Say, btw, on the foul and ref concept:

The Rise of the Robo-Ref
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/25/magazine/25NBA.html

If you will all read the posts above between BIM and Dorian, then you will see what this board has turned into. Pretty much everyone has taken something out of each post to twist it around and fire back flames at the writer. This board used to be fun to read and as you got to know the others, you could poke good natured fun at them. Now you can't even post something without being PC and even then someone is going to find something to blast you about.

I made a comment last night regarding if it wasn't for Rudi and Catman, this board might not be here for us to enjoy. I was told that my post was irrelavant. For those of you who don't know, it was those two guys who got the board started again after it was shut down due to the abuse that was posted. I was not a part of the first FT but I started lurking soon after the second FT started up. I am proud of the friends that I have met here and will back them up on their choice to leave. I will probably still lurk but will probably not post anymore as I don't really care to be flamed. Everyone has a right to their opinions and expressions and I can respect them but I don't have to agree with them.

Just letting out my sober 2 cents.

newself:

First, let me state that I agree with your overall premise, and you have every right to comment on or about the status of FT. Free exchange of ideas and or information and the opportunity for respectful discussion/debate/dialog is the ONLY reason that a BB like FT is worth the electrons it occupies. When a disagreement between a few spills over and effects the many, that's very bad news.

Mr. Dorian and I had a misunderstanding, nothing more, nothing less. Minor difference of opinion. Responses were undoubtedly exacerbated by the timing of recent events. Happens every day. I give him the benefit of the doubt that he feels as I do, as he has not recently posted on this thread.

I make no apologies for my opinions, nor should he, nor anyone else on this board, as long as they are respectful. When that line is crossed, problems occur...



------------------
Take a deep breath, and remember what's really important...

Hold it...you gotta understand my personality (as many on the AC board do)...

I am cut and dry and don't mind (have never) posting stuff that offends, criticizes and in some people's eyes is downright not nice.

BUT, I am also the exact opposite as well. I have some very good friends on FT...we share posts, ideas, emails...we catch up when/if we can at an event or city. I am VERY giving and will go out of my way for someone in an instant...even having never met them.

What I wrote to BIM above is who I am...I didn't change cause of FT. Sure...maybe I am posting more regarding this fiasco...but that is because I believe an error has been made by the owner and managers of the board (see my thread in Randy's forum: Could this have been helped?).

I am just me.

Dorian

Oh ya, one more thing: I'm VERY oppinionated!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif

Dorian

I'd never have guessed... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

Actually, I was @ a dinner party in ZRH in Dec and said to an unknown lady near me:

"Actually, most people think I'm an extreme a*shole until they get to know me...then they consider me one of most geniune, giving and reliable people they know."

Well...that was quite the conversation starter!!!

She asked me on a date at the end of the night!

Dorian

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The Global Lounge Project - open source airline lounge listings
flyers'places - restaurant, bar & hotel tips
The Star Alliance RTW Price Chart - by Dorian
The Star Alliance Gold Comparison Chart - by Blondebomber

[This message has been edited by Dorian (edited 03-02-2001).]

Sorry, Punki, with all due respect I must disagree (and I hope you'll forgive the editing I did to the quotation of your post to keep the emphasis).

You're absolutely right that this works for some people - indeed, for most. It is, after all, the main way we socialze (civilize) children. But - it does not work on everyone, e.g., sociopaths and certain others.

If you had a nice home, and a stranger came in and defecated on the rug, you might ignore it. You might even try to explain to the stranger that such behavior is simply unacceptable, and that while you love him personally you hope that he can see fit to conform his behavior to civilized norms.

If the stranger continued to defecate on the rug (notwithstanding his promises of reform), there would probably come a time at which you would either ban him from returning, or if you were an extreme pacifist you might even simply leave the house to him.

In the first instance, if he continued returning and continued his unacceptable behavior and you called the sheriff for assistance, but the sheriff did nothing to stop the behavior, you might indeed abandon the house as simply unlivable. Or you might resort to self-help. In this particular case, self-help appears not (yet) to be available.

Sorry to be so graphic; however, to many of us what has been going on since June of last year (not exactly what I would call "of late"), despite our attempts to be civilized about it and to explain, urge, cajole, sweet-talk, etc. the offender, is the fuctional equivalent of what I described. In this case, we don't own the house, so our options (individually and collectively) for corrective action are limited.

Yes, Punki, there are still a lot of nice people on the board, but the number is diminishing at an alarming rate.

And I'm sorry to see it, but I fully understand.

FT is NOT a house where you couldn't escape an "intruder".

FT is a community of hundreds, where you simply will escape if NOT participating in flame wars with the sociopath(s).

I fully agree with PUNKI ... leaving is not a solution nor does it show "love and respect" for the other members of the community if you leave them alone - over just a few whose behaviour you don't like.

Punki, right on.

I've absolutely no idea what the big deal is, and don't particularly wish to search out the "root cause"

In the words of a valley girl, my response to much of this (and, BTW, much on the internet) is...

"WHATEVER"

BTW, hope you and Joe are fine after the quake...

JL

[This message has been edited by jamiel (edited 03-03-2001).]

Counsellor, I appreciate your anaysis, and I agree with much of it. I am not leaving, but I will say that I spend a lot less time on FT than I used to. I consciously try to avoid most of the areas where OZ posts. A week or so ago I reversed that policy and actually posted a couple fo things in response to him. Probably a mistake. I'm sick of his crap on our rug! I am a pacifist, but not that extreme of one--I'm at the point which Dorian spoke of so eloquently in dealing with a bully; I'm fed up. But I don't want to leave. I really value FT too much for that. I would like there to be some solution to this where FT would not be home to all the flame wars, suspicion, egotistical shouting and such that have grown up here since last year. But I guess if there were an easy solution, we'd have found it? Catman, I'd be sorry to se you go...

I remember when I first joined FT, how nicely I was welcomed, even though my first posts were duplicates, one in the wrong forum! Today, I'd likely be slammed so hard I'd never come back if those were my first posts. Luckily I got a chance to experience FT when it was a much kinder, friendlier place. That's still how I think of it. But it's really changing, for the worse, and I hope we find some way to better it!

Like many, I have been away for awhile. I only came in tonight after an e-mail took me to this thread. At first I lurked, then I posted, then I came and partied. Then, the flame wars heated up and I hibernated.

It is sad when things go astray. My first intro to the great people of FT was when Catman hosted a nice little dinner in MIA and I scooted over from FLL and met some really great people. I felt at home with people sharing the same interests. It gave me a fire and I jetted off to YUL and met more great people. DUS and the Altbier; ah, yes, more great people.

This board is made up of people. We are all a family, albiet somewhat dysfunctional at times. Everyone that has chimed in on this one has a good point; ignore, walk away, take the offensive. But different people find that different techniques work for them. Does that make any one method wrong or right? I doubt it.

At the end of the day how has the family dealt with the setbacks, the disappointments, the anxiety and the fear of the unknown? Why, they sat down at the dinner table and by bedtime all was well again.

So, maybe after the next family dinner at CDTIII life will return to some shadow of normalcy.

Peace, Love and Happiness, and, hey, Be A Sport

I thought about adding to this thread, but then I remembered Rudi's e-mail to Catman from this summer. It pretty much says it all. Please come back. And, if you do, keep this in mind...
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum95/HTML/000508.html

I still think the same!

I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but this is ridiculous. I'm a newbie to this board, but I began posting to message boards in 1989 and met my husband at a chat board party that I organized in 1990, so I'm not a newbie to message boards in general.

If someone disagrees with you or posts items that offend you, pass over them. This is *NOT* someone coming into your home and defecating on your rug. This is an informative website and sometimes, some people are offended by some things that people post. That's part of the first amendment right of free speech.

On the other hand, spam should not be considered free speech. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif Flame the spammers, ignore the rest.

FF