I would take it a step further and say it's better than UA C, as it had to be, as it's the only premium cabin, as opposed to PMUA who had F also.
IME, BF has consistently been one of the best C products out there.

Not necessarily. There are a lot of airlines who have or had mediocre business class products in a 2-cabin configuration.


I would say it definitely had a good run. It was ahead of its time when introduced with better seats and better food than many competitors.

However, CO was also late to the game with flat seat deployment, so it started falling behind. While the catering side of the product remained above average, once the expected seat became flat, BF lagged the industry.

Even now, with the newest-generation business seats being staggered (a la NH or LX), you can make a case that the CO and UA style seats are already starting to become a bit dated.

With constant evolution it's difficult to be one of the best consistently. It's been a consistently solid product for sure (which I can't say about UA's product, given their long run with the manual barcalounger seats).

Fair point, though many of those simply eliminated (or don't have F). Others, such as CO, DL, and AC, tried to up their C to compensate for the lack of F. Whatever the case may be, I still believe BF to be a better product than UA C (though hopefully they will standardize with the best of both - what are the chances of that :p)

Agreed that they were revolutionary, and agreed that they were late to the game with lie-flats. They still have some of the better food and service, as well as FA to pax ratio.

For the current seat though, I'm not so sure. Looking at LH's new C, it looks great, though it's strikingly similar to CO's. I'd take CO's over 8 across on UA or BA (I really do prefer new BF seat to new CW seat). But the game constantly changes, as you rightly point out. First it was about lie-flats; then flat beds. Now, it looks like unrestricted aisle access is more and more the name of the game. Just see what AA is doing on their 77Ws. I don't see UA changing their seats anytime soon, but I expect next overhaul to include Y as well (on PMUA 744/763,) and a standardized C seat that will not be 8 across - either 2-2-2, 1-2-1, or staggered, a la LX, and a new F that will be a true differentiatior. At some point, they can no longer ignore AA, LH's new F, LX's new F, and BA. To argue that they really have F, it must stand out compared to C, and right now, it's pretty comparable to Envoy on US and EF on AC (though UA is still marginally better).

On the whole, I think CO's J is excellent. It is perhaps not right at the very pinnacle of perfection in every area, but it's still excellent.

The other thing to consider about CO J is the value. There are better J products out there, but they are invariably a lot more expensive.

On numerous occasions, I have flown TATL in CO J for just over $1,000. At that price, I can live with little quibbles.

I think that would be a perfect distinguishing feature!

BF= flat bed seat

B= big seat

That's rich. You need to get out more. :rolleyes: CX doesn't use the trolley in F because they really push the dine-when-you-want. But as mentioned, LH is an example of a top-notch F product (old seats excluded...) that uses the trolley to great effect. Notably for the appetizers, cheese and dessert. Just like...wait for it...Continental BusinessFirst.

http://i806.photobucket.com/albums/y...s/IMG_0245.jpghttp://i806.photobucket.com/albums/y...s/IMG_0049.jpg

It doesn't matter if it is or if it isn't. It's BusinessFirst. As in Business comes First. As in the product name starts with "Business". :rolleyes:

Did someone already suggest BusinessPlus?

Was CO the only airline running domestic First level service for short-haul international destinations in North and Central America? It was always so confusing that they marketed this as International Business Class when it really was domestic-level service.

What do carriers in Europe do for short-haul intra-Europe flights? How do they distinguish between "domestic" First and "international" Business and First?

I've been assured that this will NOT be the case.

Domestic flights don't happen in Europe like they do in America. Most carriers don't offer F or C on domestic itins. They differentiate between short-haul C and long-haul C, and long-haul C is occasionally accompanied with F.

And narrow body short/mid haul C intra-Europe is served by the same seats as Y, only the middle seat is left vacant. You almost always do get meal service though, versus a pack of snack mix on USA short haul "F" routes.

And lounge access. EuroBusiness customers typically get lounge access which is not the case with domestic F. I think AS is the only carrier who throws it in on paid or award F. UA/CO throw it in on PS only, and DL throws it in on JFK transcons/long-hauls.

True, but Y also gets meals usually, unless it's a *really* short flight. And alcoholic beverages, at least IME on BA, LY, LX, LH, IB, LO, and a couple of others, is free in Y. So the 2 (short-haul European flights versus domestic USA flights) are not really comparable.

No objections to UA upgrading UA C to BF standards. It was my experience though that BF has a better soft-product that UA F. (shocking I know)

I share the fear that the current UA F will adopt the BF service and PMCO BF will drop to UA C.

Didn't they announce on the earnings call that they expected F&B cost investments to rise going forward? That's a positive sign.

For me, a First Class seat on an international flight means that no matter where I sit in the F cabin, I don't have to step over a seat mate to use the lav at 3am. CO's BF experience for some may be the best business class experience in the world, but if I don't have direct aisle access, it isn't First Class.