the 'old' clique (of FlyerTalk)
 

from time to time (recently also discussed by TalkBoard members) there are rumours and facts discussed about the old clique of FlyerTalk.

Here are some facts from a member of the old clique (this is entirely my own thinking, and this/my post has not been discussed in any way before posting now, with any other FlyerTalker/oldie):

Some 25 FlyerTalk oldies somewhen back in the very early days of FlyerTalk wanted, in add to the public conversations run on the board, also have a more private place to discuss more 'intimate'/'private' matters (often and in a huge majority things unrelated to FlyerTalk and miles: real private issues etc.).

Sure, yes, from time to time we also discussed FlyerTalk issues like:
* how to deal with multiple handles
* how to deal with fraud on FlyerTalk (an early FlyerTalker did missuse the trust we had in each other by using/stealing his well known fathers reputation and got some FlyerTalkers into real life trouble trusting him and his informations/invitations (we got rid of him!)
* how to deal with flame wars
* how to promote FlyerTalk (the OMNI awards were partially born out of this) and also the PIP (Party in Paradise) idea and organisation started 'within' this clique.
* the current FlyerTalk home-page link was first secured/registered by us and than given as a present to Randy at the PIP.
* when FlyerTalk was often down in the first 2 years, but also as we were not 100% happy with some early censoring, we created also an alternative 'back-up' board (for 'just in case'), always informing Randy and he didn't mind.

For those folling the TalkBoard discussions closely, it is probably no secret that currently some oldies (me included) of our/this 'old' clique (of FlyerTalk), are very much concerned about the way (openess?/fairness?), some of the now leading FlyerBoard members treat /discuss personal issues (of some of us, but also of other FlyerTalkers).

Rudi, a proud member of the FlyerTalk 'old' clique

(edited to correct some typing errors, that even I, a Swiss-german, noticed ...)

[This message has been edited by Rudi (edited 03-16-2002).]

Here, Here I agree. From an almost old clique member. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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Cheers Scott

I too am very proud (even honored) to be a member of the Old "Clique", most specifically proud because of the extremely high level of integrity, objectivity, understanding, respect, intelligence, decorum, generosity and kindness that has existed amongst its members from the beginning. Does this mean we always agree on everything? Absolutely not! Trust me, even Rudi and I have some subjects on which we have very politely, but very emphatically agreed to disagree. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

What Rudi has not said is that he is a true gentlemen of the most exalted order, most worthy of the highest level of respect and admiration in all situations. He has also not said (and cannot say) that he has often been the guiding hand in making absolutely certain that all discussions conducted among Old "Clique" members (both in public and in private) have been conducted with true respect, honor and consideration for all persons, including persons whom we have never met and even persons who have exhibited less than honorable behavior in the past, whether or not they are present at the time or have access to the information under discussion.

Applause to the Old "Clique, to all it has done to enhance FlyerTalk over the years, and to all of you who, by virtue of your extremely high levels of integrity, understanding, objectivity, respect, intelligence, decorum, generosity and kindness will become the Old "Clique" members of tomorrow.

"extremely high levels of . . . intelligence, decorum, . . ."

--is that what we were exhibiting at Carnival in Dusseldorf! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
(sometimes we may not be smart and we may not be proper, but we can have a lot of fun)

Hail to the Old F*rts (er Clique)!

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BlondeBomber's Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart 2002
Dorian's Star Alliance RTW Price Chart

I'm certainly aware that a lot of the folks who have been here since Moses was a boy are the ones I've learned the most from and who have been warm and caring as they point out how little I really know about this miles game. Many of the oldies I've come to know personally, and I count them as great friends - a most welcome and unexpected benefit of having registered on this site almost two years ago.

I don't remotely resent the "Old Clique".. I'm thrilled there's one place left in the universe where the adjective "old" isn't applied to ME! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I have posted a number of times that we are alucky lot here at FlyerTalk that the first persons who got here (back in the days before registration dates were given) were the persons that they were.
They created a solid base for FlyerTalk that has weathered seemingly every storm thrown at it.
I for one am thankful that much like a passenger on a plane in turbulence there has been a crew working tirelessly and selfishly attempting to keep the plane on course.
Because for each and everyone of us the destination and the flight there has become a more rewarding experience here at flyertalk.
Thank you Rudi and all the other oldtimers. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/thumbsup.gif

I look at it this way: Say you are in college, and you become close with the folks in Freshman class with you. You form bonds and that is good. Then you come back Sophomore year, and there is a good base of friends, but also many new friends who are freshmen.

Soon, it is Junior year, and you have plenty of friends in both your class AND in the Sophomore class PLUS new ones every day who are freshmen

By Senior year, you are closer to some Juniors and Sophomores then many Seniors PLUS are making many new friends of freshmen.

And on and on.

Some of my closest FT "posse" have been on FT for less then a year.

So while I guess I'm firmly entrenched in several "cliques" I dont see that as a barrier to expanding relationships with anyone. To me, FT has ALWAYS been about the people (and the fun) first, the sharing of info second....

What's a clique? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Hats off to our founding brothers and sisters!

My thoughts - exactly!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Rudi is one cool Dude that doesnt need anybody to throw him praise, but credit must be given where credit is due.

Let us all not forget Rudi is the prime example of a community member that helps hot-headed newbies like myself re-think our posts and edit them after we have clicked the "post" button. Rudi is always one of the first members of the community in welcoming newcomers to these boards, he is never tired of answering the same question 400 times (without just posting a link).

Rudi will even send you a follow up email to give you personalized advice. I experienced all this and more during my first 2 weeks at Flyertalk, all courtesy of the same Swiss Gentleman.

Its things like this that show you that no matter what the rules are or are-not, no matter who is appointed Moderator, President, Vice-president or Talkboard Member, there are some people on this board that because of certain intangibles create order & civility by their mere presence, with no need to throw their weight around or have some sort of badge to flash.

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Gaucho100K

[This message has been edited by Gaucho100K (edited 03-16-2002).]

My reference to the OLD and the NEW click on flyertalk was meant to be:

Old Click - The Flyertalkers here from the beginning. Or maybe 2 plus years.

New Click - Flyertalkers here less than 2 years.

This my friends was the tone of the statement. Nothing more. Nothing less.

The bad thing about writing things down (as I've discovered) is that they are w i d e open to interpretation.

If I may quote (hopefully not misquote) Charlie Brown, "Good Grief".

Now I know how the politicians feel. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

Dan

DHammer53, how did you anticipate that your TalkBoard post might be interpreted? Here is the complete text.

"Punki seems to be standing on thin ice here. But because of her 'queen' reputation here on flyertalk, she thinks she can get away with murder. They'll always be clicks here. That's the way it is. She's part of the old guard here on FT. But look on the bright side, we're the New Click. Good always wins out over evil....eventually."

I'd like to add my thanks to the 'old' clique of FT'ers, without whose thoughts, ideas and comments on travel I never would have lasted here as long as I have. I've met quite a few of them (as well as many of the 'new' clique and am grateful to one and all!

I, for one, am very happy to see the Old "Clique" active and participating in Flyertalk after all the growth and changes here. I think of them as being the alumnis of our little community here.

It's sad that some have moved on, but it's great that others remain to carry on the traditions of Flyertalk as well as make some new ones.

I stand by my post.

It's a shame that this too is taken out of context, compared to the big picture.

But since you are not aware of what transpired, I'll take the heat for how you have interpreted what I wrote.

Now if Punki will take the heat for what she did, I'd be able to get back to sleep at 5:00 am NY time.

Dan

I was (kind of) part of the old clique and was ousted out on my rear end. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I still love the old but I love the new as well.

In the past month I have met some FTers whom I had a great time with as though I had known them for a very long time. I look forward to seeing them again real soon.

As far as cliques are concerned...anyone who has been to any FT meeting knows that by the end of the evening small groups are unintentionally formed. The groups are formed by people with common interests OTHER than FT and miles. Because of the similar interest these smaller groups often keep in touch on FT as well as personal emails, phone calls ect...


Can't we all just get along? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/tongue.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif




[This message has been edited by wingless (edited 03-17-2002).]

Sorry dhammer53, but: ...reads to me in any context:

Old "Clique" = Evil

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

2X + 3Y = wingless

X=good
Y=evil

I fail to understand the whole issue of cliques. Its not cliques that are the problem, its not even the old or new thing. It seems to me that there are some members of those cliques (both the old and the new) that are the problem...

The solution to whats happening on FT is very very simple.

- No more Prima-Donna attitudes (and I dont care how long any member has been here, this community is more valuable than any single one of its participants)

- No more holding this community and its Owner hostage by threatening to leave

- No more demanding for a title or a badge

- Either no rules, or, clear & concise published rules that are enforced for all members


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Gaucho100K

I just wanted to make public my apoligies to those whom I have offended.


I was not nor never will take sides with anyone except for in basketball.


GO CLIPPERS!!! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif

I have been benched

I agree with PremEx on this one. I am having serious difficulty imagining any "big picture" or "context" where it would be appropriate for TalkBoard members to refer to themselves as good and the long-term members of Flyer Talk as evil.

As far as cliques go, Gaucho, when I first came here many years ago, the members of the old clique welcomed me with open arms and taught me far more than I could have imagined about travel and the wonderful friendships that can develop in a Bulletin Board community. I am deeply grateful. Just as I am grateful for the friendship of many delightful newcomers to the board.

While it saddens me that some of my favorite OldTimers no longer post, it also delights me to see that many of them are still here, still welcoming, and still generous with their friendship and their wisdom. We are all fortunate indeed for their presence among us.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Tequila shots next time, right? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Did we form a clique when we all met a few weeks ago? "The Redondo Beach/Hermosa Beach Clique"? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif



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The perfect ladies' man is a perfect gentleman.

I been out of town the last few days and I have missed part of this story. I didn't get Rudi's question or was it a statement?
I always feel that the old timers have a well of knowledge and it's a gift when they share. In my short time here I have found that to be true and I most appreciate what I have learned here. The new friends that I have meet here have made my travels just a little more enjoyable.
I realize that most all of this work is done as volunteer's and many of us gain for free.
I would like to say "THANK YOU" to the old group and the new group.
Lets move on.

I too have learned much from Rudi, Premex and Punki. If these FT'ers were branded 'Evil' I strongly disagree.

FT will continue to evolve. I've been here from the beginning but don't identitfy myself with any so called "cliques". That said I have the utmost regard for Rudi - so any clique that he leads cannot be evil http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Interestingly enough I had once mentioned about the secrecy in the TalkBoard, which was rebutted by Dan, so I was doubly surprised to get the leaked info. If there was no secrecy, how come we don't know about the "big picture"?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum97/HTML/000623.html

I'm having a hard time imagining any big picture as well, nor am I pleased with the leaked info I saw.

[This message has been edited by PG (edited 03-19-2002).]

Arrrgh! I JUST NOW noticed this. I was in Petaluma on Sunday enjoying oysters and beer!

My sincerest apologies for being a dumb a$$. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

A final thought on that old Washington "saw."

There ARE certain advantages to conducting BUSINESS (as opposed to government) in private. And lets stop kidding ourselves that FT or the TB is some sort of democracy. It ain't. It's Randy's business. We have no "rights" here. We play here at the pleasure and whim of the host. If he wants to set aside a group of people, suspend whatever rules may or may not apply generally, or whatever, that is his prerogative. This is NOT the US Government.

Was I upset that I was slandered behind 'closed FT doors?' Not really. I mean,
1) Consider the source, and
2) I've been called much worse.

Randy told me that he hadn't been following the discussions where I (and others) were slandered, and I believe him. I like to think if he had, he wouldn't have let it stand. And now almost all those private threads have been 'cleaned up'.

But even if Randy decided to let those threads and comments stand, heck, even if he WROTE them, the bottom line is that this is his sandlot. He makes the rules and therefore is never wrong.

If I were really offended I would realize that the 'FORMAL power structure' of this place did not respect me and I would leave. But, in the end, IJAFIBB.

So click away, clique away, whatever. Some will always take life, FT, whatever, too seriously.

IJAFIBB.

[This message has been edited by kokonutz (edited 03-19-2002).]

I have many mixed feelings on this issue.

Dhammer brought me into FlyerTalk and for that I am very grateful. He is often the first one to welcome newbies on chat and on boards; his generosity with UAL goodies and other stuff is known to many on this board; and he isa an active participant in several other boards where he is just as kind and generous.That's all I want to say about that because there are clearly other issues between he and other FT members that I am not and don't want to be privy to.

About cliques - (or as we called them in High school, which this is all starting to remind me of, "cleeks") I have been welcomed by newbies and "oldies" alike, and I am proud to consider some of the "old guard" among my closest FT frends. As in "real life" I like some people more than I like others. It doesn't seem to be a problem. Where cliques come in for me, is where people use FT for what I feel are inappropriate purposes and gatherings. In my mind, if I post an FT event or respond to a posting about one, I assume al FT'ers are invited, and I take my chances like anyone else that some people there may not be my cup of tea. To me, one of the great glories of FT is that anyone is welcome to participate and I have learned or shared something form just about every FT'er I have met. But I have been privy to several instances where a get together is posted on the board and then all the other arrangements are made privately, shutting out people who might have wanted to attend. That's where cliques seem dangerous and exclusive - NOT the fact that some people have been on FT longer than others and may have opinions on things.


Same thing sometimes happens in chat - I am a relative chat newbie and I notice sometimes people come with questions and we're too busy gabbing to answer. Not a lot and not everyone - but I admire people like dhammer who always go out of their way to make newbies feel like they can get questions answered. I sometimes feel like an outsider in chat cause I just started and don't know everyone's name (and that most chatters who don;t know me think I'm a guy but that's another story) and I appreciate it when chatters help me and others feel more included. And chat is the great equalizer - I now feel like an old timer and it doesn't take long...

I'm not sure what my point is (surprise) except to say I haven't experienced the old vs new split some have and have taken to heart. But I have experienced some of the unpleasantness of cliques, and people talking out of turn about each other and that saddens me...


edited for usual lousy typing - is there a macro I can add to say that on all my posts??


[This message has been edited by squeakr (edited 03-19-2002).]

YES, just put it in the "Signature" field in your profile http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Uli (edited 03-19-2002).]

Studley we'll definitely have to do shots when you are in the area and yes, there is a Redondo/Hermosa Clique but it's open to anyone.

The other FT clique that I am in is the Staples Center Clique that only Auh2o, Stimpyand myself belong to.

Go CLIPPERS!!!
Go Kings!!
Go Lakers!

I need to take a nap now.

my daughter Maria (and her boyfriend) are members of that stimpy Kings/Lakers-clique too.

Get ready, 'cause in mid-April, I'll be back! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif



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The perfect ladies' man is a perfect gentleman.

arturo es knot well-nown mimbir of ol' timr's. butt, yu sea, arturo haz bin 'roun hear sense hiz luv wengliss, an hiz luv punki wer li'l senoritas. sew, mebe arturo es en klic, or mebe he knot butt, et feal reel guud.

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Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.

Arturo, I'll be in a clique with you any day, buddy! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

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The perfect ladies' man is a perfect gentleman.

[This message has been edited by studley (edited 03-19-2002).]

arturo knot kno yu, steed hombre http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/cool.gif butt arturo shoot agave joose wiff enywon, enywher, enytim.

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Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving.

I'm not big on rumors - except those that deal with Delta extending their double miles promotion or another airline changing their upgrade policy. So please understand, there is no old, there is no new, you are all equal in my eyes. Time to put to rest any idea that FlyerTalk has some sort of elite-level membership. While one day i'd like to have the time to put together a series of special benefits and other privileges for a "plus" membership to FlyerTalk, that day is still days away. From all else that i've seen, you're really only as good on FlyerTalk as your last post. So let's return to the best topic on this board and see how good and valuable you are.

I don't know about cliques, but i know we have a few staunch Democrats and Republicans here among our US membership......even a few ditto heads.