Can someone remind me about what this loophole is? Since it's clear that CO isn't going to upgrade me in advance, I want to do what I can to at least have a chance of getting an upgrade at OLCI or at the gate.

And I thought that being platinum actually meant something as far as upgrades are concerned...

The loophole was that you could check in at T-24 and IF - a big variable - IF a seat in R inventory was available at that time you would get it immediately rather than it going into the queue.

It was closed around April, IIRC.

The loophole depended on the inventory being open at the time you clicked on the button. Sure, that happened every now and then but really not to a level that I think was significant, not the least of which because CO pretty much stopped having that inventory out there.

It has to do with how CO's system processes upgrades.

When an elite customer who has not yet been upgraded checks in via a self-service option there's a prompt along the lines of, "would you like to upgrade if a seat is available?"

Clicking yes, as most people do, tells the computer to see if there's an open upgradable seat (I think it's R class currently) - and if one exists - the customer is then upgraded into it. The flaw is that no consideration is given to other customers who might have a higher standing on the elite list.

Here's a true example from my days as a silver: I was flying EFD-IAH-PDX back when the check-in window was 30hours from the first flight. So 30h before my EFD flight I went to co.com, ran the checkin sequence, selected yes to the upgrade question and because a R seat was open, I was upgraded on the spot to F (and to the last F seat on the flight, IIRC.) Anyways because the computer blindly upgrades any elite member upon checkin in, assuming upgradable space exists, it becomes possible for customers to unwittingly circumvent the published order for upgrades.

We can't be sure it was statistically insignificant? And it didn't happen only at T-24, it happened whenever upgrade seats were released but before EUA ran. It could happen at any time during the checkin window. The next Silver could have snagged a seat even if that Silver should never have had a chance.

We had been impacted by it a handful of times, and frankly it's difficult to catch. You really have to watch like a hawk to have an idea you'd been a victim and/or to take advantage. So I'd wager that given how few upgrades CO issues via EUA, this played a part much more significantly than it was talked about. Remember in competitive markets if they're upgrading only 2-3 people per flight, if they botch just one of these, that's a 33% - 50% failure rate. Not exaclty statistically insignificant in my book.

This is not much different from the upgrade shenanigans done by some rogue GAs. For every instance we catch, there are dozens of instances that go unnoticed.

If CO wanted to fix all of this, they'd dump EUA and go to an upgrade request/waitlist approach. This EUA sweep is what causes a lot of the issues.

In fairness, this loophole is now closed. It just took them many years to do it.

:rolleyes:

Statistics are fun, aren't they? You're talking about ~20 flights/day and potentially 20 affected customers, and that is assuming that all of those flights were hit with the loophole. But you're ignoring the few hundred other daily flights and thousands of other EUA passengrs who aren't affected. Yes, I believe 20/2000 is statistically insignificant, and I'm willing to bet that the number isn't even close to that high on a daily basis, though we'll never actually see the real stats from CO.

Wow...that's a jump off the deep end. How are you dealing with the fact that your beloved UA is switching to a EUA program?

The problem wasn't the sweeps, it was the way they managed the "do you want to upgrade if available?" requests. Back in the days prior to EUA when those prompts started they just processed the requests as they came in. They stopped processing them that way everywhere except for in OLCI. And they finally got the systems fixed to plug the hole in OLCI, too.

EUA isn't the problem.

EUA sweeps are the problem, not unlimited upgrades.

Part of the issue was offering the checkin upgrade. However, had CO not been doing sweeps and instead been clearing upgrades as space became available (waitlist approach), then the upgrade at checkin offer could have remained, since all eligible customers would have already been upgraded.

There's a big difference between sweep methodology (EUA) and waitlist methodology for processing unconfirmed upgrades. I don't think UA would be foolish enough to do a sweep mechanism like CO. They'd probably adapt their existing system to auto-request upgrades for all Elites, and then they'd hop on a waitlist if the upgrade is not available.

The fundamental problem with the sweep methodology is that your upgrade doesn't clear unless 1) the space is there; and 2) the sweep (EUA) runs. Why do we need the sweep? If the space is there, clear it already.

Presently if you have an upgrade request and are within your window but are unable to clear, UA puts you on a waitlist. If space becomes available, the waitlist starts clearing. CO would not clear you the moment the upgrade space opens up. You have to wait for "EUA to run."

Because CO uses the same bucket to sell upgrades as they do to give them away. And they are very much trying to sell them.
Tell that to someone who waitlists with miles and clears in advance. Yes, the EUAs are sweeps but not everything is, including the "requested" upgrades.

The problem was that CO had a hole by which one could skip to the front of the line. They eventually patched it. Clearly it wasn't happening enough for it to destroy the integrity of the program or they would've gotten around to fixing it more quickly.

There have to be sweeps of some sort because of the windows for the different elite levels. And since that is the basis of the EUA (and EUA) scheme, I'm guessing that they will stick around.

I agree...but the extremely painful part is that they are not offering me, a Plat Elite on the EUA list, an offer to do a buy up but are offering this option to non elites.

CO, if you want to make some additional money try that out...its my choice to gamble on the EUA or pay the buy up like the non elites are being offered, but maybe offer it to elites at 2-3 days out. You could do the same with E-/E+ upgrades on UA codeshares.....

I think I am describing this right....

On some EWR-SFO and EWR-SAT flights over the past three months or so, I have been able to score F mileage upgrades (assuming F availability) about 3 days before the flight. As a sliver, i jumped at the chances to assure FC.

Isn't this also taking away from the EUA process?

I will get to Gold this year and the best thing I am looking forward to is being able to select exit row at time of booking.

I suppose it's a matter of definition, but if we're discussing "competitive" markets, I would include at least all transcons (LAX, SFO, SAN, SNA, SEA, PDX).

Then I would add IAH-EWR, IAH-CLE and EWR-CLE, as well as EWR-LAS, IAH-LAS, and CLE-LAS

The fact is there are other competitive markets, but right there you're looking at +-136 flights a day.

Then, you need to account for the fact that out of your 2,000 daily domestic departures, approximately half are operated by regional partners, on which--of course--there is no premium cabin and thus no EUA.

Now, you're looking at 136 out of about 1,000 flights a day, or 13% of the daily domestic mainline network.

Thirteen percent is not statisitcally insignificant, especially since we could easily classify other routes as competitive.

Again, UA has upgrade windows yet does not have sweeps.

If you request your upgrade before your window, it's just a request. Once the window comes, you either clear or hop on a waitlist. If it goes to waitlist, once the space opens up, you clear. No sweep needed.

I suspect UA will just auto-request every Elite's upgrade, and it will work as it's been working. Why change something if it's not broke?

The business rule is that if there's upgrade space and you're within your window, you get it. UA's technology matches that business rule. CO's does not. On CO, you need to be within your window, and have upgrade space, and the EUA has to get around to that particular flight, and have nobody with a busted record ahead of choking it, and so on.

Hillbilly, I use to think the fare difference buy ups are not offer to elites too, but as my example shows, the fare difference upgrade most certainly is since I am a plat.

In my case, my fare plus buy up fee actually cost less than my brothers higher fare yet I managed to get a first class seat while he sat in coach. This time it worked out well for me, but in the future, if I am #1 on the upgrade list, i'm not sure if I should pay up or roll the dice with EUA. This uncertainty is very unsettling.

Its probably the dang CLE-EWR-CLE curse since that is all I fly...there are no buy ups maybe.

Actually I was suggesting that we simply discuss the entire system. Measuring a specific route and extrapolating that out to reflect the entire company's operations is just silly. I think that it actually makes sense to consider the entire company, not just the route(s) that any one of us think might be important on any given day.

The suggestion that anywhere close to 13% of the flights on a given day were affected by the OLCI upgrade loophole is preposterous. Simply laughable. There's no way.

You're talking about two different things. If you request a miles or certificate upgrade from CO then it clears when the inventory opens up. Just like on UA. The EUA is a different beast and operates as such. We'll have to see how EUAs play out.