My point exactly.

From the beginning, the global alliances were, and still are, Europe-centered marketing relationships. European legacy airlines were the prime movers in setting up global alliances, and each of the alliances has placed the establishment of TATL joint ventures as a top priority for the near term. The glaring weaknesses of oneworld's "periphery" approach are twofold: 1) the alliance has failed to secure members that can effectively cover Europe's eastern and southerneastern "periphery"; and 2) it leave the alliance wholly uncompetitive in targeting the growing traffic flows from much of the continent to points south (Africa) and east (Asia, except HKG/NRT) because the proposition of going out of the way to LHR or MAD (HEL is too small of a hub to make a difference either way) simply isn't attractive to flyers who can get better schedules from better-placed Star Alliance and SkyTeam hubs.

I was trying to book an award trip in business from YYZ to MAD.
It is available on ANA too but Co.com can't see it......
If Continental want to participate in blocking, I will no longer credit my miles to Co.
Since both airlines want to play *net blocking, I will choose the one give me SWUs.

Did you call CO?

It's only effectively blocked if a CO phone rep can't give it to you.

Let me call them and let you know.

If you've already subscribed to the *Net blocking, you may just want to go ahead and leave.

There are plenty of examples of where people are not seeing blocking and the instances where people are having issues with availability is not blocking, but other variables at play.

I'm realizing the ANA tool is causing more issues than benefits at this point as everyone believes it is gospel. Folks, it is possible for anything to give you bad results. Prior to CO, prior to UA's starnet blocking, there were a few times when ANA would say something was available and UA and BD couldn't see it. Things happen and to assume that CO is blocking due to a single data point is very short-sighted.

I understand your frustration. It is a shame that we cannot have some sort of huge statement that flashes when somebody enters the CO forum reminding them that CO at present is NOT STARnet Filtering.

The worst thing that United ever did was start this STARnet Blocking (the actual term is Filtering) stuff, and now that CO and UA have cozied up to each other, everybody is screaming BLOCKING BLOCKING BLOCKING, CO is STARnet BLOCKING.

One last time, CO is NOT, I repeat NOT, STARnet Filtering (Blocking) awards at the present time.

Dan

Have you read the thread? There are multiple data points on this very thread, so how can you continue to dismiss the concern?

Not saying CO is StarNet blocking, or doing any sort of deliberate blocking, but the net effect is much the same. Flights are available, but not bookable with CO miles.

Call it tech issues, agent training, blocking, doesn't really matter. We saw the same problem in the SkyTeam, pre-Star days with CO. It may not programmatic like UA's StarNet blocking, it may or may not even be deliberate. Even if you take issue with the term "blocking," we can call it something else. They're certainly obstructing one's ability to book partner awards, regardless of what you want to call it.

Channa, I think the difference, and it is tangible, is that blocking is a deliberate act to prevent something from occuring, while if you want to call ineptitude or poor infrastructure is more a problem that can be corrected.

Dan

I'm in the process of booking a rather complex itinerary next summer utilizing all sorts of crazy routings. Over the past couple of days I've spoken with very professional, polite, and helpful CO agents who have been working very hard to book this trip for me.

The agents I've spoken with have both told me that they are "learning as they're doing" when it comes to :-: award reservations. I've provided some helpful routing suggestions and have been able to cobble together a pretty fantastic trip.

When I called yesterday I knew there was availability on certain flights I wanted (using the ANA tool) but the agent couldn't get them to show up. This morning, the agent I spoke with was able to snag them, and helped clean up my res. a little.

I'm not taking anything away from the agent I worked with yesterday. She was a complete gem. But, as she told me, it's not the easiest system to learn, but they are getting better every day. Have patience with the folks at CO and if you're not getting what you know should be available, call back and try again. From what I can tell, there is no Starnet blocking (or an equivalent), it's simply agents needing some time to get up to speed.

Dan, agreed. But as I mentioned before, this has been going on pre-Star, and for years, so I'm not sure about the motivation in correcting it. I'm hoping they do, and do so quickly, but I've been a victim of similar types of issues for years.

For example, with AS flights in the past, CO was aware of the issue for two years, and the issue continued until the final day with AS. In some instances, every AS flight was not being displayed. At other times, some AS flights weren't showing. This is exactly what the posters are experiencing right now, but with other carriers.

At some point the issue goes from honest mistake to deliberate obstruction. The agents don't see the stuff, and the agents don't offer manual sells (you have to know to tell them this). Is CO taking reasonable steps to avoid the issue -- e.g., sending out daily or weekly updates to agents advising them to try manual sells since they're having display issues? Posting a customer notice that some flights or carriers are currently not bookable due to xyz issue, and to try back in a few days?

So I guess the question is where the line between honest mistake, and not taking reasonable steps to correct an issue. Normally, I'd be more likely to agree with the "they're new to *A" contingent and cut them some slack (heck, I work in IT, I know how this interconnection stuff can be). But since I struggled and had to educate agents for years in how to book DL or AS flights (and not all were receptive, mind you, my redial button is very well worn ;) ) without improvement, I'm tending to lump these issues in with my prior experience.

Let me be clear, to a great degree I agree with you. This is a problem that has been going on for a long time and really needs to be fixed.

With regards to manual (long sells), in the past agents have been generally unwilling to long sell segments, but lately they have been doing it more agreeable and on two recent occasions without any prompting on my part.

However, in general you are right,
Dan

I called.
It doesn't show online but the phone agent can see it.
I think they are doing something about CO.COM.

I am curious, why does LX have its own system? It's a part of the Lufthansa group and of all the airline should be the most integrated? Or do I not understand this group at all?

I actually think DL is the worst at this behavior, even on the phone. When booking an award ticket, if Delta didn't show up, they would simply tell you nothing is available. You had to proactively ask them if a partner award was available. Then they would say we would tell you if it was, automatically. But what do you know, when you asked them to search manually there it is.

They have as much of the backoffice as possible running as a single company but the individual brands still make individual decisions on some things. Here's a movie of the LH CEO explaining it in more detail during the *A Mega Do: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlpKahJUYlk.

My guess is that LX will migrate over eventually, but it isn't something where you just show up and throw a switch. As US/HP about how well that went for them.