I had recently two flights with Hainan Airlines in economy - on a 2.5 hours domestic evening flight, a dinner comparable with "normal" european big carriers like LH, KLM etc. are offering on long-haul (not the european snack, e.g. a dry sandwich) was served, pretty tasty, even with 2 choices (beef or pork) - that was for only around 60 Euro. Air service on the "better" (read: non lowcost) carriers in China has improved a lot in the last few years. (Hainan Airlines is, for example, an official 4 star rated airline...)

Having more alternatives is always a good idea, and while it's true that at the moment factory workers can't enjoy such luxury rides, that might change in couple years. And I've token lots of inner China "fast" (not high-speed trains) like Shanghai-Nanjing (300km, around 2.5hrs) which are pretty much always full or close to full (Hard and Soft) while there are other alternatives on it too (Buses, slower trains) which are cheaper. (SHA-NKG in Soft on the fast connection is around 120 RMB)

More and more Chinese are willing to pay a premium for a comfortable and quick ride, and more and more can afford this. Certainly not all of them are business travellers. Not even the majority I would say. Leisure travel is expanding QUICK - and I mean quick for Chinese circumstances (Their "slow" is even faster what we here call "quick")

The whole project of "new" high speed train system in China is based in demand, not on prestige or anything else. This is a system which is mandatory for the further development of the PR. And so far, their progress is impressing.

It's not so much the cabin experience as the delays, crowded airports & their poor service offerings and getting to and from there.

Although I have only seen the capital investment and fare numbers (so nothing on maintenance, running costs etc) I suspect you are absolutely right that the line will not make a profit as a stand a lone investment

However, like many countries in the world, the extension of faster, reliable transportation links (and the trains can presumably move volumes of people more easily that air) promotes wider economic development which is difficult to quantify. On top of that, there is also the general economic stimulus generated by the initial capital investment in the project

Having said that, the pricing seems topside - the basic Y class Wuhan-Guangzhou is RMB1030 but significant discounts are often available (for next week there are plenty of tickets at RMB380 all in). So there isn't a meaningful pricing advantage to use the service and it will often be more expensive than flying. Flying is faster but by the time you've messed around getting to/from the airports it is probably quite close so why bother with the train? Sure, I might try it once for the experience but I've been on plenty of Chinese bullet trains (260km/hr?) and I suspect this will not be so different

nickyboy

Eye it on 2015 or so .. if our Legislator pass the proposal for "highest cost per KM" in history build out project

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_B.../KL10Cb01.html

Actually you may have chance to ride on CRH1 / CRH2 (Shikensen E2), the CRH trainsets ordered for sleeper unit (according to Chinese Wiki http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%92%...%BB%84#CRH2E_2)

It seems they actually put CRH2 (Shikensen E2) on the same line also (at least when I see it in news when they go online)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan%E...-Speed_Railway

While I agree on the Maglev, the Tianjin HSR seems make more sense ....
BTW ... take a look at history of Shikansen, they are not any better if without government bail-out (well sort of .. re-organization in other terms)

the GZ - Wuhan is only part of the bigger plan, which include GZ - HK, Wuhan - BJ and Wuhan - Shanghai

For rail projects its always not the rail itself to easily break-even (forget about profit), but it's enabling country-wide economy development, ease road / air traffic (which makes car travel faster) and the development of the rail itself to push employment etc... economist always complain how traffic jam contribute to lost of efficiency which slows the development of one place.

The next decade of China you will see China having High Speed Railway / Subway opening basically every year to ease the traffic due to economy development

Any idea on how the proposed Shenzhen - Kowloon link would be connected to the airport? Via the Kowloon terminus presumably?

There was a proposal on Hong Kong / ShenZhen Airport link which remains quite where all the attention now goes to the High Speed Rail. I guess you will hear news / noise again in early 2010 plan when the "Hong Kong Aiport 2030" master plan release if we are building 3rd runway or not (basically if 3rd runway the twin airport link is presumably gone)

The Tsuen Mun - Airport Link http://www.hyd.gov.hk/eng/major/road...tmwb/index.htm which enter final design stage, if remember correctly, emphasis on the highway development instead of railway, which for me it translate lower chance of direct train connection

From my own view, Hong Kong better off build the High Speed Rail + 3rd runway instead of High Speed Rail + Twin Airport Link,

With HSR, HKG --> ShenZhen will be 1 hour only by Airport Express + HSR excl wait time (Similar to travel on coach bus ?), and 1.5 hr to Guangzhou

However you will need to enter HK @ HKIA and exit HK @ Kowloon HSR station

Yeah the Tianjin line made sense for the Olympics. When the train is traveling 300+km/hr the people living in shacks along the line become a blur.

Actually the Tianjin - beijing section is part of the Beijing - Shanghai also... if you check those wikis...

For the noise pollution / change of life caused by living near fast train ... China don't really care about it... as you know in theory China is still communist country, we talk about the development on the race and the country and ready to sacrifice oneself for it ... LOL

There are plenty of situations where a train journey may make more sense. For instance, there are times of the year in many parts of China when weather conditions mean that air service is subject to delays and cancellations...and real-time info from the domestic carrier is tough to come by. The trains are more reliable, even the traditional non-bullet services. Another situation: Sometimes one's personal scheduling doesn't allow for the better part of daylight hours wasted in flights + security hassles + getting to/from airports, and an overnight train journey makes more sense and a better value as long as you are not overly tall and can't fit in the sleeper. Another situation: you need to travel with physical "stuff" that exceeds airline carryon allowances but due to amount, nature and/or valuation, you prefer to keep with you and not hand over to airlines' checked baggage. Solution = train. Another situation: you just want more space to spread out and wander when travelling, which is not doable on a flight. Another situation: you're a leisure traveller and want some time to practice your Chinese and trade stories with the locals. (Don't laugh, I know some expats who really benched up their language prowess by buying cheap hard seat and hard sleeper tickets to anywhere; on each successive trip they got more and more fluent. :D)

It's good to have multiple options. As for all the existing and this new bullet train, I believe all these are seats only without sleeper cars, and the designation is "1st Class" or "2nd Class" which is a departure from the traditional Chinese train berth nomenclature. The vast majority of average Chinese will be unable to afford this train in the foreseeable future, but this route/corridor probably does have enough business and upper class leisure travellers to not run empty. In my experience in China, I recall very few times I saw ANY form of transportation running anywhere close to empty. Mostly everything runs fairly full to completely full.

Of course as an economic standalone project, this bullet train doesn't make sense in the short term. Who knows about the long term? Subsidizing for the sake of prestige, follow-on economic benefit, or whatever reason you subscribe to is obviously not a problem for the Chinese government. It certainly makes a lot more sense than the Shanghai Maglev, which was strictly an ego-driven exercise in silliness.

I think the Shanghai Maglev could have been a great welcome greeting for travelers. The ticket price should have been adjusted to a rate that semi fills it up and discounted for travelers with same day boarding pass. The main problem is terminates in no man's land. If it stopped in Pudong near Jin Mao Tower then went on over to People's Square it would have really made sense.
I don't buy the arguement that route would have been impossible.

Whenever I'm in the presence of my MOR contacts and the Maglev topic comes up, they're quick to point out that its primary purpose was to serve as a demonstration of the technology (with the idea that it could be used on useful routes in the future). This is supposedly why it's route is 30 km (as opposed to 25 or 35); that was the amount of track they needed for it to show off its capabilities.

Obviously, the people that worked on the project envisioned that it would evolve into something more useful. The fact that that hasn't panned out (and probably never will) isn't really their fault.

German engineers: To reach maximum velocity and then stop will require a
track length of 30km.

Chinese Governement: OK

German engineers: a 30 km length does not place the terminus in a useful location.

Chinese Government: So what, its cheaper.

Yes. They tried the cheapest way. But it's not so bad now, as they've linked up the station the Maglev ends with the Shanghai subway system (I think it wasn't like this till relatively short time ago?)

If you know the timetable of the Maglev (as frequent traveller into Shanghai) AND have only light luggage with you, it gets you into the city much quicker than by taking Bus #5 or a Taxi.

But the Maglev is advertised very badly. I couldn't believe it when I've been travelling there the first time, but it's an absolutely shame. Even without a real "use", they might have marketed that "special" transport much, much better.

I'd like to check this thread in a few years, once the main connections (BJ-HK) come operational. I guess some posters will have to admit they're wrong by then :D

That connection was in place from day 1.

I think the original purpose of the Maglev line was always to connect Pudong to Honqgiao airports. Officially, local residents protested against alleged health risks regarding this extension, but this being China that could be an excuse for all kinds of background scenarios.