Fly or Train?: Beijing to Shanghai
 

I am considering my options to get from BJ to Shanghai this fall. I am interested in 'business class' travel, which means either a first/business seat on an airplane or business class cabin on the bullet train

A few questions:

1. Am I crazy to consider flying? Is the train really the default option?

2. What site should I use to buy a ticket? It seems like fares from US-based sites are far, far more expensive than using a local, Chinese based site. I was looking on ctrip but I have never used this site and not sure how good the support is in event of a cancellation, etc.

3. Is it better to wait or buy tickets ASAP? Right now I am seeing first/business class for about $215 flying or $265 on the train.

Thanks!

Nothing shameful about flying. Unless you're very much into trains, nothing special about the train trip.

Ctrip and elong are reliable for purchasing domestic air tickets; fares are often higher on domestic tickets when sold overseas, so it can be advantageous to use a local website. Fare-wise, I'd buy the ticket three to four weeks ahead when looking for the best deal.

2 hrs 10 minutes
https://www.businesstraveller.com/fi...ess-class-.jpg

5 hrs
https://www.travelchinaguide.com/ima...0820111911.jpg

I would do the train. My recent trip took me 5 hours plus few minutes.

The hangup with flying (particularly BJ-SHA) is the unpredictable delays.

The photo was for high speed rail business class though, which costs about 2X 1st class or 4X 2nd class. 1st class and 2nd classes are not lie-flat.

I will take a train too. Please also allow time to buy (or even pick up a ticket for a foreigner). "Gate" closes about 5 minutes prior to departure and train usually leaves about 1-2 minutes EARLY.

~$265 is the business class fare.

I am the person who started the "my last bj-sh flight ever" thread shortly after hsr was launched, but I have since moved back into the plane camp because I get bored during hour #5 on the train, and the food smells nauseate me.

That having been said, for any Beijing trips during the next two months, I will likely use the train; flight delays are really bad in July/August.

With respect to early train departures, I used to cut it really close, and never once experienced this. Basically, if you catch Line 2 in jing'an at 220p, you can definitely make the 3p train to Beijing...but, you might need those final two minutes.

These days, I try to show up at the station 30 minutes prior to departure so I can load up on KFC. Note: I generally dislike KFC, but it is far superior to food on G trains. Business class is no exception.

That's what OP posted...business class on train. First/business on plane.
If you haven't ever ridden this train....I would take the train for the experience.

Nearly the same travel time but more relax and more predictable by train. Read this: http://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/201...shanghai-again
Check flights and prices on elong.net or trains on china-diy-travel.com

Train, wife from China,
'KFC Chicken smaller, but much better than train food..

If you do the commute often enough, flying is honestly better over the long run...just not during summer.

How about in September? Why all the flight delays?

Advantage of flying: The pure travel time is obviously lot shorter, but if you've get to PVG (SHA is better especially when you take the train from Hongqiao anyway) and in PEK need to get back into the city/South area, you'll easily take more time, even on a fully on-time flight.

Sure, you get to relax in the lounge at the airport, and while they're ok for 30 minutes wait (which you'll have, unless you want to to cut things really extremely close) it's not the best experience either.

So, for a train departure, I'd plan to arrive 30min prior to departure, for a flight, 1.5hrs (each giving 30min extra time - yes, with the train it's a bit less than 30min..) - that's one hour to add to the flight time (assuming departure from SHA)

Then, in PEK, if you've luggage, you'll have to wait a bit, and even if not, it will take a bit time to get landside. Then it's the train into the city.. another 30-60min in total to add to exit the Airport Express.. then you're about as central/down town as you're when you exit your HSR train.

So, that means you're about 1hr faster by aircraft if all on time vs. taking the HSR. Personally I like the HSR service, especially the one that only stops once (at Nanjing) and then goes direct all the way to Beijing.

Beijing and Shanghai have some of the worst records in the world. Besides weather, the air traffic is controlled by the military and civil aviation is not the priority. A flight on time on this route would be a surprise.

I did. I took business class from Beijing South to Shanghai HQ. It was very nice, but a little boring after a while.

I just like to make sure the other readers know that was business class in train, just in case they buy 1st class and find that 1st class is below business class.

Agree very much, exactly what I did on my last train ride from Hangzhou to Jinan - KFC.

Yes it is confusing. Maybe on purpose..."I don't travel first class".

https://www.scmp.com/sites/default/f...?itok=hpotrFRR

Then it wouldn't be something China-specific

The few times where there is a third, better than 1st class on train, I've always seen it marketed as "Business"

The Austrian Railways, which also have a better class above 1st class call it - TADA - Business class as well ;)

http://www.oebb.at/en/leistungen-und...komfortklassen

I think this has partially to do with international tickets and contracts (less so in the case of China, but probably also influenced by it) - train operators sell 2nd and 1st class tickets over various channels, they couldn't rename them to 3rd/2nd class suddenly.

After all, the 2nd class on a HSR otherwise being named "3rd class" would still be the same than a train having only two classes "2nd" class.

Only if EVERY train would have three classes, they could call it 1st/2nd/3rd, like it used to be long time ago in Europe (when they stopped 1st class service, 2nd became 1st, 3rd become 2nd)

So, if you've a product that is more a "niche" rather than a company-wide rolled out product, it does make sense not to rename all products.

Otherwise suddenly there would be plenty of trains sporting only 2nd and 3rd class waggons - don't tell me that wouldn't be irritating..

People booking "Business Class" on HSR know well what kind of product they're getting and that it's superior to 1st class (since it's more expensive, it's just logical anyway ;) )

I am sufficiently nerdy to retain data on my trips, and following are my insights wrt Shanghai-Beijing

-train is 6 hours, door-to-door, every time (as long as you don't avail of a 3-digit train)
-plane is 4.5 hours, door-to-door, when the stars are perfectly aligned
-this gives us a 1.5 hour delay cushion, which is pretty much the average during July and August, but during other months 45 minutes is more typical
-I'm cool with 2 hour delays because I've found decent places to hang out in both SHA and PEK
-5+ hour delays are a different story, though; they are hard to predict, but do occur
-@YuropFlyer: you mentioned PVG being inconvenient upthread, and of course this is true, but there is no reason to fly to/from there when Beijing is the endpoint; Hongqiao Station is in the same building as Hongqiao T2
-wrt the business/first/second class topic that often pops up in threads here, can we not simply put this issue to rest?

This is a good point - can you help me understand what the steps are to pick up a ticket (maybe bought from ctrip) for a foreigner/english speaker? Is this a difficult/time consuming process? Any tips/tricks?

Ctrip will give you a confirmation number. You take that number with your passport to the ticket window for picking up online tickets. (In smaller stations there may not be a special window set aside for this.) If you go to the wrong window, no doubt you'll be pointed to the right one.

Two caveats. Your actual passport number must match the number in the ticketing system; no match no ticket. Second, I believe ticket issuance stops some time before departure, and the computer just won't spit out the ticket after that. But I think the cutoff point may vary by station in China.

Watch this video. As you can see, it is very simple:

Excellent, thanks!

Do the train ticket prices fluctuate like with airfare or am I safe to book now for September?

Train ticket prices are fixed. I thought you can only buy a relatively limited time in advance, though.

On Ctrip Shanghai Beijing
today you can purchase tickets up to and including Sept 3.


http://english.ctrip.com/trains/?All...FYNsfgodCpsFAw

Yes, but while the train fares are fixed, I bought 2nd class high speed rail Beijing South to Jinan West tickets from RMB125 to RMB195 this year :(

Actually, HSR fares do float at times.

http://news.jkwrb.com/fgzsj/8873.html (in Chinese)

For us local's choice, you only take the flight in one of the fowling situation:
1. need to be there very early, flight could get you there around 10am, first train arrive after 12
2. need to leave really late, last flight is later than last train
3. company policy or for mileage.

Time wise, there will be about the same. So for leisure travelling mid day, either choice is fine. Train will be better if you've got kids, they could be free depending on age to start with, secondly, there are space for them to run around.

Experience wise, train is good as you could take flights anywhere else, but only china's got the most advance bullet train network.

service wise, J or F service between PVG & PEK are far better than any other domestic chinese route.

If you do have big luggage, then i guess fly will be easier as you do not need to carry the luggage through security, down all the stairs, on to the shelf that is not big enough for check in luggage.

I think some online agency may be able to pick up tickets for their ticketed travelers, but I never did that. So I am not sure.

There are a few points about picking up tickets:
* Travel doc/ID information must be an exact match as you mention.
* Must have confirmation number(s) ready.
* Some stations have a separate room to pick up tickets before entering the "real" station area. Some stations pickup areas are in the "real" station area but require the passengers to pick up tickets before entering security check. There are also stations that passengers can clear security before getting tickets.
* Passport holders must pick up from counter windows, and the lines can be long (from almost no wait time to an hour).
* If passengers like to pick up multiple tickets to avoid waiting in lines again, they can do that with a fee for each subsequent ticket.

For this route, prices are fixed. Tickets go on sale 60 days ahead.
The rail company is currently experimenting with fluctuating prices (based on demand) for d overnight trains between Guangzhou or Shenzhen and Beijing or Shanghai.

Did you read the article I linked to, from May, 2016?

It says, "此次调整後，包括京沪高铁，時速300公裏嘚动车组列车票价将根据淡旺季浮动." ("After this adjustment, including the Beijing-Shanghai HSR, fares of the 300 km/hour trains will float according to peak/non-peak seasons.")

300km/h, those are the semi-high speed ones I guess, with several stops..

I guess demand for those have shrinked since faster options became available (ie, when the fast ones are sold out, they'll also be booked during high times, but lower fares compared to the high-speed ones during slower booking periods should ensure that some people will pick them instead, I guess?)

Also, it's not clear to me if they will simply decide if day X / hour X / train X is "high season" or "low season", or if they'll indeed do dynamic pricing depending on how well it's selling. I guess with the sheer amount of trains, they'll opt for a system as simple as possible, ie by days..

While the Shanghai-Beijing HSR was designed for 350 km/hr operation, it has in fact been operating at 300 km/hr for several years. You'll recall speed was reduced on all HSR lines due to concerns about construction issues.

In any event, they've just increased the speed on some departures on that line back to 350 km/hr. These departures carry a surcharge.

But no matter, 300 km/hr or 350 km/hr, they're all HSR.

Which trains were speed up? I just checked Shanghai-Beijing on 12306, and the fastest trains are still 4:48 (G2, G4, G8). Incidentally, G8 is a welcome addition to the schedule because it makes it possible to work an entire day before leaving.

Regarding the decrease from 350 to 300, this happened after that accident in ~2010, and safety was the stated reason for the change. However, since that accident had nothing to do with the speed of travel, I have long suspected that saving money was the --behind the scenes-- reason. During testing of the Jing-Hu Line, I recall reading that some trains were run at very high speeds (e.g. 450).

During September delays should be minimal compared to Summer. I'd book an early morning flight and fly rather than take the train. Pick a two
aisle jet and you'll most likely have lie flats. On the train there is too much risk of getting the guy yelling into his phone for 5 hours or playing video games with the sound up and no headphones as your seat partner. Train in Summer or during bad weather and plane at all other times.

Hmmm.

Reports late last year said the 350 km/hr trains would be re-introduced this year.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_88f89f490102w1ox.html

It looks like that hasn't started.

As to why the original slow-up, of course it's possible money was a consideration, but you'll also recall fares were lowered a bit when the speed was reduced.

How do you locate the train # for the 350 KM departures?

If and when the speed's boosted back to 350 km/hr, you'll probably have to look at the duration and price to determine which trains run at that speed, unless they introduce a new prefix.

Note that this recent article suggests economics not technology is behind the delay in re-introducing 350 km/hr service:

http://news.wenweipo.com/2016/06/11/IN1606110035.htm (in Chinese)

I just took the high speed rail around the area, from Shanghai to Nanjing and back then from Tainjin and Beijing.

The only drawbacks of high speed is that there might be some really obnoxious people, I had a guy next to me talking very loudly on his phone. And the taxi line in Shanghai was 2 - 3 hours long so we had to negotiate with some dude to get a car and got ripped off (250 rmb to Doubletree Pudong)

1/09/2011 CRH380BL EMU Jinghu PDL 487.3 km/h (302.8 mph) TEST RUN

Remember riding the Beijing Tianjin line Aug 08, during Olympics, it was pushing in the mid 380s at the somewhat short duration peak speed portion of the trip. When two trains crossed it was scary.