional problems. I have 107 segments on CO in 1999, and I can say, except for a couple of times in 1999, I have been very pleased with CO service. Keep serving the warm nuts and the service that goes with them.

Thank You

I want you all to know that it is going to take me awhile to adjust to this board.

I wanted to respond to NJDavid, but now I'm afraid my comments may appear to be to harsh. I don't want to alienate myself (at least not this early...<G> ) so until I can go back and read more of your posts and fimilarize myself with the electronic personalities on this board, I will drop my discussion on this topic.

I may try to re-visit it later. Thanks for the continued welcomes and I look forward to building a productive and effective relationship with you.

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CO757

Happy holidays to everyone. Thought I'd re-warm a cold thread http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

How have your nuts been this holiday season? Warm or cold? (The ones served on CO flights in FClass?)

Well, on CO flight 100 from SAN to EWR, when the FA filled our pre-flight drinks a second time, I told my wife to expect warm nuts http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif and lo and behold before the meal we could smell the nuts a' roastin (really). The nuts were not only warm, they were "hot" nuts. Service was exceptional.

How have your CO nuts been lately? I'm still getting about 50/50 warm nuts, these days.

(Please be of good cheer and no ba humbug EUA comments, or Santa may drop some cold nuts into your stocking; and to the person most likely to comment about this parenthetical comment itself, please grant me this one Christmas wish, and dont' http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif .) Just the nuts, please.

[This message has been edited by JeffLewis2 (edited 12-23-2000).]

All cold nuts here recently, unfortunately. I've still had some flights with what I consider great service (and some without), but no warm nuts http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif