The closing of community threads
 

Why, might I ask, are we as a community, not permitted to express our concern about missing members of our community?

In closing the most recent "doc" inquiry, Randy writes:

????? To my knowledge there are exactly zero open threads wherein one can ask and answer this question. It is obviously a concern to the great many people who have asked after doc and one could surmise are bothered by too many threads about the same topic being closed.

If the real concern is that certain people with poor manners may feel the uncontrollable urge to make a personal attack upon doc every time they see his name, would it not be eminently more sensible to simply edit out those offensive posts and leave the thread in tact?

In the same vein, could we please have a clear definition of what is and what is not of valid concern to our community. IMHO, anything that we desire to share with one another as a community is appropriate but apparently the powers that be have decided that we have restrictions on our discussions which are unfortunately rather vague and undefined.

Why for instance was the favorite movie thread closed while the obit of a steakhouse owner is ok? I am not judging here, just trying to clarify my understanding.

Thank you, Punki

[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-22-2002).]

Great thread, Punki. I couldn't agree more. But, I must advise you to be careful of what you post, cause' unless you are one of those special members around here, you just may get busted.

I apparently got my time-out because I was charged (& convicted) of spreading 'rumours' about doc. (????)

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

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Gaucho100K

Punki,

I think the favorite movie thread was moved. I remember seeing it somewhere else...but cannot remember where.
As far as the Doc thread. I wondered the same thing because there are no unlocked threads out there about Doc.
However, I am not going to question it. Maybe it was closed because eventually it would have had a nasty comment in there from someone. Maybe They did not realize that all the previous threads about Doc had been closed?

How many times do we have to ask where DOC is? It was answered once... and again, and again... and then the thread starting going south in nastiness...

We do not ask about every person that chooses to stop posting for awhile... and it is obvious that asking about DOC will just start the naysayers again...

Once the question has been answered, does it really need to be asked over and over again?

{SIGH}

William

Omni

Again, as always, wharvey posts with the voice of reason. Amen.

Of course it doesn't "need" to. But that won't stop some..... Sigh indeed.

Thank you Wharvey for your concern that it is possible that threads regrding doc, might possibly go south. It is, however, within the realm of possibility that any thread might go south and, if we just start shutting down every thread, just because there is a possibility that it might go south, without any definable standards and guidelines, pretty soon we couldn't have a bulletin board at all any more. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

Is there some reason that my suggested cure for poor manners and nastiness, as suggested above:

wouldn't work better than the random closing of threads?

The community has long sought moderation, Randy has set moderation as one of his primary goals, many intelligent and well reasoned Flyer Talk members have volunteered for moderation duties, and months ago, I know for a fact that Blonde Bomber proposed to the Talk Board an excellent set of moderation guidelines. Is there something preventing the implementation of real moderation?

IMHO, FlyerTalk would be a much more welcoming, involving cyber space if poor manners and nastiness were handled by effective, intelligent moderation, rather than by random and seemingly heavy-handed locking and movement of threads.

I have been here almost since the beginning and have watched FlyerTalk grow from something very tentative to something very strong, inclusive and joyful--exactly because it was enabling, spontaneous and fun. Yes as it grew it attracted some less than desirable types and yes they will continue to arrive from time to time but I see no reason that they could not be easily handled (as they are on every other bulletin board I frequent) with effective moderation.

It is, IMHO, a shame to throw out the baby (our wonderful FlyerTalk Community) with the bathwater, when far more workable and desirable solutions are readily available.

The real concern here is not doc or the movie thread or the steak house thread. The real issue is the development and equitable application of reasonable and definable guidelines and procedures. Those are the questions that are asked again and again and again and never seem to be comprehended or answered.

****sigh**** very much indeed. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif



[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-20-2002).]

Now, there you have the real AMEN.

------------------
Gaucho100K

Great post Wharvey.. I couldn't agree with you more.. Doc is fine, we all (most of us anyway) miss him want him back and we all know that... there isn't any more reason to beat a dead horse here..

It would appear that we are having a slight problem with not being able to see the forest for the trees.

For the purposes of this discussion, doc is a tree, the movie thread is a tree, all individual issues, (which I am beginning to suspect are being drug up as red herrings to avoid the real issue) are simply trees.

The forest is:

I would very much appreciate, for the purposes of this discussion, focusing on the forest and not getting bogged down in the trees.

I miss doc. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

How does this thread differ from the one that you also posted in Talkboard? Isn't this just another thread that says the samething, asks the same questions.. and takes up the space of your clients who need to sift through all our FT stuff that takes up their precious time? I didn't know that FT existed for them?

[This message has been edited by TrojanHorse (edited 04-20-2002).]

TrojanHorse wites:

Yes both threads are similar in that they are both asking for equity, clarity and definition.

I personally believe that freedom of speech and the right to (very politely, of course) speak one's mind is extremely precious and those are the exact freedoms that I see ebbing away with the heavy-handed and totally random time outs and thread closings, that occur regularly on FLyerTalk these days without any clear guildlines or explanations.

Why are some people temporarily banned without a clear reason and other who have posted truly hateful personal attacks on others allowed to continue and even receive praise?

I believe very strongly in equity and will continue to fight to attain it until I believe it has been achieved. Please remember that I an an old lady who was trained to believe that, when you know you are right, you must persist and be willing to put your money where your mouth is, chain yourself to the courthouse railing, and even go to jail, if necessary, to prevent injustice.

Did you think that the very first time we started talking about Viet Nam that the government said, "Oh yeah. Ok, we are wrong. We'll change our direction tomorrow."

People who know me well know that I am a most peaaceful person, and I have made great effort never to say anything unkind or unfair to anyone on FlyerTalk, even when (especially when) I disagree with them. When , however, I see people being treated unfairly, I will continue to attempt to right that wrong as long as I have strenghth in my fingers and an internet connection. Sooner or later the wisest among you will begin to get the point and the rest will follow. Well at least that is how it happened with Viet Nam. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

If in the process of politely speaking what I believe to be the truth, I am banned. So be it, such an action would more graphically prove my point than anything I could ever do or say.



[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-20-2002).]

My immediate point is that you mentioned in the TB version that good flyertalkers (as opposed to the bad ones I guess) are leaving b/c they have to sift through threads that do not belong in an area or are hard to find and that they have a very limited amount of precious time (I guess the rest of us do not have any time constraints). anyway, this thread would appear to me as being a duplicate issue in the wrong forum which is just what you are trying to prevent...

For the record, I have never met you and do not know a thing about you other than what I read.. nor am I looking for any character references for you.. I just am very curious as to why you are doing something you seem so adamantly are trying to prevent?

Very Good Point TrojanHorse.

Rather than copy/paste my thoughts on this issue, here is a thread on the same issue.


http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum...ML/000058.html

Purely as an example, every few days, someone new (to the question) may wonder "What has happened to doc?". Therefore, the reason for new threads.

Of course, there's nothing preventing those who have no interest whatever in what has happened to doc from simply ignoring such threads, since they are all clearly labeled, in the same way that many of us change the channel whenever we encounter professional wrestling on television.

Or, do some feel that they are entitled not to even be subject to knowledge of the availability of things in which they are not interested? (Note: The world does not generally work this way. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif)

IMO this thread is inappropriate here ("The official get together page for the FlyerTalk community.") and belongs in Talk Board Issues (Discussion of issues for the first-ever FlyerTalk TalkBoard (User advisory Council)

Generally, this is a good place to post a query to survey the feelings of the FTers who take extra effort to meet and greet each other in various locations around the world. So many forums have split off, that it takes a great deal of time to sift through all of them. By force of habit, many will only look here for items such as this topic.

I agree that sucessful moderation depends on fair and equal treatment of all posters. An open and civil discussion of any issue is the basis of much of our political thought, and ensuring that discussion can take place is the key to a vibrant and mature community.

[This message has been edited by eMailman (edited 04-20-2002).]

At the risk of extending this thread into the next century, i've decided to come on today and lay down some facts for you all to consider. Say or think what you will, but try not to let the facts get in the way.

Two things at play here: thread extention and clsoing of a few threads. Let's take the idea of thread extention because i think the thread that started this conversation was initiated by Punki. It was titled "Has anyone communicated with doc in the past couple of days?" That thread was started on 3/30. Check the links yourselves folks. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/001884.html
Seems innocent enough huh? Well, I find it quite interesting that Punki posted to a thread of the same topic just the day before and it would be pretty close to impossible to not know that Doc was fine, others had heard from him the days in the past, etc. etc. since to reply to that post, one would think you had read the thread. Correct? So while a member can start a topic of their choosing, please make sure that you don't try and embarass me in claiming 'I didn't know". The other thread in question was started 3/21 and I closed it on 3/29, the day before Punki started hers about Doc. But, she posted to that thread about Doc on 3/29. Check the facts please: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/001865.html

This is posted here only for factual basis. Now there is a thread about why they were closed. Again, let's take a close look at the facts.

On the two threads that were closed, many of your were so busy trying to find the forest, that you completely missed the trees. I didn't. Let's look at the last three posts (the ones after Punki's post) before my post to close the thread:

geordie6
Posts: 374
From: Newcastle area
Registered: Sep 2000 posted 03-29-2002 02:43 AM
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quote:
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He is _really_ not appreciated by us longtime FTers.
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essexjay. Surely you should have learn a lesson from the recent debate in this heated thread where dozens of longtime FT'ers attacked your same contention above re Doc? Many FT'ers here longer than you have posted on both threads to the contrary. Please do NOT presume to speak for everyone on FT with your anti-doc rants.

cactuspete
Posts: 2069
From: Home of the World Champion Arizona Diamondbacks
Registered: Sep 2000 posted 03-29-2002 07:56 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by essxjay:
He is _really_ not appreciated by us longtime FTers.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Drop it!

What exactly is a "longtime FTer"? Where is the cutoff point? And why? And who appointed you spokesperson for the group?

Whatever it was that you had or thought you had is gone. Things change. FT changes. Get ovet it.

ScottC
Posts: 1878
From: WBGS Global HQ
Registered: Sep 2000 posted 03-29-2002 08:06 AM
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I don't own this great place, have not been appointed moderator or talkboard member, don't have any more rights than any other fellow member but:

please oh please let my humble post be the last one here, this has gone on far too long...

NOW. Is this related to the topic - Where's Doc? Do you not see the start of a flame war here? Well, I did see the topic veering rather dramatically off-topic and I did see what might have erupted into an all out flame war which after seeing a few of my favorite members - PG, NJDavid and Doc start in the same way, was not prepared to take a chance everything was cool. Now, I'm sitting here thinking that good, if we can prevent another forest fire, than that's good for FlyerTalk. And you even see that members themselves see this thread as having gone its course. But it seems many of you didn't see that. Let's see, if i took a chance and that exchange did continue and erupt into more of a shouting match, then you'd have something more to complain about. Now let's take a look at the other thread in question. Here's some of the last posts before i closed that one:

essxjay
Posts: 2307
From: PDX -- UA 1P, US Gold, Hilton Gold
Registered: posted 04-10-2002 11:53 AM
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No offense, but mark me in the column for 'I don't miss doc.'

FewMiles
Posts: 2065
From: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999 posted 04-11-2002 10:52 AM
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News postings ok.
Dredging up old threads all the time not ok.
Cross-posting not ok.
Pissing matches with other FTers not ok.
Too many smileys not ok.
What was the question?
Why the heck am I posting this?

FewMiles..

geo1004
Posts: 3339
From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA, - US Gold
Registered: Jan 99 posted 04-11-2002 11:37 AM
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doc's a big boy. He'll come back when he's ready.

Why don't we end this thread that is talking about a fellow FlyerTalker and get back to being FlyerTalkers talking about flying?

TrojanHorse
Posts: 1461
From: Reston VA CO Plat, DL Gold, MR Plat, Hh Diam, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, National EA
Registered: Dec 2000 posted 04-11-2002 01:31 PM
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Just to start countering SXJ's persistance on letting everyone know her position on doc - how pathetic is that!!!!

NOW! You don't see a simmering eruption here (if not, then you want to to refresh the last eruption from Essxjay's comments when some of you very same members yelled that we didn't close things fast enough. For your information, this post and that one both contain a same word. The word: pathetic. Here I move to prevent another forest fire, just as many of you have called for. And you also miss the call from other members that this thread has run it's course. Did you miss the fact that in both instances, members such as yourself - and good members at that - were saying this thread was going no where.

Please continue with your posting to this topic, but really, take a few minutes to let the facts sink in before you post another comment.

And like my good friend Smokey the Bear says - Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires.......

[This message has been edited by Randy Petersen (edited 04-20-2002).]

The key to understanding my post was clearly stated here:

I personally believe that closing down any thread that may be high-jacked by those among us who believe it necessary to post their least pleasant feelings about everyone who is not on their "best friend" list, is the most cumbersome, offputting and least desirable way to approach moderation.

How much more effective and enabling it would be to simply request that the offending poster edit his/her post (or have it edited by the moderator if they refuse) and allow valuable threads to continue.

This closing/moving of threads as a moderation method is, to the best of my knowledge, an original effort and certainly one that was worth considering. Now that it has proven that it causes more harm than good, is there some reason why we can make an effort to implement the fine guideline that Blonde Bomber suggested, which have been tried and proven on thousands of bulletin boards throughout cyberspace?

Again, could we please get past the doc tree and talk about the what are the rules forest, which is the real issue under discussion?

[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-20-2002).]

TigerTiger, two good points.. but my question now begs: do we need this on both threads..

My other point is that Punki is stating in the TB thread that her friends/Clients/colleagues..i'm not sure what they are to her, are leaving b/c things are being moved, too much junk to sort through (they don't have enough time) etc.. and this double posting is just what she is complaining about yet she continues on with both threads..

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

[self censured]


[This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited 04-21-2002).]

TigerTiger writes,

Again, there must be some misunderstanding on his/her part of what I actually wrote.

To clarify, I teach Frequent Flyer classes (at no financial gain to me) to all kinds of people involved in the trade show exhibit industry, just because I love travel and love to share whatever knowledge I have. These students are, I imagine, colleagues, and hopefully will become friends.

I also have personal travel cards that I give out when I travel(I talk to everybody) and these cards contain the FlyerTalk website. Over the years I have invited at least 1,000 people to the site.

Now, what I actually said regarding these new invitees is that recently they have reported that they come to FlyerTalk, post and then when they come back can't find their posts and then become frustrated and simply leave FlyerTalk for good.

I have also spoken with a number of long-time FlyerTalkers who are displeased with the heavy handed manner in which posts are closed and moved and also to many who are angry that people are timed-out, with no explanation and no clear, definable rules. This is especially frustrating when there are clear incidents of severe TOS violation that are simply ignored.

While it is good to seek order on FlyerTalk, for the administration to do so at the cost of the respect and participation of long-time FlyerTalkers, and at the further cost of all of the joy, fun and spontaneity that has made the FlyerTalk community what it is, is a very grave error.

You must have me confused with someone else who complained about too much junk to sort through. I am firmly positioned in the, "If it doesn't please you, just don't read it" camp. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif That is the reason I often seem/am totally unaware of some of the raging conflicts on FT.

[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-21-2002).]

deleted

[This message has been edited by tigertiger (edited 04-21-2002).]

Sorry, my mistake. How do I contact a moderator to ask that this thread be moved?

[This message has been edited by tigertiger (edited 04-21-2002).]

[This message has been edited by tigertiger (edited 04-21-2002).]

I agree wholeheartedly. The solution is not to keep on closing threads, but to take some decisive action against those who hijack such threads and against those who start the flame wars. And, as suggested by Punki, the action could be asking the poster to edit their post themselves (and have the moderator edit the thread if the original poster refuses to do so).

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 04-21-2002).]

I 2nd that motion

For me Community, is the heart and soul of FlyerTalk. I have made so many amazing friends through FlyerTalk and had so many truly fabulous experiences with them, that I can't even imagine my life without them.

I truly believe that a discussion of what is and is not acceptable in Community and why Community threads are closed or moved belongs squarely in the Community Forum. Where else would these discussions go?

The desription of FlyerTalk Community is:

The official get together page for the FlyerTalk community.

What exactly, however, does that mean? Is Community for the getting together of members of the community in cyberspace, for becoming closer friends for caring for and sharing with one another? Or, is it only for the planning of face to face parties?

Is Community an appropriate forum for the sharing of birthday wishes, "Paying Fair" discussions, the sad announcement of the demise of a beloved FlyerTalk Community member, the joyous sharing of a birth or a new job? Is it an appropriate home for the 1000 post club?

All of the rules and regulations for every program are readily available on line or by calling the program directly. FlyerTalk is alive and real specifically because of the vast sharing and caring that occurs among its members.

Naturally, if we are to trhive as a Community, we must have civility and good manners in all forums. I happen to believe that by far the best method of achieving civility while still allowing the community the freedom to grow is to simploy edit out the offensive post and allow the thread to stand. That is the main point of this post and the question I would like addressed.

Thank you.

Where else would these discussions go?

IMHO, 1. Talkboard would be the best place for them as it will be TB and Randy who will have the final say on all of these issues..

2. Or, How about suggestions... a place to put your wishlist for FT..

It appears you are wishing for the T&C's to be explained in every little detail.. that is a wish that you have.. so why not in suggestions? You are wishing that offensive (and wishing I hope to define offensive posts) posts are edited.. sounds like a suggestions topic the more I think about it.

I notice you posted the same thread in TB on April 11th... After 2 3/4 pages of responses in that thread, you decide on April 19th to post the same **** thread in community. WHY? Whats up with the duplication of threads? will we see this in another topic shortly?

Or do different rules apply where some FTers can post duplicate threads that are off topic yet when someone else does it's a no no?

As for simply editing out what one FT thinks is an offensive post, others may not think it is offensive.. those FTers just don't need to read it.. If Randy (or a designee) believes the T&C's have been violated, he can deal with that individual as he sees fit, but to go in and edit someones post is not right because another FT feels its offensive, that does NOT make it offensive.

Finally although I'm for no moderation, when a thread is moved, so be it.. its really no big deal.. maybe it would be nice to be able to find it in five seconds or less but it doesn't work that way so we just deal with it or most of us do anyway.

The issue is not about a post which any FTer finds offensive. The issue is about a post which Randy (or designee) finds offensive enough to take some action.

The question then is what should the action be. If the action is to simply close that thread, then it is an open invitation for people to hijack threads that they do not like.

I see no problem with Randy (or designee) asking a FTer to edit their comments (especially when the comments clearly violate the TOS). That, to me, is far preferable than locking the thread.

This may work in theory, however two issues arise, 1) in many cases these threads snowball once hijacked and are seldom caught at the first sign of a so called hijack. Even if it is caught in its infancy, it would take Randy or designee time to contact the poster who is/has causing the problem, request his/her edit, have the poster in question make the edit etc.. in the mean time there are numerous posts to the one in question and the thread is hijacked as you call it. However the problem then becomes having a bunch of people who subsequently responded edit their posts which takes even more time.. Its much more efficient for Randy or designee to lock it.. if it truly is a worthy topic it will come back to life. I can't recall one topic shut down that probably didn't deserve it.. Maybe there was, but I dont' recall it.

2) I truly don't believe most of the threads that are what you call hijacked are just that... hijacked.. I think they stray way off topic at times but oh well that is just the cost of doing business here or someone posts something that another FT doesn't like, or feels is offensive and either a flame war, arguement or something happens but it happens gradually and feeds of each of the preceeding posts. I don't believe that FT'ers go out of their way and intentionally say I'm going to shut this thread down by hijacking it.. Off topic oh yeah... intentional hijacking.. I don't believe so..

I think that it is workable, and have seen at least one other board where this approach works.

In terms of the extent of what some FTers may go out of the way, consider the fact that there are already duplicate "pfp" handles created solely for the purpose of harassing other FTers.

Ah, now that's a totally different subject. I agree wholeheartedly that multiple handles from those that participate here should be banned. People using them to harass, to be humourous, to pretend to be people they are not, or pretend to be entire families. All are major detractors from this community.

I believe that each participant should have to pay a fee on a major credit card, or send a driver's license copy, or do something that enables Inside Flyer to verify that they are a real person, and not a duplicate handle BEFORE they are allowed to post. Then you wouldn't need so much moderation. People behave differently when they do not act with the shield of anonymity.

You are absolutely right, Trojan Horse, that really good moderation definitely requires rapid attention to questionable posts. The moderators could handle almost any problem by temporarily editing the post, at the same time that he/she offers the original poster the opportunity to go back and re-edit it him or herself. To accomplish this efficiently, each forum should have a minimum of two moderators and all of the moderators should work together as a team to develop an overall moderation style for the board, with the administrator serving in an advisory capacity, rather than as a day-to-day moderator. This method actually works very efficiently on every other bulletin board I have seen and I can think of no reason that it wouldn't work here as well.

This reduces the frustration of having perfectly logical, civil threads shut down and only impacts the offending poster, rather than all contributors to the thread.

NJDavid, I know how strongly you feel about having a positive identity for every poster and in a perfect world I would agree. Without getting into the endless debate of whether or not people would actually give a copy of their driver's license, pay a fee or whatever to join the community, I have never noticed that the lack of identity of posters was a really serious problem.

There are, of course, random occasions where an unknown party jumps into FlyerTalk and begins posting raving obscenities, but as I recall, the majority of the posts that have been clear TOS violations, included personal attacks, eventually developed into flames wars and/or resulted in temporary or permanent bans, were made by individuals who were well known (both on-line and generally in person) to most long-time FlyerTalkers.

It would appear, however, that this thread has wandered far and wide from and not really addressing my original questions, so I think I will repost my questions with a new title which may clarify my concern.

I apologize for any confusion that the wording of the title of this post may have encouraged.



[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-22-2002).]

Punki questions: Answer: FYI, that's from:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum75/HTML/000008.html

That's pretty clear to me, but for those that weren't around at it's conception, they might not know and a better descriptor would be in order, IMHO.

Itineraries are quick chance "passing in the night" sort of things. Community is for more organized get togethers.

IMHO, everything about your children, favorite sports team, religious preference, job situation, political agenda, etc. belongs in OMNI. That's what it was created for and orginally was quite functional until some folks just started flooding it with anything and everything that passed over their news reader.

I believe that as folks get to the point that they don't have as much frequent traveler stuff to learn here anymore, that they start posting more and more OMNI stuff (but not always in the OMNI forum http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif ). For these folks, rather than a frequent traveler resource, FlyerTalk becomes a big part of their day-to-day social life beyond traveling.

That's fine and good if kept in a dedicated forum, but it should not be the primary funciton of FlyerTalk, IMHO.

Prior to OMNI, most personal info was gleaned from side bars and personal comments to existing threads in the various airline program forums. Then we created OMNI to free the personal stuff from the factual resource of FlyerTalk.

I really wish people would use OMNI more for their personal posts, and others use OMNI less as a dumping ground for any general news item that they personally find interesting.

And kudos for the moderators that keep moving the stuff posted in the wrong forums! I know they can't catch 'em all, but I appreciate the ones they do catch and I personally don't think they are prejudiced just because they don't or can't get to them all due to limited time on their volunteer job.

Personally, I've always commented that I think the airline forums should start right off at the top of the bulletin board. I think you'd see a lot less incorrect posting in MilesBuzz and Community if it was arranged that way. Because I believe newbies (before they learn the ropes) and others, tend to post where they first enter and see the biggest post count.

So some post there at the sacrifice of organization, just to get what they think will be the most readership. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

IMHO.

PremEx posts:

I have never heard that idea before, but it has real merit. Have you suggested it to Randy?

wrong topic

[This message has been edited by TrojanHorse (edited 04-22-2002).]

I honestly rarely read anything other than Community. The reason being is that my real interest is keeping up with what is going on with people in our FT Community. If I need some advise on miles or anything else I have plenty of people whom I can email directly for the info. I believe that "Community" is here to connect the people of our Community. I agree 120% with Punki.


Why are people so...never mind you just don't get it do you?

MNSHO



[This message has been edited by wingless (edited 04-24-2002).]

Premex,
I'm 100% behind the 'get Buzz off the top of the page' concept - I agree it's location and visible post count which give that forum the 'status' it enjoys as the 'super forum' - and that concurrently causes it to be the depository of more off-topic posts.