How to get a large amount of money out of China
 

In 2008, my deceased Chinese wife left what her family calls a Bill of Exchange in the amount of $18,000 in China for my son, who will turn 18 on May 19th of this year. They want to give the money directly to my son through a US bank (I am more than fine with that). I think they have it in a CD which expires on July 30, 2019 and want to transfer the money before that date. My son will be in China (Wuhan) from 7/6 through 8/4. I will be leaving 7/17.

I hope someone has some suggestions as to how to move the money -- Obviously, it will not be turned to cash. Thanks for any help that can be given.

Get the bank to do a wire transfer to his bank back home.

If the money isn't already in USD, I think simply pulling out cash might be the path of least resistance, though I'm not familiar with the fx scene in Wuhan.

I want to add that $18,000 is NOT a lot of money by Chinese standards (e.g. a friend of mine changed Y30 million to USD in Shenzhen last year at one of those liquor store places in less than 30 minutes).

That having been said, I personally dislike wiring more than $10,000 at a time from here to US banks. Instead, I wire to my HSBC HK account.

While that is a lot of money for your son, $Billions are wire-transferred daily. The easiest and safest way to accomplish this is to have whoever controls the account in China ask at the bank holding the funds what information it will require for a wire transfer and what its fees will be. Chances are that the cost is reasonable and the information will involve his name, address, a phone number, ABA routing number and account number. Most wires can be sent for payment immediately, in 4 hours or as long as 2 days. Unless he needs the money immediately, there is no reason to pay for expedited service.

Make certain that your son obtains the backup paperwork (that can be mailed/emailed) showing that this was part of your wife's estate and is a bequest. That may have tax implications for him down the road and it is best not to have to scramble for documents located in China should the need arise.

SWIFT codes seem to be pretty important these days, but are easy to find on Google.

Thanks for the useful replies.

I have several questions. One time about 10 years in the past, I received a check of about $12,000. However, the American bank wouldn't cash it because the Chinese bank had no correspondent relationship with the American banking sytem. (I might be using the wrong terminology) Has something changed or was I simply dealing with the wrong bank? [I seem to remember at the time it was difficult to find American banks that accepted transfers from Chinese banks -- maybe my memory is wrong]

It seems like if you have the bank routing number and account number, you are in pretty good shape as is the case in the US. Don't know what the Swift No. is, so if someone could explain, I would appreciate it.

Also, I am sure everyone realizes that $18,000 cash might not be much for China, but in the US that much cash can cause problems. The Vietnamese mother of a friend was recently traveling to Vietnam with $24,000 cash, and it was seized by the US government. I obviously want to avoid that problem.

1. For SWIFT codes, simply google the name of your bank, and include SWIFT in the search box
2. I still advocate withdrawing cash, and converting to USD (if it's not already in USD)
-you and your son could each physically carry 9k each
3. I rarely wire money from Chinese banks to US banks because I've had issues in the past
-these issues usually get resolved, but are kind of annoying

Best is to ask your bank in the US what information is required to wire transfer funds to them.
About the Vietnamese mother's experience, traveling with cash on you is a totally different matter. And even more of a problem if she failed to declare it. Limit is $10,000. Above this amount you need to declare it (in the case of cash on you).

Unless I am missing something, this is a Chinese national wiring money from China to a US bank. There should not be an issue. If the Chinese bank is able to wire the funds, it necessarily has access to the system. This is the value of the wire transfer vs. paper check. If the Chinese relative's bank is unable to wire, then the relative can find a bank which does.

There is nothing illegal about traveling with cash, the $18,000 must simply be reported to CBP on arrival and there will likely be questions about its source. Those seem entirely benign here and OP's son ought to have the documentation for the source anyway as he may need that later for tax purposes.

The starting point here is for the relative to ask the bank holding the CD in China whether it has the capacity to wire transfer the funds to a US bank and then what information it (the Chinese bank) requires.

"There is nothing illegal about traveling with cash, the $18,000 must simply be reported to CBP on arrival . . ."

That amount of money must certainly also be reported to Chinese Customs on departure (and perhaps also to transiting countries) and it may very well also be necessary to get other approvals beforehand in China or risk confiscation. Look into this closely.

"Please be aware, if persons/family members traveling together have more than $10,000, they cannot divide the currency between each other to avoid declaring the currency."

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...o-or-leave-the

They are not travelling together, OP clearly stated that..

I think this law would be very difficult to enforce, in practice, if two adults were traveling on different reservations. Basically, family members can be on the same flight without "traveling together".

@op If you visit the Chinese bank, and have reasonable confidence that they can pull off the wire in reasonable period of time, I suppose this might be the best option. However, if they seem clueless, pulling out the cash might make the most sense. That having been said, if you do pull out cash, you need to be sure you have a means to convert it to USD because CNY is almost (but, not completely) useless in the US.

Long story short - you won't be able to move all money at once, due to China's policy on foreign exchange control.

I would not suggest anything beyond legal...

It is a fairly complicated and costly process.

When a customer intends to cash a foreign check/cheque, the depositing bank will need to tender the physical check/cheque to the withdrawing bank for processing.

Because of all the complications and costs, not many banks are willing to do this.

Routing number is for banks within the Federal Reserve System. SWIFT is for international banking purposes, which is a necessity for international wire transfer unless the bank can accept routing number.

The U.S. law does not prohibit currency transportation. However, all transportation above valued USD$10,000 or equivalent must be reported to CBP by FinCEN Form 105 promptly. Your customs declaration is not sufficient (if applies).

Generally, there would be no seizure when you promptly report the transportation, even in a major amount. Seizure is generally a direct result of failure to report.

His son will be an adult by the time he flies back, so he can take 9k on his own without the need to report anything.

Making a series of transactions or entries/departures below $10000 to avoid reporting is in itself a crime.

1. Pull out the 18k in a single transaction
2. Keep 9k, and give 9k to the son

How is this a crime?

See link above you quoted yourself.

And why on earth should they be taking steps to avoid reporting: what do they have to hide.

Myself, I think taking cash is a bad idea for all sorts of reasons. But if they go that bad route, just take and declare the whole amount, no funny business.

The fact they are father and son is not relevant because they are different people, and both are adults.

I believe that the biggest problem is how you can get this money away from China, not how you can get this into the U.S.

I am not sure entrusting a recent adult for this kind of money is wise.

The money is clean. So there is absolutely no reason not to report it.

But with this much of cash? Yeah...it is a bad idea.

Not true.

In this case, because the father and the son will return separately. So it should be fine.

Nevertheless - CBP uses the same customs principal in dealing with this transportation - not $10,000/person, but $10,000/travel party.

So many people confused about the USA 10 thousand dollar thing? I can travel with a million in cash if I wanted as long as I declared it and have a reasonable explanation.

People are making this a lot more complicated than it is.
1- you can carry more than $10,000 as long as you declare it.
2- Despite exchange controls (limit to convert to foreign currency is $50,000 much above the $18,000) there is no problem to wire transfer finds to US. I have several friends who do this regularly to pay for tuition for their kids in the US.
These are the two simplest options for the OP.

Because many don't actually travel in cash, but plastic.

Nevertheless - financial institutions routinely import/export currencies into/out of the U.S. So shipping millions of cash is no big deal for CBP, as soon as the money is clean and legitimate.

intent - state of mind......;)

1. Section 5324. Structuring transactions to evade reporting requirement prohibited

(3)
structure or assist in structuring, or attempt to structure or assist in structuring, any importation or exportation of monetary instruments.

There is also the slight risk that US Border Patrol may decide to confiscate your money and declare that they suspect you of some crime. The risk should be small, but with cash, there is the risk of unwarranted seizure (temporary or permanent) that would not exist in a bank transfer.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...81aa65eb9b.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...d96f36e72a.jpg
U.S. Customs and Border Protection

If I were to give you 9k in hard cash, there is no way in hell that the US people would have a clue.

Don't forget that CBP has search authority at all ports of entry. In many cases, these incidents happen during a search.

Some of you who remember me from several years ago when I posted more often may remember that I am a lawyer. I know that trying to break up cash amounts to evade reporting it is a crime and nothing that I am going to consider messing with. Furthermore, I don't think carrying a large amount of cash is wise.

Unfortunately, most of my deceased wive's relatives are not that sophisticated and I will have to do most of the heavy lifting on my end. I will give the relatives my bank's Swift number and my son's account no. and ask them to present those numbers to the bank ahead of time. If we can wire it fine, if not hopefully we can take a check made out to my son.

I do know a former tutor of my daughter who used to work in banking and I will check with her and find out what she thinks.

So it's OK to commit a crime because you won't get caught?

I still fail to understand how giving his son 9k is a crime.

That having been said, I do think the wire transfer approach makes more sense. However, some banks are clueless about this stuff, so it's important to run it by them before trying. The check approach, by contrast, seems likely to fail.

I believe OP makes this very clear about this:

Yes, he is clear, but if his bank can't swing the international wire transfer (bear in mind that Wuhan is not Shanghai), hand carry might be the path of least resistance.

I once wired money from a bank in Nanning (smaller market than Wuhan, but also 2nd tier) to the US, and it took an entire month (and many phone calls) to process.

Yes hand carry the whole $18k is the path of least resistance, just declare it. Trying to game the system by splitting it between the father and son rather than declare it is illegal.

There is another option that may be easier. Have the relatives simply set up a regular Chinese bank account with a Union Pay ATM/debit card and put a daily withdrawal limit of $500-1000 equivalent. Give son the card. There are plenty of ATM's in most USA cities (as well as merchants) that accept Union Pay cards. Then he can just draw down the Chinese account from inside the USA and not worry about carrying wads of cash across borders. The interbank transaction will do the currency exchange, and son ends up with USD. The total of ATM fees in the USA for the drawdowns wouldn't likely be much different than paying the outgoing + incoming wire fees. And no need to do official documents or reports in the USA.

Pretty much every Chinese tourist visiting the USA accesses cash this way.

Jiejies approach is a good idea, but I want add that finding a fee free atm in the US is useful if you pull out cash 18 times. Most credit unions have them.

If the original cash was in CNY yes this would be sensible. However, the OP did not state clearly what currency the cash is in but the wording seems to suggest USD.

I also wasn't clear on what currency the cash is in, but I don't see where it matters. If it's in USD in some sort of format similar to a US-style Certificate of Deposit, it's not a big deal for Chinese to cash it and convert it to RMB then open a regular account with that. The other aspect I'm not clear on, is whose name is on the "Bill of Exchange." I had assumed it was one of the Chinese relatives.