IMO this thread is inappropriate here ("The official get together page for the FlyerTalk community.") and belongs in Talk Board Issues (Discussion of issues for the first-ever FlyerTalk TalkBoard (User advisory Council)

Generally, this is a good place to post a query to survey the feelings of the FTers who take extra effort to meet and greet each other in various locations around the world. So many forums have split off, that it takes a great deal of time to sift through all of them. By force of habit, many will only look here for items such as this topic.

I agree that sucessful moderation depends on fair and equal treatment of all posters. An open and civil discussion of any issue is the basis of much of our political thought, and ensuring that discussion can take place is the key to a vibrant and mature community.

[This message has been edited by eMailman (edited 04-20-2002).]

At the risk of extending this thread into the next century, i've decided to come on today and lay down some facts for you all to consider. Say or think what you will, but try not to let the facts get in the way.

Two things at play here: thread extention and clsoing of a few threads. Let's take the idea of thread extention because i think the thread that started this conversation was initiated by Punki. It was titled "Has anyone communicated with doc in the past couple of days?" That thread was started on 3/30. Check the links yourselves folks. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/001884.html
Seems innocent enough huh? Well, I find it quite interesting that Punki posted to a thread of the same topic just the day before and it would be pretty close to impossible to not know that Doc was fine, others had heard from him the days in the past, etc. etc. since to reply to that post, one would think you had read the thread. Correct? So while a member can start a topic of their choosing, please make sure that you don't try and embarass me in claiming 'I didn't know". The other thread in question was started 3/21 and I closed it on 3/29, the day before Punki started hers about Doc. But, she posted to that thread about Doc on 3/29. Check the facts please: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/001865.html

This is posted here only for factual basis. Now there is a thread about why they were closed. Again, let's take a close look at the facts.

On the two threads that were closed, many of your were so busy trying to find the forest, that you completely missed the trees. I didn't. Let's look at the last three posts (the ones after Punki's post) before my post to close the thread:

geordie6
Posts: 374
From: Newcastle area
Registered: Sep 2000 posted 03-29-2002 02:43 AM
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quote:
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He is _really_ not appreciated by us longtime FTers.
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essexjay. Surely you should have learn a lesson from the recent debate in this heated thread where dozens of longtime FT'ers attacked your same contention above re Doc? Many FT'ers here longer than you have posted on both threads to the contrary. Please do NOT presume to speak for everyone on FT with your anti-doc rants.

cactuspete
Posts: 2069
From: Home of the World Champion Arizona Diamondbacks
Registered: Sep 2000 posted 03-29-2002 07:56 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by essxjay:
He is _really_ not appreciated by us longtime FTers.
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Drop it!

What exactly is a "longtime FTer"? Where is the cutoff point? And why? And who appointed you spokesperson for the group?

Whatever it was that you had or thought you had is gone. Things change. FT changes. Get ovet it.

ScottC
Posts: 1878
From: WBGS Global HQ
Registered: Sep 2000 posted 03-29-2002 08:06 AM
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I don't own this great place, have not been appointed moderator or talkboard member, don't have any more rights than any other fellow member but:

please oh please let my humble post be the last one here, this has gone on far too long...

NOW. Is this related to the topic - Where's Doc? Do you not see the start of a flame war here? Well, I did see the topic veering rather dramatically off-topic and I did see what might have erupted into an all out flame war which after seeing a few of my favorite members - PG, NJDavid and Doc start in the same way, was not prepared to take a chance everything was cool. Now, I'm sitting here thinking that good, if we can prevent another forest fire, than that's good for FlyerTalk. And you even see that members themselves see this thread as having gone its course. But it seems many of you didn't see that. Let's see, if i took a chance and that exchange did continue and erupt into more of a shouting match, then you'd have something more to complain about. Now let's take a look at the other thread in question. Here's some of the last posts before i closed that one:

essxjay
Posts: 2307
From: PDX -- UA 1P, US Gold, Hilton Gold
Registered: posted 04-10-2002 11:53 AM
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No offense, but mark me in the column for 'I don't miss doc.'

FewMiles
Posts: 2065
From: Edmonton, Canada
Registered: Nov 1999 posted 04-11-2002 10:52 AM
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News postings ok.
Dredging up old threads all the time not ok.
Cross-posting not ok.
Pissing matches with other FTers not ok.
Too many smileys not ok.
What was the question?
Why the heck am I posting this?

FewMiles..

geo1004
Posts: 3339
From: Alexandria, Virginia, USA, - US Gold
Registered: Jan 99 posted 04-11-2002 11:37 AM
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doc's a big boy. He'll come back when he's ready.

Why don't we end this thread that is talking about a fellow FlyerTalker and get back to being FlyerTalkers talking about flying?

TrojanHorse
Posts: 1461
From: Reston VA CO Plat, DL Gold, MR Plat, Hh Diam, SPG Plat, Hyatt Plat, National EA
Registered: Dec 2000 posted 04-11-2002 01:31 PM
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Just to start countering SXJ's persistance on letting everyone know her position on doc - how pathetic is that!!!!

NOW! You don't see a simmering eruption here (if not, then you want to to refresh the last eruption from Essxjay's comments when some of you very same members yelled that we didn't close things fast enough. For your information, this post and that one both contain a same word. The word: pathetic. Here I move to prevent another forest fire, just as many of you have called for. And you also miss the call from other members that this thread has run it's course. Did you miss the fact that in both instances, members such as yourself - and good members at that - were saying this thread was going no where.

Please continue with your posting to this topic, but really, take a few minutes to let the facts sink in before you post another comment.

And like my good friend Smokey the Bear says - Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires.......

[This message has been edited by Randy Petersen (edited 04-20-2002).]

The key to understanding my post was clearly stated here:

I personally believe that closing down any thread that may be high-jacked by those among us who believe it necessary to post their least pleasant feelings about everyone who is not on their "best friend" list, is the most cumbersome, offputting and least desirable way to approach moderation.

How much more effective and enabling it would be to simply request that the offending poster edit his/her post (or have it edited by the moderator if they refuse) and allow valuable threads to continue.

This closing/moving of threads as a moderation method is, to the best of my knowledge, an original effort and certainly one that was worth considering. Now that it has proven that it causes more harm than good, is there some reason why we can make an effort to implement the fine guideline that Blonde Bomber suggested, which have been tried and proven on thousands of bulletin boards throughout cyberspace?

Again, could we please get past the doc tree and talk about the what are the rules forest, which is the real issue under discussion?

[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-20-2002).]

TigerTiger, two good points.. but my question now begs: do we need this on both threads..

My other point is that Punki is stating in the TB thread that her friends/Clients/colleagues..i'm not sure what they are to her, are leaving b/c things are being moved, too much junk to sort through (they don't have enough time) etc.. and this double posting is just what she is complaining about yet she continues on with both threads..

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif

[self censured]


[This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited 04-21-2002).]

TigerTiger writes,

Again, there must be some misunderstanding on his/her part of what I actually wrote.

To clarify, I teach Frequent Flyer classes (at no financial gain to me) to all kinds of people involved in the trade show exhibit industry, just because I love travel and love to share whatever knowledge I have. These students are, I imagine, colleagues, and hopefully will become friends.

I also have personal travel cards that I give out when I travel(I talk to everybody) and these cards contain the FlyerTalk website. Over the years I have invited at least 1,000 people to the site.

Now, what I actually said regarding these new invitees is that recently they have reported that they come to FlyerTalk, post and then when they come back can't find their posts and then become frustrated and simply leave FlyerTalk for good.

I have also spoken with a number of long-time FlyerTalkers who are displeased with the heavy handed manner in which posts are closed and moved and also to many who are angry that people are timed-out, with no explanation and no clear, definable rules. This is especially frustrating when there are clear incidents of severe TOS violation that are simply ignored.

While it is good to seek order on FlyerTalk, for the administration to do so at the cost of the respect and participation of long-time FlyerTalkers, and at the further cost of all of the joy, fun and spontaneity that has made the FlyerTalk community what it is, is a very grave error.

You must have me confused with someone else who complained about too much junk to sort through. I am firmly positioned in the, "If it doesn't please you, just don't read it" camp. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif That is the reason I often seem/am totally unaware of some of the raging conflicts on FT.

[This message has been edited by Punki (edited 04-21-2002).]

deleted

[This message has been edited by tigertiger (edited 04-21-2002).]

Sorry, my mistake. How do I contact a moderator to ask that this thread be moved?

[This message has been edited by tigertiger (edited 04-21-2002).]

[This message has been edited by tigertiger (edited 04-21-2002).]

I agree wholeheartedly. The solution is not to keep on closing threads, but to take some decisive action against those who hijack such threads and against those who start the flame wars. And, as suggested by Punki, the action could be asking the poster to edit their post themselves (and have the moderator edit the thread if the original poster refuses to do so).

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 04-21-2002).]

I 2nd that motion

For me Community, is the heart and soul of FlyerTalk. I have made so many amazing friends through FlyerTalk and had so many truly fabulous experiences with them, that I can't even imagine my life without them.

I truly believe that a discussion of what is and is not acceptable in Community and why Community threads are closed or moved belongs squarely in the Community Forum. Where else would these discussions go?

The desription of FlyerTalk Community is:

The official get together page for the FlyerTalk community.

What exactly, however, does that mean? Is Community for the getting together of members of the community in cyberspace, for becoming closer friends for caring for and sharing with one another? Or, is it only for the planning of face to face parties?

Is Community an appropriate forum for the sharing of birthday wishes, "Paying Fair" discussions, the sad announcement of the demise of a beloved FlyerTalk Community member, the joyous sharing of a birth or a new job? Is it an appropriate home for the 1000 post club?

All of the rules and regulations for every program are readily available on line or by calling the program directly. FlyerTalk is alive and real specifically because of the vast sharing and caring that occurs among its members.

Naturally, if we are to trhive as a Community, we must have civility and good manners in all forums. I happen to believe that by far the best method of achieving civility while still allowing the community the freedom to grow is to simploy edit out the offensive post and allow the thread to stand. That is the main point of this post and the question I would like addressed.

Thank you.

Where else would these discussions go?

IMHO, 1. Talkboard would be the best place for them as it will be TB and Randy who will have the final say on all of these issues..

2. Or, How about suggestions... a place to put your wishlist for FT..

It appears you are wishing for the T&C's to be explained in every little detail.. that is a wish that you have.. so why not in suggestions? You are wishing that offensive (and wishing I hope to define offensive posts) posts are edited.. sounds like a suggestions topic the more I think about it.

I notice you posted the same thread in TB on April 11th... After 2 3/4 pages of responses in that thread, you decide on April 19th to post the same **** thread in community. WHY? Whats up with the duplication of threads? will we see this in another topic shortly?

Or do different rules apply where some FTers can post duplicate threads that are off topic yet when someone else does it's a no no?

As for simply editing out what one FT thinks is an offensive post, others may not think it is offensive.. those FTers just don't need to read it.. If Randy (or a designee) believes the T&C's have been violated, he can deal with that individual as he sees fit, but to go in and edit someones post is not right because another FT feels its offensive, that does NOT make it offensive.

Finally although I'm for no moderation, when a thread is moved, so be it.. its really no big deal.. maybe it would be nice to be able to find it in five seconds or less but it doesn't work that way so we just deal with it or most of us do anyway.