CRAZY fare difference to LAX from NYC
 

Need to fly to LAX on 12/6 returning 12/8
Cheapest fare on CO: $1,136 plus tax
Cheapest fare on UA: $308 plus tax

Thats just nuts. God bless CO if they can get away with charging those prices for the worst transcon Y product in the sky.

Are you comparing EWR to JFK? Apparently CO thinks it doesn't need to charge low fares for mid-week trips on EWR-SFO/LAX. These flights are invariably busy, and I suspect that much of the traffic is connecting to / from EWR. The UA p.s. flights are much more O/D focused.

There are always going to be last minute business travelers who can't (or won't) make the trip over to JFK for these flights and take the EWR flights instead - I've had to do it myself a few times at $1,200+.

No dispute that the CO product on these flights is greatly inferior than the UA p.s. product.

I have been flying UA JFK PS transcons all year because of the price difference. JFK has a very competitive transcon situation (AA,DL,VX,B6) where fortress Newark does not. Plus the PS service is a very good product. ^


SunLover

I think you summed it up. Competition. It's like why does DL gouge for non-stops out of MSP to almost everywhere except PHX, DEN, MKE, and ORD; primarily because corporate MN will may for it and there's no competition.

I've done MSP-JFK-SFO numerous times for work (we use it as an excuse to prepare for meetings and we can usually get more work done in the air) and the DL transcon FA's are the best FC FA's in the DL network. I even mentioned it once to an FA how much better they were than their counterparts and was told "If we acted like an MSP or ATL based crew, everyone would fly AA or UA's p.s. and I wouldn't have a job."

CO's lackluster Y/transcon product is primarily due to lack of competition. We have an office in East Rutherford, NJ and the transcon flight length would qualify them for booking it in F/C, on ex-EWR, yet many of them go to JFK for UA or DL (and sometimes they can book AA) as they say the service improvement justifies the trek over to JFK.

This is exactly why I chose UA when I had to make the weekly LAX-NYC trip earlier this year. If you fly mid-week UA is always much cheaper ($200-300) v. CO (over $1000). On weekends you can get a decent CO fare to/from EWR.

I just booked a SAN-JFK-SAN BE on Delta for $1200 - the same itinerary was twice that on CO. This is 10 days out.

Nice! ^

Shame, they do not offer BE elite service on SAN-JFK, but it is the seat that matters!

CO doesn't consider EWR part of NYC, fare wise. They are playing to the corporations and pax who are NJ based, and are willing to pay more to fly out of EWR. Also there is NO COMPETITION what so ever for the non stops to the coast from EWR. VX tried to get in, unsuccessfully.

The lowest transcon fare from EWR usually $30 - $100 or more than the cheapest non stop transcon fare from JFK. If you are shopping for the cheapest coach fare, JFK will always be cheaper, because of the competition. VX, AA, DL and until recently, UA


However CO is seriously missing on on premium pax, who fly on contract/employer dime (NYC based), that allows business class 5 hours or >

From EWR
The domestic first (2 cabin) is usually $1500

Compared with JFK
Premium Business (3 cabin or DL Business Elite) is usually $2500 [ $1K more]

First Class (3 cabin) is usually $5600 [ though the studios pay much less to shuttle talent]


There is a reason why UA can make money having the plane 2/3's premium passengers. CO under Larry would never do that in a million years. I hope Jeff keeps it.

DL's Business Elite Service is JFK-LAX/SFO, in a 757 [ 2 cabin only ]

I've tired all of the transcon services

AA - Business - Basically a modified version of the old business class seats. First is roomier, but not fully flat sleeper. Wifi + media player 767 [ note AA's 767's are OLD and their FA's are ancient]. Power provided by ciggy adapter.

DL - Business only. The old song airplanes for the most part and the old business elite seats. The menu is an abbreviated version of the full INTL menu, wifi, avod, power

UA - Business - is the old UA business class seats, but with lots of legroom (more than AA or DL, imho), in leather. First is sleeper similar to the old skybed's used on SQ. wifi, media player, and power.


p.s is the nicest, imho. The 100 pax airplane is a big bonus, as well as the other nice touches.

Correct, but upon checking the SAN-JFK flights, you will see that DL is using the 75Es [ex-TWA birds] with business elite seats. But, since SAN-JFK is not covered in the transcontinental BusinessElite program, passengers on this flight will experience the standard DL domestic F service. That sucks, because ALL of the SAN-JFK flights are using the 75Es, but that is probably seasonal and in the summer those birds will probably return to their usual TATL missions.

Looking forward to try UA p.s. one day... Also I am waitlisted for an upgrade on a DL LAX-JFK flight, but highly doubt I will get it...

Not just transcons...planning a NYC-ORD trip in a couple weeks, UA is $230, CO is just under $1K. Off-peak days & times too. Yikes.

Misrepresenting the data here a bit, aren't we?

EWR is more expensive; LGA is less because of competition. For December 15-17 it is $230 to LGA ($212 on AA and $225 on DL) and $605 to EWR. Either CO or UA can issue the tickets on either route; it isn't that one carrier is more expensive than the other.

Please, please, please re-accuse me of "spreading misinformation", you're making a habit of it. Try 8th-10th, $230 on UA vs. $979 on CO. I'd say that's a pretty good case of "one being more expensive than the other".

Which specific flights are you choosing? I see plenty of $231 r/t fares from either CO or UA departing LGA and plenty of $605 fares on either CO or UA while departing EWR.

http://millerworks.smugmug.com/photo...39_Srx8Y-M.jpg

http://millerworks.smugmug.com/photo...21_UEJWR-M.jpg

And lest you suggest that it is always CO metal that is more expensive, the 4th from the bottom in that second image is operated by UA.

The issue is competition versus none, not who operates the flight. The EWR route has no competition while the LGA route (and JFK, if you're in to that sort of thing) does. That's what drives the pricing.

I'm sorry if my continued presentation of facts rather than hyperbole and emotion troubles you. But the facts are what they are.

What part of the EXACT dates and route I JUST supplied you can't you comprehend? 1. Go to CO.com. 2. Plug in ANY outbound CO flight from EWR-ORD on 12/8, and 3. ANY return on 12/10. 4. Your near-$1,000 fare is generated. Fly UA metal from LGA, it's in the low $200s. This is of course one data point, but it's backed up like many others (like the TOD upgrades that you deny)

Talk about hyperbole - I never once said "every CO flight is more expensive". If you haven't noticed, this is a thread that discusses CO treating EWR like it's own separate market and having fares to multiple markets that are 3-4x that of other airlines from LGA/JFK, even though, outside pax from say central NJ, all three airports are viable travel options.

Please stop twisting around my words to support your increasingly flawed arguments.