Has OnePass Gone To Hell In A Handbasket?
 

I've got to admit I'm very disappointed at the moment with Continental.

I'm Platinum elite... And I flew Panama to Newark -- no upgrade. That's fairly standard.

But then I flew Newark to San Fran and all 12 seats were SOLD OUT! I was offered to buy the seat for $149 a 2 days before take off. I'm assuming that 1st class was sold because they're basically selling the seats for pennies on the dollar.

Is there any value in being Platinum anymore? If things don't improve (in terms of getting upgrades) -- I'll be switching to Delta (my friend gets upgraded 90%+ of the time and he's only Silver).

What's your opinion? Have they killed the value of being Platinum by offering cheap 1st class seats?

What was your fare code? The $149 might have been the difference between your coach fare and a M fare for upgrade.

CO has changed the way it calculates the buy up to F. It used to be the whole one way - ie Panama to SFO via EWR. But now it computes by some formula each segment individually. It is likely it only allocated $149 for the fare difference between your fare and a buy up (not upgrade) to an M fare which is an instant upgrade for Plat. But there have been reported problems with this.

M up likely not available that soon to departure (2 days) since it is ewr-sfo. Also - the formula for calculation has been discussed as being faulty.

i agree with you. My assistant will be contacting you shortly with more information.

peace

mike_asia

Not for purchasing such 2 days out.

And which EWR-SFO flights are operated with a 73G (12 F seats)?? I thought they were all 738/739s these days.

I am at EWR waiting for a transcon flight. I just purchased the ticket last night so F was already full. But I just noticed that one seat in F opened. Then a little while later - the last F seat was taken and one of the empty seats was now occupied and the person that took it is in the upgrade list.

Now they may have bought up to an M fare or something like that - but with F having been full and one seat opening - CO is selling them to people that are now checking in at the counter.

This is my route. He surely meant 16 seats.

I know my EWR SFO schedule well in advance, and try to time the lowest fare, often $300, but alas a few in the $400 to $500 range as I've blown this game and fares only climb. I then plough all Plat miles back into upgrades, covering the most difficult legs. I'm 5 for 9 this year using miles and 9 for 12 on the easier legs I left uncovered.

This isn't entirely clairvoyance. For example, I cover all red eyes on principle. If it's blisteringly obvious a few days out that I'd clear anyway but CO still hasn't processed the upgrade, I take particular pleasure in pulling the miles back.

Anyone whose boss pays for the trip, but thinks the miles are exclusively for taking the spouse to Italy, is trying to have their cake and eat it too. Not the current climate, unfortunately.

Of course, I'd want to go with the spouse to Italy, and I absolutely have to pay for every single trip. Reward travel is not an option, as I'm guessing that 100k will soon (2012?) trump 75K EQMs in the upgrade pecking order.

For all the grumbling about EWR SFO, it's a very competitive, and competitively priced route. CO can't have optimized their business plan around me. As long as 15k is the flat fee for all domestic upgrades, making it attractive for CO to sell miles, it all comes together as a neat little closed system, on this route.

Am I drinking the COolaid? No, that's not what they serve in first.

You Still Here
 

Some of us were led to believe that both of you left the ballpark

I'm not really interested in the reason. Whether it's buy-ups, M-Ups, B-Ups, or their overall philosophy of low F fares so they can sell lots of them vs. selling fewer of them at a higher margin (UA model), it doesn't matter to me.

What does matter to me is how many upgrade I get. I'm over 90% as UA 1K, I'm just about 90% as DL Plat. Last year as CO, I came in at 33% as CO Plat but was able to strategically SDC to bring that up to 50%.

Clearly if upgrades is what I'm looking for, OnePass is not the right program for that. There are probably many in a similar situation.

I appreciate the poster's opinion that you could use miles to assist that. But that's not always necessary -- you can also fly another carrier.

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9630/5.0.0.591 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

If there is someone eligible the system will process the EUA in near real-time before offering it for sale.

You used to be so happy about real-time EUA. What happened?

Not trying to be unnecessarily contrarian, but evidence all over this board suggests that what you say is happening is simply not happening at all. Many EUA eligible customers have the seat sold from under their rear-end, it seems.

And to add one more datapoint...I'm flying on Monday very early in the morning on CO. As of right now, both legs are still showing 8+ seats for sale in F. As of this morning, we are already within the EUA window and so far, no EUA for me with 8+ seats left on each leg. I bet that I won't get an EUA as many now panic and either use miles or buyup online. Good for CO, but it clearly contradicts the claim of "unlimited free upgrades".

Not Consistant
 

They seem to be trying to iron out the issues

while Rev/Man is doing all they can to screw it up

Only time will tell who wins (I try to stay optimistic)

But AAEx your last statement is not correct

EUAs are working properly SOMETIMES

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9630/5.0.0.591 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)

EUA still depends on R inventory. M/B-ups come from a much less restricted bucket. So it is possible that the seat was sold to an M/B-up but that should not be the case and I'm not sure why the above scenario suggests it was.

When any passenger checks in the system will try to calculate what price, if any, to offer the upgrade at. This pricing exercise also evaluates the EUA list/inventory and the B/M-up list/inventory. If you are on a B fare as a platinum but still in the back then you should be upgraded before I ever get the fare difference quoted to me from my L fare up to a B that would similarly get me upgraded.

In the example that cova provided he's a last minute fare so below all other platinums in that same fare class to get the upgraded seat that opened up. Not much of a shock to me that someone else got it.

I do agree with channa that CO is not the best choice for folks who want upgrades on all their domestic flights. It has other things that make me continue to accrue points in the program and I get enough upgrades to not be too unhappy about it.

Realtime EUA is very nice, doing well for me, getting upgrades for tickets purchased within hours of the 24 hour point. Was concerned as I did not show up on upgrade list, but EUA came anyway :)

lest you feel like I only give CO a hard time, I did IAD-SFO on United, 14 seats left in F 1 day out, when I get to the airport I'm #8 with 6 seats left, at the gate #11. (it was a 777 so 36 F seats). I was not a happy camper. Apparently, IAD-SFO is pretty rough these days.

How noble and kind of you Sir...

ugh. Yeah upgrades are awesome and probly the best part of elite. But there are lots of other benefits.

And bottom line, CO is a business trying (TRYING!) to be profitable, if they can sell that seat sell it! keep the planes in the air so we can get where we need to go. Giving away seats that had other opportunites to sell is not a good business model. I don't think many of us run our businesses with the thought that are product has 7 days left on the shelf so we better just start giving it away rather than discounting it more and more as its shelf like expires.

A plane seat like a hotel room is one of the most pershable commodities round, so do all you need to to earn money when each opportunity presents itself.

I just dont get all this "why dont they give me free things and tell people who want to pay for them to go away" sentiment. I don't imagine lots of us are out there sending CO random checks for no reason, so we shouldn't expect them to do the same, and we should be happy to get the upgrade if it comes about. Or pay and buy the 1st class seat if its so important. or buy a high fare Y seat to increase your chances.

The whole upgrade game is a gamble, truly the more you bet (buyying YBM fares instead of TNL fares) the better your chances of the great award - but no guarantee!

And I love all the posts about "shenanigans" and "someone must have bought that last seat" you can never know. I was recently inbound from FRA to EWR and missed my connection due to late arrival. New flight the upgrade EWR-CLE showed 1st booked and checked in full. 24 people on upgrade list (i was nowhere on the list as I had not checked in for the flight). I rechecked bags, got new seat on new flight, and ended up getting upgraded 30 minutes before flight left. Case of my PLAT, my fare class being F or C trumped all those on the list and most lilely a checked in person missed connection or rebooked last mintue. I didn't even get priority for check in time T-24 since I was not checked in for that flight. So lots of the assumptions people bought out the seats are probably oftern cases like me. I've done this 2 or 3 times on delayed inbound TATL flights and always wonder how many people are behind staring at me with darts that I took their seat.

Is your assistant cute and single?

On almost any flight to/fro EWR these days, I have found, results in theblakefish sitting in the rear with the gear, ymmv. I guess ContiUniHound is prepping my posterior for days ahead... :(

They must be trying to acclimate our elites to the new Y seats :td:

but in all seriousness I am hitting all my upgrades except for an eq swap once so I don't know why some have "issues" with the EUA system...I do recognize that it does not work as published and is not transparent but as long as I get my EUA when I am privileged to it, I could care less.

PTY-EWR upgrades are pretty easy upgrades as a plat

Most who know both programs would tell you that if domestic upgrades matter to you, you'll do better on DL but accumulate miles that are nearly worthless. On CO the upgrade story is a pale shell of what it was even three or four years ago, but the miles are worth something. Pick your priority: upgrades or free trips.

It's the sequence of events, though, and the amount of F inventory left for EUA when this "real time" event happens, that diminishes one's chances. F buy-ups are cross-sold to customers from the day of booking to T-24 OLCI. There is IME not much left, often nothing, for EUA.

It's not that OnePass circa 2010 has "gone to hell in a handbasket" compared to other programs; I still choose this over DL. It's that OnePass 2010 sucks compared to OnePass 2000 or OnePass 2005. This is in line with the airlines' new strategy to do nothing they don't have to do. Nobody's trying to be best in class here.... just one tiny notch above the worst-in-class.

Are you sure? We keep discovering new aspects of this procedure. For example, the "buy-up sale" that you reported on. I do not think we have heard how that came about and how this "sale" works.

She is stunning, and her name is Dulcinea del Toboso... (which says a lot about miguel_far-east).

I largely agree with you. But CO is not a monopolist and have to look at what competitors are giving their elites. It is perfectly fine to say "I want (some) free upgrades, or I'll start flying with DL, where I can expect about 90% EUA".

Buy-ups generate revenue, but come at the expense of are devaluing elite benefits. A rational airline would raise revenue from this source to a point where the marginal revenue exactly offsets the marginal cost of buy-ups.

Cost includes (some) disgruntled elites that leave CO and other aspects. For instance, CO may see buy-ups generate lots of revenue, but the effect on the bottom line will be smaller, because buy-ups reduce the (EUA) incentive to purchase a higher fare.

It is not clear that offering buy-ups on the most "EUA competitive" routes, such as EWR-SFO, is a smart move.

• Platinums that fly frequently on EWR-SFO will have lower than average upgrade percentages, and appear to be more upset about the effect of buy-ups.
• Moreover, if the EUA percentages goes to zero on a route, where instant M-up and B-up are hard to come by, I cannot see any incentive to purchase anything but the cheapest fare.

I agree that there is a lot of speculation about such instances. But CO has not been very transparent about the mechanism by which buy-ups operate.
The discovery of the "buy-up sale" was particularly offending to some.

That's my point exactly. The system that exposes F seats to buy-up opportunities, the audience for those opportunities, the timing -- it's all a black box which makes EUA less and less real / credible. You can suggest CO is calibrating that extra revenue against the potential loss of elites with a fine hand, but I think they're going for the bird in the hand every time -- today's hundred bucks over lifetime customer value.

Here's to that hope ^

And here it is folks. We've now identified the job ranked more difficult than assistant to Lindsay Lohan.

Seriously, in 3 years, you're going to pay an extra $100 for a fare just because it says Continental? There are plenty of people here that are already willing to switch programs every year to maximize their benefits from the airlines and they aren't truly, "loyal," they're merely trying to maximize their benefit every year. Similarly, Continental is trying to run a for-profit airline and it has to put consistent profits above some vague claims about loyalty from people that are happy to become elites at another airline in 2 weeks if that airline will offer a status match.

I flew today on the 9am from EWR-SEA. It was not a real-time EUA. I was number 2 on the list out about 30 people on the standby Up list.

Around 7:30am this morning I checked and F was still full at 24, then it opened and then only 23 seats occupied in F. The person at the top of the list did not get the upgrade. Then about 20 minutes later, the 24th seat goes and it goes to someone who then takes seat 2F and they appear on the upgraded list.

So I do not think it was realtime EUA - I believe someone was offered the buy up when they checked in around 7:40am and they took it and got the seat. The person at the top of the list the night before and up to flight time did not get an upgrade. Somehow the other person that got it at 7:40am - got it.

Someone who was a higher priority than you and the other person already ahead of you checks in and gets the upgrade. Maybe EUA and maybe buy-up. We simply do not know. If they had the same status and fare but bought prior to you then they'd have priority for that seat.

Remember that the EUA priority is different from what you see on the screen or the PDA.



No need to call those claims vague just because you don't understand the value of those customers. You sound like you work for CO!

Many people are not interested in status matching (it's a pain to move over, especially mid-year, and splitting one's miles among multipe programs). This is especially true if you're a top-tier level that will not necessarily be matched by some carriers.

The bottom line is that at some point, people start looking around. If they used to get upgraded all of the time, that fell to most of the time, and now it's only some of the time, people start looking around or asking questions.

Just like if you're happy at your job most of the time, and that falls to some of the time, you might start looking around. Once you start looking, you might make a move.

That's the danger.

Perhaps you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I meant to say it looks like CO is more enthusiastic about taking today's here-and-now $100 from a random buy-up customer than in occasionally rewarding customers who do, indeed, spend $25, $50, $100 more per ticket all the time to fly on CO. The whole strategic intent of loyalty programs is to divert little, incremental bits of extra revenue to CO this way and prevent people like me from shopping on price alone.

If you're mainly in this for the upgrades, though, and you go through a whole year with only a couple -- a lot less than five years ago -- and you start to think CO is more interested in that $100 from the random guy than your whole LTV (lifetime customer value)... why, then you begin to think the emperor has no clothes. Maybe you could be having about the same flying experience on Southwest and saving hundreds of dollars. The value proposition kind of falls apart for many people, and they may just start booking the lowest-priced carrier, and in the long run this hurts CO and erodes their pricing power.

And once you shake off the reflex of looking / booking at CO first (or any airline for that matter), it's hard for the airline to get you back in that groove.

This is absolutely true and has been for several years now. If you can make top-tier AND you are not tied to CO's route/schedules then CO is not the best options for upgrades. It has been this way for a while. But not everyone is in it for the upgrades and there are a number of other aspects of the OnePass program that are better than competitors who focus more on upgrades.

Agreed -- I'm in it for relatively straightforward business class award redemption overseas. Had to choose this or DL after the CO/NW breakup (God, I miss the old arrangement... CO + NW + AS was just perfect for me, out here on the west coast)... and for redemption it was no contest, especially with *A.

I don't think status matters, I think I could still be offered an upgrade buy up without it. I've been a status match plat this year with CO and I fly international routes. I upgraded one flight a while back from Zurich to Newark for $300 and 20K one pass miles. I don't think I will do it again for a flight under 10 hours. The Delta BE product is hands down superior to CO from the type of seat to the quality of the FAs, food is about even. I haven't flown UA yet so I can't compare but people who do aren't very positive.

One last thing. Delta does a better job of thanking customers for their business. Always very nice on the DM line to be greeted with "how are you Mr. Delta First", I think it's always a nice touch. I hear UA customer service doesn't always have a good grasp of the English language, so I don't believe this aspect of the new UA will be any better than the service CO plats now receive.

I think Gold will be my final objective this year as I haven't been sold that CO or the new UA will do anything better. So I'll maintain Gold because in the end the President's Club and *A lounges aren't too bad. Recently renewed my Presidents Club membership. Cheers.

Status definitely matters for the free upgrades...

Buy-up to BF is completely different from the buy-ups to F on domestic flights.

Continental offers complementary unlimited upgrade to F on domestic flights... (which is being diluted by buy-ups). No such thing as a free upgrade on an international flight (as long as they have a seat in Y to put you in).

Will totally disagree on DL BE vs. CO BF. I find BF to be superior in hard and soft product - consistently; however, I will agree that DL does a better job thanking customers for their business.

To draw a bottom line under all this, the key aspect of CO OnePass program that was a given (Transparency), is now long gone.

The fact we have to consult such luminaries as sbm12 when we observe near indecipherable upgrading of pax, tells me that we have fallen back into the dark ages before pda.continental.com was up and running.

I feel like a lost sheep looking for my shepard. Ok, its not that bad, but you get what I'm saying :D

I never said I expected them to be free. What I said was is the CO BF product isn't worth the buy up in my estimation on flights less than 10 hours (arbitrary). If a plat can't count on a complementary upgrade on a domestic route (less heavily traveled one-pass) then what's the point of being in the program? It appears CO is toying with your loyalty so why stick around? My Delta people always complain about the high cost (miles) of reward travel which really isn't my priority. Domestically Delta is making an effort to place first class seats on CRJs. To be fare domestically I've only flown on CO from ORF to EWR which never has the option. Why do I fly *A? Because it makes sense on some of the routes I fly, better schedule and price. I'm new to one pass and will be the first one to admit I haven't seen the value of the program, it just feels like lip service.