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The mention of possible racial discrimination elevates this from simple complaint about service to a possible legal matter. In many companies, a customer service employee would not be allowed to respond to such complaints but would be required to refer them to the legal office. This may explain CO Customer Care's non-response.
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I have been accused of racial discrimination by a customer. I was accused of this because I had to gate check his bag because the overheads were full. He did not like the fact that his co-worker (a white man) was allowed to take his bag on but he (a non white man) wasn't. The co-worker was seated in the back of the plane and boarded first. The accusing customer was seated in the bulk head and did not want to take his bag to the back of the plane for stowage and therefore I had to gate check his bag.
WECARE2 sent me a letter requiring me to answer within 10 days. They do take this issue very seriously. With regards to delayed bags: The airline that takes you to your final destination is the one that is responsible for the delay and/or any compensation with regards to the bag being lost/damaged/delayed. |
Some of you have raised excellent points. I will address all the comments:
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
(Post 13008054)
I'm not sure you'll ever run into an airline that is perfect 100%, but good luck.
I really have a hard time believing a CO frontline agent would show the type of discrimination she's described. From your description, it looks like she was very late in boarding (in spite of the Elite Access privilege of boarding early when there's plenty of stowage space). Boarding early (or even in the middle of the process) would have avoided all this - big benefit of having "Gold Elite Access stamped across her boarding passes"
Originally Posted by worldwidetraveler
(Post 13009229)
I also find it hard to believe that the CO agent discriminated against the OP's wife just because she is from India.
Maybe she had previously created an issue with gate personnel concerning "alternate arrangements"? The OP has admitted that he has had previous issues with Customer Service in the past, so perhaps there exists a serious communication problem. Again it doesn't make sense that the GA would pick on the OP's wife because of her nationality, if the OP's story is true. She and I have traveled a lot...I have been a CO Elite for several years. And I don't recall facing discrimination any time in the past, certainly anything to remember or think about. Until you face it (as in this instance...and it did happen), you don't know it.
Originally Posted by KNRG
(Post 13009882)
I can't think of any good reason anyone at any job would be allowed by anyone they work with or even the next person in line to just skip a person. There has to be another reason.
Originally Posted by KNRG
(Post 13009882)
"Who's next?" Why didn't the wife respond? Why didn't thr wife step forward? why didn't the wife say "Sorry, i'm next in line.." We hear about that whole exchange between the next person in line and the agent.. so how the heck did the wife get bypassed?
Originally Posted by KNRG
(Post 13009882)
The reality of that situation seems to be that the wife, for whatever reason, was not stepping forward nor identifying herself. Was she on the phone? Did she not speak the language? Was she simply not paying attention?
Originally Posted by KNRG
(Post 13009882)
Then the bag issue.. she didn't have a laptop.. but she had 2 bags.. somehow. 1 laptop 1 personal item, no? Not two bags.. maybe i'm confused. Women are allowed to have a carryon and a purse.. it's really not CO's fault if she doesn't have a big enough purse, and how did they snatch it from her and yet she was able to get items out of it but forget certain things?
Originally Posted by KNRG
(Post 13009882)
It all sounds very contrived and full of holes.
Originally Posted by dweick
(Post 13010022)
First there is just a single small carry-on. Then ...
"take some items out of the carryon – and stuff in a now overfull small bag" So there was a single small carry-on and another single small bag which was being carried on the plane. That makes two carry-on's not a single carry-on.
Originally Posted by dweick
(Post 13010022)
"the agent there asked the Caucasian man BEHIND her"
How does an agent ask "who is next" to a particular person who is behind another person"? Why even ask the question if the intent was to serve the 2nd person in line?
Originally Posted by JohnWM
(Post 13010322)
I can certainly believe the situation described by the original poster.
I also find it perfectly believable that airline employees do indeed misbehave on the job, especially when they are so lightly supervised and even more lightly reprimanded. Go into any pizzeria, butcher shop, restaurant, or similar and notice that three men customers are standing on line. In walks a great set of C cups, and all the employees run over to ask "May I help you, Miss?" Believe me, it happens. |
Originally Posted by UA Fan
(Post 13010341)
so shouldn't your issue be with EK?
Originally Posted by carvalh2
(Post 13010374)
Exactly.
I was not there so I can't say she was discriminated against, but if she was made to feel that way, it is hurtful just the same. I love how people just "cannot believe" that someone would ever be discriminated against. If you think discrimination is dead after the election of Obama, you are delusional. I hear off color comments/jokes all the time, everywhere. And that type of behavior eventually leads to someone not treating a person the way they should, wether they meant to do it or not. What is the motivation for the OP to start this long and surely aggravating back and forth with We Care? Do people really think he would go through that kind of trouble so he could get some miles or some drink coupons?? I mean come on... When stuff like this happens, costumers need to complain, yell, and scream. Weather there was an actual act of discrimination becomes irrelevant if there is a perception. The airline business HAS to deal with customers of many different backgrounds, therefore it has a responsibility to train its employees to be patient and understanding of people that are black, white, brown, purple, american, indian, old, whatever. I can see why CO would not admit fault on a situation like this, since that could invite some litigious person to take advantage of the situation, but if the OP is reasonable, I am sure he would have been satisfied with some kind of apology, or some kind of assurance that they are committed to train employees to tread customers with respect, on top of some kind of peace offering. But if the OP is correct and they admit 0 fault, and offer nothing (apology, or whatever else), he has every right to be upset. The other thing I had hoped for (perhaps I am a little naive) that CO would do what other airlines do. Return the gate checked bags at the arrival gate rather than checking them all the way to the destination. There is no reason to withhold the bag for a 24 hour long journey just because of a full overhead on the first short leg. (1 hour from SAT-IAH)
Originally Posted by Stripe
(Post 13010680)
This boils down to three issues...
1. Lost baggage. CO does not fly to HYD so presumably it got transferred to another carrier within India. If CO checked its records and saw that the handoff was made properly then there is indeed nothing they can do. It does sound like they made some efforts to help you locate it. Verdict: No compensation due unless CO got it to India late.
Originally Posted by Stripe
(Post 13010680)
2. Forced to check a carryon. Was the first flight SAT-IAH and on a RJ perchance? They are sometimes pickier about hand luggage on those planes, for a reason. In any case, we'd have to know exactly how many bags she was carrying and how big they were. I have never seen them force a passenger to give up all carry-ons, which you seem imply took place here. Verdict: Dismissed for lack of evidence.
Originally Posted by Stripe
(Post 13010680)
3. Perceived discrimination. This is a very tough one to judge. I assume you weren't there and are relying on your wife's description of events. It sounds like the agent was snotty at best and your wife certainly was made to feel uncomfortable. I do have to ask: How well does she speak English? Could there have been misunderstandings on both sides? It doesn't excuse whatever boorish behavior the GA may have exhibited but it may help explain things. Discrimination is very difficult to prove in court even with witnesses. CO would have no basis to admit the agent discriminated, and wouldn't be foolish enough to do so in writing anyway. Verdict: Dismissed. No relevant statute.
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Originally Posted by Stripe
(Post 13010680)
Sorry to say I don't think CO owes you anything. But it wouldn't have hurt them to throw a few miles your way as a goodwill gesture.
Originally Posted by Stripe
(Post 13010680)
I do have to say that if I was the white guy standing behind her, saw her being mistreated and got called up instead, I would have insisted the GA take care of her first. Shame on him. There are plenty of obnoxious louts traveling who I enjoy seeing being taken down a peg by a GA or FA but I will not tolerate seeing an well mannered but obviously inexperienced traveler being pushed around by an airline employee.
Originally Posted by Stripe
(Post 13010680)
Finally, if you think by moving to NW/DL you have left frustrating and circular email exchanges behind, you can think again.
Originally Posted by star_world
(Post 13011686)
That's not even the case. The airline operating your final segment has full responsibility for your bag, including any compensation due and getting it delivered to you. Odd system but I've had it confirmed many times over the years.
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Originally Posted by JetAway
(Post 13011763)
The mention of possible racial discrimination elevates this from simple complaint about service to a possible legal matter. In many companies, a customer service employee would not be allowed to respond to such complaints but would be required to refer them to the legal office. This may explain CO Customer Care's non-response.
But I believe what you are saying is right. If I hadn't mentioned the word "discrimination", they probably would have admitted to making a mistake with the bag, offered an apology and some compensation. But since I did, they became defensive and admitted no guilt whatsoever in fear of legal action.
Originally Posted by sfogate
(Post 13012026)
I have been accused of racial discrimination by a customer. I was accused of this because I had to gate check his bag because the overheads were full. He did not like the fact that his co-worker (a white man) was allowed to take his bag on but he (a non white man) wasn't. The co-worker was seated in the back of the plane and boarded first. The accusing customer was seated in the bulk head and did not want to take his bag to the back of the plane for stowage and therefore I had to gate check his bag.
WECARE2 sent me a letter requiring me to answer within 10 days. They do take this issue very seriously. |
Whenever you deal with discrimination of any sort, whether real or perceived, there is only one POV that exists, yours. And there is only one thing that matters, your perception, whether that perception is or is not grounded in fact or reality.
A person being skipped over in line, having their only carry-on force checked in reality may or may not be based on a person acting in a discriminating way, but obviously the flier felt it was. So we shouldn't argue about whether it is or isn't, which at this time is irrelevant. What you should be asking yourself is how you want to approach the matter because you feel there is a valid complaint. And you did, you had an exchange with CO about the issue. So the reason for posting here is 1) to vent?, 2) raise awareness on what you believe to be an issue?, 3) seek advice on how to follow-up on your complaint? and probably any number of other reasons. I appreciate you sharing your story...there is nothing we at FT can do for you (unless of course we are CoInsider, which I am not). |
Originally Posted by JetAway
(Post 13011763)
This may explain CO Customer Care's non-response.
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Discrimination!
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Originally Posted by Stripe
(Post 13010680)
Was the first flight SAT-IAH and on a RJ perchance? They are sometimes pickier about hand luggage on those planes, for a reason.
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Originally Posted by CObigtimefan
(Post 13016801)
I bet that's what it was... they gate checked it, and she didn't realize it. Walked off the plane without it...
The other thing I had hoped for (perhaps I am a little naive) that CO would do what other airlines do. Return the gate checked bags at the arrival gate rather than checking them all the way to the destination. There is no reason to withhold the bag for a 24 hour long journey just because of a full overhead on the first short leg. (1 hour from SAT-IAH) Finally, the OP mentioned that "the flight was full and the overhead bins were full". This does not sound like ANY RJ flight that I've ever been on. I am frankly amazed at how defensive people can get toward our fellow passengers! CO either has a fantastic following here drinking some powerful Kool-Aid or it's the "white wall of silence". :) But in reference to discrimination, I'd vote for sex bias being to top reason if there was discrimination. It's well known that well-dressed men are more likely to get preferential treatment on all airlines (not by everyone, just on a probabilistic basis). Another possibility is that the agent simply made a stupid mistake and actually thought the guy was ahead of your wife and wanted to demonstrate his or her power over the situation. But even in that case, it's about sensitivity - if you're going to exert power over someone in a situation where race is involved, you're going to get your company or municipality involved in charges of discrimination and that's generally a bad thing. I think we can all recall an incident earlier in the year that fits that category... Anyway, my exhortation to the OP is not let your feet do your talking. I have not found CO to be systematically discriminatory and although I don't know their training program, I have observed that their staff is indiscriminately either friendly or surly. :) |
Why I left Continental
I can fly CO and pay about $70 to $100 more on the routes I fly versus AA;
I can fly CO and pay more on RJs versus flying AA in MD80s; I can fly CO and pay for the standby option, or I can fly AA and get free standby and keep my F upgrade; I can fly CO and get 4 SUW on 120 segments or I can fly AA and get 8 SWU on AA for 100 segments; I can fly 90 segments on CO and make top tier on CO and compete for upgrages with UA GS, UA 1K, UA PremierExecs, and CO PLATS or I can fly 100 segments on AA and compete for upgrades with other AA EXPs for upgrades; I can fly US and use their reduced mile redemption rates on *A flights including CO and I can use their mileage buy up options and get another discounted Biz ticket on *A flight. |
YesLetsDiscuss... Grow Up, Get Over It and Move On. I'm sorry it happened to you, I can't imagine a big company like CO would intentially discriminate against you-- so don't dwell on it. Life Happens, X...hit Happens, Life Goes On.
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Why dismiss such claims of discrimination so quickly? Over the last 12 years of flying CO I've personally watched CO gate agents discriminate against flyers twice, and a check-in agent discriminate against a pax once. Now before some smart ... asks me "Why fly CO?" well, they have never done it to me (though that is a weak reason), with a few stand-out exceptions there service for me has been great, and while stateside for me and where I need to go they have the most non-stops (and I'll normally pay a premium for a non-stop as my time is valuable).
Anyway, Why would it be so hard to believe that happened? I can believe it happened, especially in SAT where I witnessed one act of blatent racism by GA back in 2004-And I know it was racism because I heard the GA's discussion with a likeminded GA after the flight boarded. Ciao, FH |
No comment on the discrimination issues, but is it possible that a gate agent might gate-check a carry-on due to a full SAT-IAH flight, so the carry-on is available to be picked up at the gate in IAH, but a passenger might reasonably interpret “we'll check your bag” as checking it through (interline to HYD in this case)?
Then there might be a forlorn bag sitting at a gate in IAH until someone figures out where it belongs, which could explain the four-day delay for that bag. |
Why I am going to leave CO in 2010...
Originally Posted by docr775
(Post 13021261)
I can fly CO and pay about $70 to $100 more on the routes I fly versus AA;
I can fly CO and pay more on RJs versus flying AA in MD80s; I can fly CO and pay for the standby option, or I can fly AA and get free standby and keep my F upgrade; I can fly CO and get 4 SUW on 120 segments or I can fly AA and get 8 SWU on AA for 100 segments; I can fly 90 segments on CO and make top tier on CO and compete for upgrages with UA GS, UA 1K, UA PremierExecs, and CO PLATS or I can fly 100 segments on AA and compete for upgrades with other AA EXPs for upgrades; I can fly US and use their reduced mile redemption rates on *A flights including CO and I can use their mileage buy up options and get another discounted Biz ticket on *A flight. I am leaving because I am sick and tired of receiving uncaring and sub-par service on BF flights on CO to Asia ( where I travel to the most ) : It's not a single or random acts of negligence, but rude behaviors of their senior FAs : hate to bore you folks with my unhappy anecdotes but really need to point out some outlandish behaviors of theirs. -- I was awake and watching the IFE when the asian female FA was doing the hot towel service. She walked right by me without giving me the hot oshibori. When she walked past me to do the pick up, I asked nicely for mine. Instead of saying : " Oops, sorry, I'll be right back " , she spent so much negative energy to tell me : " you would have to wait till I finish the pick up service". -- I was in the bulkhead row of BF on the 772. The female FA almost stepped on my feet serving my travel companion sitting in the A window seat. All during the meal services, I had to point my toes inward, towards themselves, else, she would step with on my feet. And to make it worst, that was her last flight after 25 yrs of service. Sad, sad flight to end a career. -- Flight was late leaving NRT because of weather. When we boarded the plane, you should have seen the harrassed looks on most of the FAs. And then a senior female FA walked down the aisle from the galley to offer chocolate to her son and a teenager. And then a 10 mins argument between the Japanese GAs and that FA, about what flight her son and the kid were listed on...and it was the non rev adult ( the son ) who was arguing so loud that almost all the heads turned to see what was happening. And on that same flight, over the other aisle, I heard a male FA asking some pax in the row in front about newspapers, and then he repeated the same question louder and louder, to the point almost yelling at the pax : turned out to be that was an elderly Japanese lady. And since the flight was leaving so late, I asked for the Executive meal option, and they totally forgot it. --Don't you folks notice how ungraciously they set your table as CO requires them to do ? they flop the table cloth on, put the salt/pepper shakers, the bread plate and water glass as if you are transparent and they don't even see you ? -- YES, I've had decent service in BF flights. But nothing outstanding that leave me grateful for their service or consider them to be above and beyond what were required of them. I have worked for a major airline for 10 years, and I was lucky enough to quit the industry and punch my own time card. I live by the credo of respecting others while they provide service to you, and ASK for service. And as most of you folks here have to agree : the domestic, less senior FAs give better service than those jaded senior FAs flying internationally. For those of you who want to tell me to go fly some other airlines : well, YES I will. I have qualified as 1K on UA already. I will walk with my feet over to UA, AA and CX. And I will fly CO as little as I could. Just my 2 cents. And believe me, I have flown enough F and C, to know the difference between good and bad, bad and unacceptable. Xmas Gringe. :p |
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