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Over and out.
Adios folks. I am tired of wasting personal bandwidth on Ozstamps Talk. Life is too short.
Folks will notice I'm no longer on the list for the Catman Do. I hope my spot can go to someone who can enjoy himself/herself there. I cannot. Some may call me a coward for it - so be it. But I can't go to an event and "make nice", and I would rather cut off an appendage than disrupt Catman's event. I have tried to take a Voltairian stand (disagreeing with what some may say, but defending their right to say it), with a lot of this foolishness, but lately I've grown tired of it. It is painfully apparent to me that these battles are the price to be paid for using Flyertalk, and frankly I'm not willing to pay it anymore. Oz. You exhibit sociopathic behavior. I seriously recommend you consider some kind of counseling. Every flame war exhibits the following pattern. It has become clockwork. The spark Someone posts something. Oz lights a match with a snotty remark, or takes offense and launches personal attacks. My post count is larger than yours. Oz begins his “Don’t you know who I am?” campaign. He points out how a few of his posts have the highest number of replies, and challenges the others. He claims his posts are more important, helped more people, etc. Who Dares Question the Great and Powerful Oz? Oz berates anyone daring to question HIM. Personal attacks zestfully posted. He has met Randy. They are best buddies. In fact, he can personally vouch for Randy’s sexual orientation! Do as I say, not as I do! Start accusing others of the high crime of multiple identities. Note: Only a high crime when OTHERS do it – not a high crime by Oz. The crusade to “out” imposters will never lack a standard bearer with Oz around. The silence is deafening... Oz points out the silence of others as proof he is right. Or he points out the silence of others as proof that the other person is wrong. Or he points out the silence as having some quasi-mystical power which makes him omnipotent King of FlyerTalk. Don’t trouble me with facts, I’ve made up my mind. Oz ignores points he cannot rebut, and widens the argument into new areas, especially by infecting other threads. Challenges others on meaningless (to the discussion) things like how much charity work they do. Declare Victory and Retreat Oz decides to declare victory, pompously pointing out he is going to take the high road and not responding any more ... but not before having the final word. More farewell performances than Barbara Streisand Despite the promise not to post any more on a thread, returns to throw a little more gasoline on the fire. Declares victory again. Repeats as often as necessary. Who, me? What did I do? He then shrugs his shoulders and wonders why everyone is getting so worked up on other infected threads. Asks Randy to close down the threads in the name of civility. Thank God for Oz, the voice of reason. We don’t need no stinking moderators Oz becomes amazed and appalled when others begin to wonder publicly whether moderators might not be in order. Points out how Randy considers him the best FT’er and wishes he had more like him. After all, he has met Randy. They are best buddies. In fact, he can personally vouch for Randy’s sexual orientation! Cult of Personality Come meet the great and powerful Oz. In person, he’s oh-so-charming and witty. Of course so was Adolf Hitler. I hear Joseph Stalin was fun to drink with. And let’s not forget Idi Amin – what a card. So long folks, it's been a lot of fun. ------------------ "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own." |
I'm gonna have to print the above message. Classic, hilarious, and right on the money.
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We need another forum Flyertalk Entrances and Exits or at least someone maintaining a scorecard. This is getting way too confusing for those of just wanting to talk travel. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Sorry to see you go Jon. Hope you reconsider. |
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Jon,
I usually want to puke when I read the "Exit Posts", followed by the obligatory "Please don't go" posts. I don't know, I'm just not into emotional games. However, I don't think that is what you are doing here. Although you and I haven't met, I truly appreciate your input on the CO board, and have benefited from your presence/advice in the past. I completely understand your feelings about the OZ situation, and feel almost exactly the same way. I won't try to change your mind, but I will say that you are always welcome on the CO board, and I would still be interested in trying to catch a couple ball games this summer if you'd like. Mike [This message has been edited by mws (edited 02-28-2001).] |
Jon Toner, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
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Jon, you are among the best and the brightest, and I can’t make you do anything, I can only control what I do, so here it is:
Oz, you have made some contributions (much like a broken clock that is right twice a day), but there is so much noise and garbage that I will institute the following protocols: 1. I will read no thread that you start; 2. I will read none of your postings, merely skipping them over; 3. I will answer none of your email; 4. I will not attend any event that you sponsor, nor will I communicate with you should our paths meet; 5. I will turn my back on you and shun you entirely. You are, to me, a non-person. I would, however, be willing to organize a “post drive” so that anyone can donate their posts to you, thinking that when you reach the magic number that is in your scary head (a million? A billion?) you will retire from the field. Note to Randy: please donate all my posts to OZ...Naked I came into FlyerTalk; Naked I shall return. When I say that I’m done with you, I’m done, so fire away if you must, I will not retaliate or respond. If I argue with a moron it becomes hard to tell the difference, so why bother. I humbly apologize to any FT-ers who I have trespassed against: past, present or future. I take solace in all the friends and nice FT experiences that I have had, so I will, to quote the song: “accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative”. Jon, I greatly hope that we meet someday soon. |
WOW!
Jon, don't know if you will ever read this but that was an amazing post!! Well written and thought out!! Sad to see you go but can totally understand. Dorian ------------------ The Global Lounge Project - open source airline lounge listings flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel tips The Star Alliance RTW Price Chart - by Dorian The Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart - by Blondebomber |
Jon Toner: Au revoir mon ami...
The really sad part of this is that everyone concentrates on the effect (disruption of the boards) and never about the cause: oz. What a dishonorable, disrespectful, piece of excrement... And even more sad (sorry -- pathetic is the more appropriate word) is that our host seems to care not one friggin' wit about enforcing the terms of service we all agreed to when we registered to become part of this community. We're locked in to attending the -Do -- and I apologize in advance for whatever disruption I will cause... [edited to change conditional tense in last line...] [This message has been edited by onefreeman (edited 02-28-2001).] |
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Onefreeman...thanx for my 1st good laugh of the week! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Dorian! |
Brilliant Jon.
But why do we all have to go? Why can't we vote OZhole off the island? |
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Originally posted by cigarman: Brilliant Jon. But why do we all have to go? Why can't we vote OZhole off the island? |
Sorry it has come to this, Jon. If all the good folks leave FT, who are we left with?
Look at the damage one man can cause. Can you see him sitting back in his chair and laughing at the computer screen? Some people crave attention, and even a mention of his name in disgust somehow delivers satisfaction. So the question is, WHY are we giving him all this attention? If you're as fed up as I am, then for goodness sake, DON'T post anything about him! Don't even mention his name! Don't say you won't reply to him, just do it! If he loves to use silence as his ally, then use it against him. Don't bother voting him out, don't bother shutting him down, don't waste the energy talking sense, its not worth it. Just ignore, not one reply, not one word. |
Jon, so sorry to hear your decision, but I totally understand. I was looking forward to finally meeting you at CMD III, but you must do what's right for you.
I have stayed totally out of the 'fray' for the most part, sifting through the s**t, but you're right. Why should we have to do that? Trolls need food; some people here love to feed trolls & can't resist. I'm joining Jailer in his treehouse, and all my posts can be transferred to anyone that wants them for their Badge of Honour... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif Move over Barry, I'm comin' up the ladder. |
I, too, would gladly donate my meager number of posts to anyone who wants them if it will stop this. My experience as a mother of 3 and a grandmother of 7 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif tells me that the only way to impose a "time out" is to absolutely ignore the offensive behavior. Even well-founded responses are reinforcement.
Jailer's suggestions of not responding, not reading, etc. are good ones. If every post OZ makes is the last one in that thread, there would be no more of this. I'm not much of an organizer, but this idea of Jailer's shall become my own personal contribution toward a reversal of such pervasive acrimony. Jon - check back in - if we're disciplined, this could stop. |
Jon, my heart is broken! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
It is NOT your fault! You know that. But Flyertalk will be a less civil place without our resident psychiatrist and philosopher. Most of all, my heart is broken that one of MY FRIENDS will not be at my DO. You will absolutely be missed. Remember, you are always part of the Flyeratlk family and I hope you reconsider. I remember a certain philosopher from MASS telling me to reconsider quitting the boards for good. I await your return when you see things are right again. |
Jon- hopefully your "leaving" will relegate you to lurker level so your insight, thoughts and knowledge will still be available to FlyerTalk.
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Brilliant and 100% accurate Jon.
Jon, I hope that someday you will reconsider this decision. I also hope that someday, FT can be free of the noise that has driven you away. Randy, How many more VALUABLE contributors need be driven away before action is taken. One loud noisy voice is drowning out much of the good in FT. |
Well Jon Toner has summarized it all, and very well. Thank you
It is with regret that I am following him, at least until something is done. I have appreciated the many contributions; I personally have learned a lot; it has been fun- particularly during the $27.98 to Paris thing- but I just simply cannot stand it any more. Ignoring Ozstamps does not work, not ignoring him does not work either. The owners of this board appear to be either unresponsive or even appreciative of the divisiveness he has brought. People who refuse to address the issue by attempting to kill threads are just putting their heads in the sand. I could go on for a page, but I think the events of the last few months speak for themselves. It's too bad. I am sorry to have to let this go, believe me I am REALLY sad. Bye guys. [This message has been edited by Droneklax (edited 02-28-2001).] |
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I too am sad to see Drone and Jon leave. But I don't blame Oz. It's a free society and there will always be things we don't like. Baseball is a good analogy. We hate the millionaire whiners, but we still love the beauty of the game.
Personally I've never seen anything objectionable from Oz since I don't read a lot of lengthy United threads. Also I don't usually read any thread that lacks an intriguing title. But if and when I do open something I don't like, it's pretty easy to hit a button to remove it from the screen. I'm not going to give up on Flyertalk because of some problem posters. [This message has been edited by stimpy (edited 02-28-2001).] |
Echoing stimpy with whom I agree, while I feel I understand Jon and respect his opinions greatly, I think Jailer and Indurain have particularly raised good points and even methods to deal with what they (and not necessarily I), see as a real "problem."
Yet, it takes two to tango - or to fight! The constant complaining and incessant bickering are manifestly as troubling as the "problem" itself, insofar as I'm concerned. I'd like to think that we collectively are somewhat compassionate. If Oz possibly has a problem, we should try to help him and not throw him away. We should not all bail out on him, or on our host, or on the party, IMHO! Even if he is perhaps wrong! Oz's judgement was at times less than stellar- by his own admission. And at times so was/is mine! And surely many others - perhaps! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif So? There is plenty of blame to go around - but why bother with even attributing it? To what end? There are more important things - like miles and points http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif - and LIFE itself! C'mon everyone, let's all take a deep breath and give this some thought- ideally with a somewhat positive spin! His former apology was inadequate in the view of some, but I do believe, perhaps naively, that Oz is actually well intentioned. I feel, and I do not speak for him, surely, that he desparately wants to contribute to FT and to be accepted by FT'ers! Perhaps if he had been made to feel more as if he had been an accepted contributor in the past, this entire episode might well have been averted. He would perhaps not have fallen into the trap of constantly trying too hard to prove himself in my view. I believe this has been mistaken as him constantly seeking adulation. There are many reasons to depart - as there are many reasons to stay. I think that there are surely FAR more of the latter. I'd hope that we could perhaps all see and emphasize the latter - and remain! If not, perhaps a brief vacation could invigorate oneself! In any case, let's please all be sure to try to put the "fun" back into FT! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif -Just my 0.02 |
I agree with Stimpy.
I just ignore what I don't want to read. This board does get a little childish. My son sometimes gets in trouble for pushing, shoving, and name calling but....he's 9. |
jon 'muscle' toner,
arturo agre wiff yu an arturo mey reveel hemself an leaf, two. butt, arturo giting reel tired of awll ozsheets stamps. ownly reesin ozsheets hav moar posties es thet he excremint errorgance an peepl knot lik et an they argu bout et an ozsheets tern hemself entwo herow. ozsheets, yu doo knot howl et the moon. pls goe ther fore arturo an evrywon. Hi, wengliss, wher yu bin? |
I have taken some time to think about Jailer's suggestions.
Excellent suggestions, but I would like to play the Devil's Advocate if I may. 1. I will read no thread that you start; This is easy. My only reason for reading one of these threads would be to correct the accuracy of one of his statements. If we do not do this, FT could very well lose more of it's credibility. 2. I will read none of your postings, merely skipping them over; This one is tough for two reasons. One is the same as the above answer. The other is his penchant for attacking ones who take a position he disagrees with. In the past week he has attacked cactuspete and wharvey. What would they think if nobody came to their defense. If we stand idly bye as Ozhole attacks other members, we are no better than he. 3. I will answer none of your email; Very easy. Luckily, I am no longer on his Mass Spam e-mail list. 4. I will not attend any event that you sponsor, nor will I communicate with you should our paths meet; Also very easy. This should be practiced at the DO. I will have no communication with him. Period. Hopefully others will do the same. 5. I will turn my back on you and shun you entirely. You are, to me, a non-person. See answer to 4. Jailer, Ignoring a bully does not work. The only way to show a bully for the coward that they are is to stand up to them. We as a community need to stand up to this bully when necessary. If IT attacks another member, we need to stand up in their defense. Other wise, the ignore option is perfect. |
I am sorry to read your post Jon, and do hope you'll reconsider. I honestly feel that 95% of my postings during 2001 have been flame free, and the other 5% involved the user Camera Guy inciting the inevitable responses, often resorting to outright lies to do it. It always takes at least TWO to tango. What went on in latter 2000 is history. No it was not nice, and yes, it often was involving me, but everything moves on, and many, myself included, learned from it, and no-one wanted to see it re-occur in 2001.
A wide array of FlyerTalkers used fake IDs latter 2000, myself included, and many admitted to it, myself included, and many prominent FT'ers did NOT admit to doing it, and are still anonymous among us. So be it. Raking over those coals serves little purplse as what's done is done. Turning on the IP Logging has kept fake users down to 2 or 3 instances I have seen during all of 2001 .... and all were quickly detected and disicplined by FlyerTalk staff. And none were me, or had anything whatever to do with me. Camera Guy has a stalking obsession for any post I make. If that keeps him amused in his spare time, rather than talking flying and points and positive advice, so be it, it is a free country. Basic checking by anyone here will show Camera Guy more than I has been the main toxic force on FlyerTalk in 2001 by using this tactic, as it often incites others. If anyone cares to check his posts over the past 2 months this will be shown as correct and may surprise many. His posts are mostly attacking me, and serve no positive purpose whatever for FT or other FT'ers except to start and keep afire flame wars. And then make the above sanctimonious posting. Go look - it is very disturbing behaviour for a man to say this below on a thread today, when his own "contributions" re points or tips or flying advice to any others here on FT are self evident: Camera Guy said about ozstamps: "For some unexplained reason, some members here think you contribute. I disagree. I have seen no evidence of that AT ALL". ------------------ ~ Glen ~ |
Let me say hi to wingless also. (What? No number?)
To paraphrase Frank Baum, I rarely pay attention to that man behind the curtain. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif |
Arturo
I have been around. I rarely read FT anymore. I communicate with several FTer's regularly via email. Besides, you stood me up last year and I have been heart-broken ever since. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif |
RichG
I no longer have numbers because I wanted to be upfront and reveal my true identity. Besides Randy changed it from "Junior Member" to "New Member" and I may be junior but I am certainly not new. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif |
I just realized that it has taken me 2 years to make 100 posts.
I guess I am falling behind. |
Now that we don't have Junior Members anymore, the whole purpose of you having numbers is eliminated ... though you might have to switch again if you don't want to become an FT Evangelist at 250 posts http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
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Sorry to see you go, Jon Toner, but you can take solace in the fact that yours was the best exit post ever.
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arturo es kwik to point out that ozheets postie wuuld be ok ef he jus use the furst sintinse an leaf evrytheng els out. awl the rest aftr the furst sintinse es excremint errorganse an thet wat ensite peepl.
arturo bee 10-10 an listening en. |
Señor Jon Toner,
Veo que su primera palabra es adios. Si ésa es su decisión final, después Arturo está entristecido. " puede el dios estar con usted en todos sus viajes ". ------------------ Loving, Caring, Honest, Intelligent, Empathetic, Creative, and Giving. |
Since Oz has decided to post the pretty much the same long winded rant in another thread, I will link that thread so that anyone who cares can see my resonse.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum.../000175-2.html |
Originally posted by onefreeman: We're locked in to attending the -Do -- and I apologize in advance for whatever disruption I will cause... - Earlier, I said I was just a peripheral member here; now I'd like to say if I may resign from the august company, I shall do so. That doesn't mean that I'm turning my back on the flyertalkers I've met, you and raeban as much as anyone. Shall we get together for drinks and a baseball game soon? E-mail to follow. |
We hate the millionaire whiners, but we still love the beauty of the game. It might make an interesting exercize to apply Jon's analysis to Oz's post in this thread. I feel your pain, Jon, I really do. But dealing with Oz is the price of freedom of speech. Just as dealing with Jesee Helms is the price of Democracy. The only thing that keeps discourse from falling to the lowest common denominator is sheer will and restraint. I suppose some of us suffer fools less gladly then others. For me it is sometimes harder then other times. When it gets real hard (like when I think that unless I flame back he "wins") I literally have to turn off my computer. That seems to do the trick. |
Beckles
At this rate I will not be a FT evangelist until August 2003. By then I will have clicked my red shoes and returned back to Kansas. |
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