Sounds like you don't COmpletely understand how the upgrade program works. It most definitely could be a trivial amount if the customer is on EWR-LAX as part of a COnnection, depending on how their fare class maps up.

I can't find a good example involving EWR-LAX, but I'm sure there is one out there. But here's one with EWR-PDX:

If you buy a U fare XXX-EWR-PDX (say DCA-EWR-PDX for $476 RT all in). As a Platinum, the lowest fare to COnfirm into F at time of booking in that market is more than $1,100 more (a B fare for $1,608 RT all in).

At checkin, it's possible that you will get offered a "fare difference buy-up" for your EWR-PDX segment for the difference between U and M on that segment. The difference between U and M on EWR-PDX is $130 RT, or $65 one way. So it's possible you'll get an upgrade offer for $65 on that one. Hence the 'tens of dollars' references we COntinue to hear.

There have even been examples of upgrade offers for less than $10.

Moderators are customers and get b:rolleyes:ned too.

Dont forget that Jethro and Ellie Mae + critters will both be in the middle ER seats too. Just pray Jethro doesnt take his boondockers off mid flight

Looking at IAH-DCA flights for Sun Jan 2, looks like CO has actually sold many F seats as F/Z. Less than 1/3 of the F seats are ups (Y/B/M/mileage).

F capacity for the day: 96 (7 total flights)

Number of F Seats booked: 78

Number of upgraded customers: 23 (Y/B/M ups and mileage)*

Number of F/Z sold: 55

Number of available unsold F: 18 (one flight still has 9)



* I do not think there have been any EUAs - IAH-DCA

So does look like CO is selling more than half the seats in paid F/Z.
I guess that is the reason CO is holding back 9 vacant F out of 16 on one flight.

Also 5 of the 7 flights are FULL in Economy. 2 flights still have available Economy. The one with 9 F available is sold out in Economy.

Y;)u may have seen zero impact, but that does not mean you've not been affected. I've seen plenty of cases where about an hour before flight time the upgrade standby list remains the same but the number of available F seats suddenly goes down. Why? Someone checked in at the kiosk and took CO up on a tens-of-dollars offer. Sure, someone could have walked up to the ticket counter and said, "Here's my pile of cash. Please give me an F seat on your next flight to <wherever>." That hardly ever happens, though.

The reality is that CO is offering these buy-ups and upgrades are being sold instead of being given away. As a shareholder, I'm all for that from a direct revenue standpoint. From a long term customer goodwill standpoint, giving away an upgrade for tens-of-dollars is about the worst thing you can do. Customers may not notice this kind of activity right away, but eventually they will notice.

Happened to me at 5min to boarding search Weasel :)

I haven't missed an upgrade for over 4 months, so I assure you, as of today, it still has not affected me at all.

I of course agree in principle that I'd rather have loads of unsold F seats get given to me for free, and it has been the Number One reason I have given CO my loyalty, as buying coach, and getting first class is wonderful. If (and only IF) you are right, and within a short period of time, upgrades vanish completely and mom and pop Kettle get them for less than 50 bucks etc, I will let my wallet do the talking, but sadly I think that this model is going to be taken up by all the legacy carriers, and thus there will not be anywhere better to go.

Like you, I am also a shareholder, and want to see a profit, I also understand the short term vs Long term risks, but the long term risk only comes into play if the other carriers don't do the same.

I've not seen much originality from the legacy carriers, anything they can do to squeeze out an extra dollar is matched by all, and I don't think this will be any different.

I am all for the principle - if you want to fly F -buy F - or buy up, but buy up to what it would have cost when you bought. CO tells you the price of F when you buy your coach ticket.

But I also believe that if you want F you should buy it when you buy your ticket - not take a risk. People that are buying up - made a decision to fly coach when they bought their ticket.

Telling you one price for the F ticket when you buy your ticket, versus changing the price when you checkin is going to train people to not buy F at time of ticket purchase.

When you put in place a loyalty program with benefits - you should not be changing the game, and offering someone who decided to fly coach a buy up of individual segments. It is well know that the price of ticket is not the sum of its segments.

Well, this, along with the fact that often the non elites are offered the buyups while the elites are not is really the main point of contention.

One of the things that bothers me is the lack of clear rules. It seems we are told one thing, but all of a sudden other things appear, then they amend the rules to allow their latest enhancement. The lack of a clear rule on this stuff is a lot of what festers the frustration.

In reverse, if you were the CEO, your job is to make money, and if you can turn a few thousand F seats per day that were originally going out for free into revenue (even at the small amounts) adds up x thousands of flights x 365 days etc.

As an elite, right now I am not seeing a better alternative. The main thing for most people is the carrier having a hub where you live. For those of us who fly 5-6 days per week, being able to fly nonstop to everywhere and back is HUGE. I would hate to connect on every flight just to maintain loyalty.

You could not pay me to fly DL or AA every day

I am on CO 1558 today (IAH-DCA). At 5 hours before flight time F was booked 9/16 with all 9 checked in. Coach was completely full with all seats assigned.

At 4.5 hour before checkin - the 7 F seats got booked (in F). There was no change in the list of those upgraded nor any change in the upgrade standby list. All 7 seats were checked in about the same time.

I just do not think CO would sell 7 F seats at 4.5 hours before flight time and all check in together. It could be a big group but I doubt it.

It is more likely that an agent rebooked people on a delayed flight. Coach all full the rest of the day and all that was available was 7 unsold F seats.

I asked at the PC in IAH and the red coat said - they would only rebook delayed passengers into Y or but them on the standby flight list. However, the agents said UA was booking people (from coach) into F for delayed flights.

So something is not right. I just do not see 7 F seats being sold at T-4.5 hours and none are buy ups to Y/B/M.

This is what happens when CO fails to process EUA at T-24 on a completely full flight with 7 open F. I will ask at the gate and assess the passengers who are sitting in the 7 seats that filled at T-24.

I had the opposite experience. My SO, a newly-minted silver, flew IAH-LAX this morning. F showed full but she scored a battlefield upgrade, they came and got her from her ELR seat. ^

hey try VDBing you might score unfortunately all too often CO low balls the $$ amount these days, but you never can tell

I assure you, you are in the very very small minority who has not been affected. All of my normal routes including the EWR-florida routes have been affected for me. Some more than others. EWR-PHX has dropped pretty significantly for me and when i do now get the upgrade its almost always a battlefield upgrade.

Completely agree, I suspect everybody will start this nickel and diming. Its all about the bottom line for good or bad.

I would be really interested in knowing how much money the buying of miles was worth to CO's bottom line this year. Originally I didnt think it would generate much revenue. Now im not so sure.

I am actually not too upset that they are holding SOME inventory back past the 5 day window. around 6-8 months ago they held back ZERO, so as a plat if I was buying tickets (or changing) a few days prior I could NEVER get upgraded, so no incentive to buy M fares, etc.

Then CO went overboard, and IMHO not only held back too many seats, but had some rediculous upgrade prices (I saw $19 at the kiosk personally once, and $39 from IAH-SFO).

It may not be in vouge right now, but I think CO is actually getting better (and close to getting it right). I usually dont see rediculously low buyups in the last few months, and SOMETIMES get upgrades 5 days out (and sometimes closer).

I think they are holding back a bit too much F inventory, and waiting too long to process. For example I recently upgraded my wife using miles and she easilly cleared (10 people below here on the list were also upgraded), however she had to wait until 45 min prior to the flight to checking without paying a checked bag fee (she hung out before security waiting on upgrades to process).

A little more fine tuning, and the drop in Elite levels after Feb, and they just might actually get this right (of course they have made lots of us angry along the way).

For my TPA-EWR flight on 12/28, I was on an M fare and was given the last F seat with a long waiting list behind me. I overheard the woman behind me talking to her seatmate and on the phone about how this was her "first time ever sitting in first class" and about how she "never flies so this is such a treat".

Must have been a similar situati:rolleyes:n.