FAs making up rules...
 

My last two trips have been with lead FAs who decided to make the final approach announcement - and enforce it - on their own terms, as opposed to waiting for the "double ding" and the illumination of the sterile cockpit light. Both FAs did so without any instruction from the captain to sit down early because of turbulence, and both - after I politely reminded them we were only on initial - told me, "I do final early." What's ironic is that the most recent one had the nerve to go on and on about how the company is "auditing" FAs on items such as cell phone usage, jumpseat occupancy, etc, and how we all needed to watch our asses, yet had no problem making up her own final approach procedures.

I have *zero* tolerance for this bullspit, and refuse to participate (I simply kept on as I were, and let them do the cabin check on their own. When the real final came, I then did mine). As much as I would love to write them up for this, it's extremely taboo, and I refuse to write any FA up for anything less than something that jeopardizes the safety of the crew/pax.

So, my question is - what are some rules you have witnessed FAs creating and/or improperly enforcing, and what have you done about it? I strongly encourage each of you to write in to CO any time you have an FA who does things on their own terms - remember, this thread is only regarding FARS and/or company policy.

What do you mean by "refuse to write up". I assume it is different from reporting the FA to CO, right? Or are you strongly encuraging everyone to do what you refuse to do? Sorry for the confusion.

Obviously, the OP is inflight crew. As such, writing up or reporting to management another FA for something short of putting the crew, plane, or passengers at risk is considered in very bad form and risks the on-board relationship with other crew.

However, there certainly has to be a way to report this departure from the book to an inflight supervisor who can remind these particular FAs that creating one's own rules is not acceptable and they need to get back on track.

That I understand.

In terms of adversely impacting crew relationship, I am not sure that a strong encouragement to report colleagues, is much different from reporting one yourself.

That being said. I like the OPs attude towards pax, and hope that he/she will be the lead FA going forward.

There must have been a good reason they did this, and I'm sorry they did not fill you in on that reason. After all, CO has the most professional men and women in the industry, so there is no way they would behave in this manner unless there were a valid reason.

+1.

Actually this may be to line up with UA's newest procedures. At UA sterile cockpit is at 18,000 feet.

OP is inflight crew. If this were done to be in compliance, they would have been briefed.

I've heard a few choice favourites, including

"please ensure that all items you brought onboard have been returned to your bags and are not in your hands or the seatback pocket"...I didn't appreciate having an FA tell me I had to put away a report that I was reading.

"all food and drinks, whether from the inflight service or brought onboard with you, must be thrown away as we come through the aisles"

"if you are sitting on a cushion or blanket, please remove it and place it on the floor or the seat next to you. This is for safety reasons to ensure that the seats can properly support you." (midweek TATL last year which was barely half-full)

Channa.

You crack me up. It turns out you and I see eye to eye on all this stuff. One day, I hope our paths cross and we can have a drink and laugh about all this nonsense.

On a more serious note, if I had a dollar for every time I've seen CO personnel make up their own rules on the fly, I would be a millionaire (exaggeration deliberate). I've seen it regarding upgrades, seating, service order, seatbelt enforcement on kids, etc, etc. They seem to be the FAs with the most latitude in the industry. If I fly AA, LH, AF or BA, there seems to be more consistency and discipline. That said, CO has generally very good FAs relative to the other major US airlines.

LukeSkywaiter is reaching out to the FT group asking for help.

channa, your response is predictable but not helping. :td:

On DEN to IAH yesterday the Captain made the "turning off the seatbelt sign" announcement and a couple minutes later the FA made her announcement including the "when the Captain turns off the seat-belt sign" part as if she hadn't heard his announcement. Seemed kind of funny at the time and once is an error, not a trend.

But on the same flight there were new edicts that I've not seen before - telling PAX to "turn off your Bose noise-cancelling headphones" - on both takeoff and landing, and well before final approach in the case of landing.

Reminded me of the militant AA approach to cell phones in contrast to the kinder, gentler CO style.

I'd agree that it seems there's some new pressure on the cabin crew and they're going above and beyond the call of duty. But it'll prove annoying if this is the "New Uptight CO FA" of the future.

Agree 100% on both points.

Several times over the years on LAX-IAH flights I've heard the final approach announcement made while we were in the vicinity of SAT (which I verified by looking out the window).

This did seem a bit early to me.....but I went ahead and ordered a cocktail anyway.

It looks like UA is going to 10k feet for sterile cockpit starting today. See posts in the 70s and later here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...cedures-2.html

Don't know how this relates to CO right now, but alignment will likely be coming.

This is the most common thing I encounter. If I'm told to stop work on my laptop or turn off my iPod above 10k, when there's no turbulence, I politely say that I'm wrapping stuff up and will have everything off at 10,000. More often than not they let it go at that because they have a sense that I know the rules, am observant, and am committing to abide by the rules.

Other times I get serious push-back and am told that I have to listen to them / am interfering / etc. I always comply because it's not worth anyone's time/trouble/or effort to fight over doing an extra five minutes of work.

There's other odd-ball ones that happen from time to time but they are generally just one-offs. 30 minute no standing rule into DCA (:rolleyes:). COCO pass riders taking 1B and then telling me it's "open seating" when it's obviously not (:rolleyes:).

Although, to be fair, I've had more "rogue" rules set-forth by UA GA's (not saying that to spite anyone, I'm being serious).

I had a FA on one of the Delta regionals that was absolutely adamant that nothing other than the SkyMall and inflight magazine could be in the seat-back pocket. This was a little Barbie Jet, but I've never experienced that on COEx or United's RJs.

AE FAs spout that fairly regularly, too. One went so far as to say water bottles could not be placed in seat pockets or the overhead bins, but must be placed on the floor.

My ANC-SEA FA the other day thanked everyone for flying with CO, a member of SkyTeam! Haha, this was last week. Im sure it was a tongue slip-up, but I thought it was funny nonetheless.

LOL...

There are still some rules in effect in and out of DCA which some FTers may/may not know about, but certainly not the no standing. The current rule regarding :30 is that if the seatbelt sign is illuminated, customers are to be directed to the rear lavatory if at all possible.

Yup. The last time this happened was on COCO out of EWR with a flight time of about 40 minutes. FA got on the horn after boarding had been completed and said something to the effect of "because we are flying into DCA Federal law prohibits anyone from standing during this flight. No lavatory. No overhead bin access. And there will be no service."

This was about a year ago.

This promptly drove my business over to the US/DL Shuttles (which are far more convenient than CO's operation) for the majority of my flights between the two cities.

I did notice the 'Bose Add On', which is interesting considering Southwest specifically let's you keep these on during all phases of flight. I guess the 'everything with an off switch' concept is perceived as easier to enforce.

I was on a EWR-LAX flight on Saturday, Sept 11th, where the FA thanked us for flying on behalf of CO & SkyTeam. (BTW, it was a CLE-based cabin crew)

Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto....sorry, I couldn't resist.

long live SkyTeam..rah rah!

Luke..I would assume CO would have a policy prohibiting reflecting on internal "goings on" in a negative light by posting in a public forum..why would you bring this to the table on FlyerTalk?

I had the same early landing announcements on my IAH-PHX flight a few weeks ago. As soon as we began our descent I was asked to turn off my iPod.

We landed 35 minutes later.

Again, why does everybody assume the FA is making up rules? Maybe the captain said they would be turbulence on the way down. Maybe they were supposed to land quicker, but got vectored around a bit. You really have no insight into it, yet everyone seems free to question the actions of the most professional men and women in the industry.

It's also possible that CO's superior service was so lavish, the crew needed a few extra minutes to put everything away. I think that's something reasonable we can afford them after having had the privilege of flying on the Rah! Rah!

^

Every now and then I catch a FA, GA, CSR, etc. going "offroading" when it comes to the rules but often find it's just easier to ask someone else, call back, etc.

Not trying to justify the behavior, but in CO's case I've been able to work around it. And to be fair, most of the issues I've come across have to do with RES where I know I'm right, but the agent just has not been able to grasp what I want to do. (Actually this happened earlier today when I was on a CC with the Plat desk with another FTer to cook up a rather complex award. First agent botched it but after hanging up and calling back I got an agent who'd sell in the flights I wanted and the thing magically priced out...but I digress.)

Getting back to FAs though -- lukeskywaiter I can certainly understand the issue of not wanting to write up fellow FAs, but perhaps there's some way you can send a discrete message to the powers that be (not sure if it's CO, the union, etc.) that they need to refocus on this...and who know, maybe posting on FT's enough to accomplish this.

The sad part is there those out there who'd adopt this ludicrous viewpoint and attack express it to others.

rotflmao!!!!!!!! ^ ^ ^

They did away with the 30 minute rule regarding DCA within a few years after 9/11. Or if they didn't, they quit telling people about it. Through '02-'03 it was definitely in force, but by the time I moved out of DC in '07, it was ancient history.

Such a proper place to make a post against your own co-worker's for doing final a little early. It's not that serious and it's people like you that make inconsequential things such as preparing a little early, over dramatic rants on a passenger forum. A few days ago the Captain never gave a PA nor did he give a double ding. We were busy doing paper work and thought we still had plenty of time until we heard the gear drop, should we have managed our time better? Sure but that is why we have those reminders. I could only imagine the stroke you would of had working that flight. Lighten up Lukey, there are more serious things going on in the world such as why do they want Wendy Williams to tone down herself and her hair weave. :rolleyes:

You know, it irritates us sometimes as well. Everyone makes mistakes (pilot forgetting announcement), but there are several times I have seen the final prep starting a good 30 minutes out, and it is really not needed to start it THAT early.

Of course not, but the sooner they do it, the sooner they can announce "this concludes the service portion of our flight today" and sit on the jumpseat kibbitzing about banalities. I find the lazier crews tend to try to start preparing the cabin earliest as it allows them to stop providing service.

This is correct my son. The sooner they can sit down the sooner they can start complaining.

Hey Lorenzo (que Mexican flamingo music and break out the fluffy shirt and maracas), would you rather me write lazy FAs up? Or vent about it here? Our job is incredibly easy, and we don't need to make it harder by making up our own rules. I'm not so much bothered by FAs who make the final announcement early, as I am by those who actually enforce it. It's embarrassing, and is extremely unprofessional. With authority comes responsibility, and certain FAs need to learn this.

No, it's not "serious" but for some of us who travel very heavily throughout the week, that extra 10-15 minutes is time that we can spend completing work. Some weeks I travel on approximately 8-10 flights and if each of those flights closed service and started doing final preps 10 minutes early, that's about 1 1/2 hours of lost productivity for me just to make the FA crews' jobs easier.

Just food for thought.

I'm clearly taking a page from mike_asia's book and just trying to get my post count up.

no problem honey.

Yes, the CO Gestapo/Office of Executive Communication will be very, very upset! @:-)

:rolleyes:

Very racist word to use.