Another first-timer to China (PEK)
 

Greetings!

Mrs. Alka and I are traveling to Beijing for a 13-day visit -- pretty much a once-in-a-lifetime trip for us. I've looked through the stickies and, quite frankly, it's a little overwhelming.

We arrive at PEK very late on Dec. 21, have the next day to recover from FRA-LHR-DFW-ORD-PEK (used four SWUs to upgrade on AA; thus, the routing), scheduled a small group day trip to the Great Wall on Dec. 23 and a private tour of Tiananmen Square, the Forbidden City, Temple of Heaven and a Tea Ceremony on Dec. 26 -- the basic tourist stuff. Other than that, we are wide open until our Jan. 3 return to FRA.

We're staying at the Beijing Hilton at 1 Dong Fang Road.

I'd appreciate any and all suggestions for trips, tours, sightseeing, etc. Our visa allows us two entries so I'd like to take a night or two to visit somewhere else -- Hong Kong (preferably), Tokyo, or whatever.

We'd like to visit the Terracotta Warriors and will make arrangements through Hilton's concierge to do that.

The biggest issue, and pretty much the reason for this thread, is my wife seems to have heard from anyone and everyone who has visited China that we need someone to guide us around anytime we leave the hotel. If there's ever been a problem, she's heard about it and thinks it will happen to us.

Can I get something from the China/Beijing experts to reassure her that basic precautions one would take when visiting any foreign city or country is more than enough for this visit? I'm finding it hard to overcome fear of the unknown (and stories of problems) with common sense.

Thanks for any advice, suggestions, ideas, recommendations, constructive criticism, or whatever, you can provide.

Warm regards,

On what -- for lack of a better word -- evidence, does she base this assumption? I honestly feel more at ease in China than any other country in the world. Granted, I speak the language and have spent 10+ years in country, but I host guests from abroad all the time, and have never heard a single complaint. Believe it or not, people born after 1980 who live in BJ, SH, and even Xi'an tend to speak decent English, pretty much as a rule... especially true for the well dressed set, which is easy to spot.

If you've read many of my other posts related to this topic, you'll know I feel about guided tours both in general, and with respect to the sites you've mentioned. But, I hate beating a dead horse.

Insofar as your side trip is concerned, check out the XIY airport wiki in order to get a feel for what's out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xi'an_X...tional_Airport

Basically, you can get from almost all of those cities back to Beijing, so XIY is your limiting factor (assuming you don't scrap Xi'an from your plans, of course). Bangkok could be a decent bet; just don't try to cram too much in because it would be a shame if 6 of your 13 days were spent in airports and on airplanes.

You've presumably already booked your flight: but you are a little cuckoo imo if you think that a 24+ hr routing in J will be more comfortable than a direct 10hr flight in Y, not to mention the extra cost!

I also think booking a tour guide, especially through the hotel, is rather unecessary and expensive.

We arrived in China not speaking the language, and although I would not say it is totally easy to get round -- asking directions can be quite tricky -- I feel completely safe in Beijing, as do my family.

It will be extremely cold in January, and the wind is very bitter, so wrap up warm. If it's once in a lifetime, you may as well try the GW, but I wouldn't envy you out there.

tb

I think speaking the language makes a huge difference.

That said, there's no reason you need a guide for everything, and perhaps not for anything. It's fine to use one, and you may get insights, but between English, hotels telling the taxis where to go, and a very basic phrasebook plus some sense of adventure, there's little to be concerned about going it alone in Beijing and other large cities.

If I were you I would not go to Hong Kong and back, or for that matter out of China. Tokyo and Thailand are worth separate trips at another point--use this for your once in a lifetime trip to China.

You should certainly consider Xi'an. Really no reason for the Hilton concierge to handle that--you can arrange a tour in Xi'an once you're there. Give the city a couple of days--one for warriors (which isn't a full day), and one for other things. Perhaps pick one other city to go to from Xi'an, and then return to Beijing before flying home (same route?).

As moondog suggests, air travel in China can consume a lot of time, between delayed flights and uncertainty of timing getting to the airport. Figure at least half a day to fly anywhere.

Yo! I just booked my trip with a lot of input from people here. I did choose Hilton Beijing at first but switched over to Hilton Wangfujing. I thought the price difference was huge at first, but turns out its really not much different. Its much closer to all the things you listed.

Hilton Beijing is an easier trip to / from PEK though. If you can swing it, I might suggest swaping over to that hotel.

How do you plan on getting to your hotel?

Hilton is running a 50% off promo for the next few weeks, the rate for Hilton Beijing is only 621RMB/night.

http://www.hhonors.com/thankyou

Great find!

I've been over there many times, always with a Chinese speaker but only once have we done a tour and we weren't happy with that--since then we've always done it on our own. (Note that while she speaks the language she does *NOT* know the areas we are traveling to.)

If I were to go alone I wouldn't be looking for a guide. The web will give you the information you need to decide where to go. Beyond that you need to have all the addresses you want to get to WRITTEN DOWN. Do not attempt to tell a taxi driver where you want to go, they're not going to understand you. Show them a card with the address and there shouldn't be a problem.

While the people in the tourist areas will speak little English they are at least used to dealing with foreigners who don't speak Chinese. Even when you get off the tourist track things usually work pretty well. When we are over there we normally mostly do our own cooking and I do at least 80% of the shopping--never have I seen any sign of a word of English being spoken there, the only time it's been an issue is when they moved what I was looking for.

No need for a tour guide in China but I implore you, if at all possible, to reconsider your flight plans. Even in AA's business class you will be absolutely knackered when arriving. You're probably going to be flying for over 30 hours, when you could get there in reasonable comfort in 12 hours by flying a European carrier with an economy extra type product. If you need business class look into Aeroflot thru Moscow, better comfort and service than AA and much, much shorter and usually around 2000 EUR round trip to China.

+2. The insanity entailed by the idea of flying from Germany to China via Dallas (of all places) didn't sink in until TB and you brought attention to it, but count me in complete agreement. I have flown between Europe and China in Y, and it's really not that bad.

FRA-LHR-DFW-ORD-PEK - FRA

Around the world.^

The only thing I found really difficult in Beijing as a non-Chinese speaker was the taxis. Have your hotel write out business cards with each destination you may want to go to so you can show those to the taxi driver.

I prefer to give people maps, circle places of interest, and send them on their way. This way, in addition to the driver knowing the way, so do my guests (Beijing's layout is about as idiot proof as they come).

Since Chinese people, as a rule, can't read maps (no idea why), I find showing a map to someone to ask the way fairly useless -- I tried several times my first couple of visits. However, I do agree with the passenger knowing the way being really useful. If one has an android phone, pre-loading an off-line map, with places of interest marked is absolutely invaluable, and doesn't require a data plan.

tb

One theory is their geography education mainly consisted of text with little study of atlases.
My theory is you don't need a map when your main form of transportation is a bicycle and now a traditional map is obsolete with a smartphone or gps.

Yeah, I've never understood why my wife is utterly inept with a map.

Peter Hessler’s "Country Driving"

Chinese Can’t Read Maps



These early Chinese maps were well drawn, but the fundamental approach was narrowly practical rather than scientific. They relied heavily on words rather than symbols. Landscapes were warped to emphasize whatever happened to be of prime interest.

It wasn’t surprising that rural people had little understanding of maps, but this was also true for educated Chinese. Even professional drivers with years of experience could be hopelessly confused by a simple atlas. Maps simply aren’t part of modern culture, despite the fact that the Chinese have an impressive ancient history of cartography.

“In China, it’s not such a terrible thing to be lost, because nobody else knows exactly where they’re going, either.”


http://stibrigade.blogspot.com/2011/...s-on-maps.html

Given my wife is the same, not sure that is due to race! :D

tb

Who said anything about race? My wife is China-born.

Basically everything that's labeled as related to race is really a cultural issue.

The implication was that people who grow up in China have a harder than average time dealing with maps. On this, I will simply state, "no comment."

Back on topic, when I made the map suggestion earlier in this thread, I had already considered the counterargument that gave rise to our current tangent (which I knew was bound to occur). Basically, if you have a map with your destination circled, even if the driver doesn't know how to get there based on the map, he should at least recognize the name of the locale... no different than the name of a hotel written on a business card.

People that grow up in China?

How about native Chinese.

IAre there some people we are missing here?

or culture then...

tb

One would think . . . .although I have had more trouble providing a map with the destination clearly named than a simple card. It's as if the map confuses anything else printed on the page.

Agree that we should try to veer back on-topic.

However, OP has not returned to thread, and is probably steeling himself for the journey ahead -- it's possible the routing was to ensure making EXP for 2012 -- a sort of MR with holiday tagged on. Having just done a mammoth work trip myself, which involved an even longer routing (but unavoidable in my case, unlike the OP), I can understand why...

Hope they managed to glean something useful from the thread: if nothing else, that China is not a scary place to be: yes, it can be disorientating to be illiterate again with some signs/menus etc, but for the tourist trail (and in general!), it's pretty visitor friendly.

tb

Back again -- sorry for the absence. IT has made it difficult to do much more than view the thread. (Darn those Dept. of Defense regulations!)

As far as the routing, well, I realize it's pretty insane. As a PLT flyer, I'm unable to earn SWUs and so, when I hit 2MM and received four of them, I decided I was going to get as much mileage (literally and figuratively) out of them as possible before their Feb. 2013 expiration.

The routing was the best we could get from FRA to PEK on AA metal. Except for the TATL segments for which we're still on the upgrade list, we're flying in F, something else I rarely get to enjoy when flying TATL.

Yes, we're spending beaucoup bucks for those free SWUs but, given our jobs and family situations, we don't think there will be another opportunity to visit China in the foreseeable future.

Unfortunately, with return flights scheduled for the next calendar year, my wife and I are unable to gain status as trueblu thought might be the case.

The thread has provided useful information and, for that, I'm very appreciative. I have a few additional questions as well as responses/clarifications that I'll make in separate replies.

Thank you all.

Thank you for the reply, moondog. I'm sorry I was unable to respond sooner.

My wife had spoken with friends who had apparently lived in China for a few years. She was told that we should have a local escort whenever we leave the hotel to guide us because of the language barriers, among other things. She also heard group tours are herded through souvenir shops and can't get to the intended site until everyone buys something. Plus, she was told we have to register with the local police upon arrival.

Even if all that were true, and if we could afford the private escort, where's the fun in that? I'm for the adventure in exploring a little bit of China, even if it means getting lost now and then.

I understand my wife's concerns, and I need to be mindful of not dismissing them outright based on the information provided by, in her words, "strangers on an Internet forum," as I want many more years happily living with her. But you all are experts in one way or another here and I feel I your suggestions and advice are to our benefit. But that's me; unless my wife hears it from someone directly....

We're going to skip making a side trip outside of China; you and drewguy are right, there's no point in spending more time than necessary getting to and from airports and on planes. We still need to arrange the visit to Xi'an and the Terracotta Warriors; I'll see if I can do that without having to go through the Hilton.

Thanks very much for the advice!

If you're staying at hotels, you don't have to worry about this because they'll register you. If you're staying with friends, registration is easy enough (they should no which PSB is responsible for them), but I usually don't stress this issue (call me crazy... no problems yet apart from a mild scolding once during the course of 12 years).

I must say that I'm a bit surprised by your wife's friends' paranoia because that certainly doesn't reflect the sentiments of any people I know. Perhaps they lived in a diplomatic compound, and didn't get out much?

Tried to change Hilton locations to that which you've booked but it was a no-go. Even more disappointing is that I can't take advantage of rdchen's find of a Hilton 50% promo (although I'm still going to do my best to get it).

In re. to getting to/from the airport, we've made prepaid (voucher) arrangements for shuttle transportation. It should be interesting as the flight arrives in PEK at 23h30, with customs and immigration procedures following, so the time we actually get to the vehicle will be well after that time.

Regards,

I would just grab a taxi... cheaper, and no need to stress about finding your driver.

We're staying at hotels so the police registration is apparently one less thing for my wife to worry about. Thank you for that info.

I'm not sure of the circumstances under which my wife's friends were living, and why they strongly made the escort/guide recommendation, but I'm pretty sure they were living in China as regular civilians (as opposed to DoD or diplomatic employees).

Two quick questions while I'm thinking of them --

+ We'd like to update friends and family with photos and notes -- is Facebook available or is that restricted?

+ As mentioned in my reply to tiblot, we arrive late but arranged prepaid shuttle transportation. Unless necessary to do otherwise in your opinion, we'll arrive without Chinese currency but will exchange USD the next day. Would I be better off having at least have some money in hand upon arrival? If so, I'll look to exchange at DFW or ORD.

Thank you again for the advice -- and patience.

Facebook, twitter, and others are blocked unless you have access through a VPN or, sometimes, your mobile phone. Email usually works, but gmail can be tricky. There's a thread for all the various issues that arise using the internet in China.

For cash, get it at PEK on your way out. When you exit the customs hall there are several ATMs immediately there as well as just past the usual throng of people. (You won't need cash before that.) Make usual preparations to alert bank, but the ATMs don't charge fees (your bank may) and are available all over the city. Taxi into Beijing at that time of night should be under Y100, or perhaps well less depending on location.

It seems that he's going to the Hilton; even with the nighttime surcharge, I'd be surprised if the meter+toll was more than y85.

Alka: If you can't live without FB, then consider getting a VPN for your trip (~$12). They are not all created equal, so do your homework.

I read the sticky about Internet access but, without having a VPN account, was hoping for a Facebook-style way to keep people updated on our activities.

We're avoiding use of credit cards and the DCC scam -- thanks to the sticky for that -- but credit card companies have been alerted to our travel plans just the same. I'll check in with the bank here on base to alert them to our ATM use. (Forgot about that as I rarely use the card in-country; thanks for the reminder.)

I had originally thought to buy RMB with USD cash instead of using local ATMs and was planning to bring a fair amount -- should I leave most of that money at home?

Thanks.

It's not like you can't function with the language barriers. Besides, tourist things tend to have signs in English.

I disagree with the until everyone buys something part of it but the souvenir shop stops are very real.

The hotel does this for you. It's only an issue if you're staying with someone and they'll have the Chinese knowledge to deal with it. While in theory you need the person's ID and evidence they can stay there at the PSB we deal with in Shanghai there has been no such enforcement. We walk in (she speaks the language) and get our papers without showing anything but our own passports. Last time it took us longer to find the office (they had moved it and we got some bad directions) than to deal with the paperwork.

We are, indeed, headed to the Hilton at 1 Dong Fang Road, North Dong Sanhuan Road. (I'm guessing the two roads in the address indicates an intersection.)

However, we purchased the shuttle transporation between hotel and airport as part of the travel package, so having local money is less of an issue except for the driver's tip. I would like to have some RMB in case we miss the shuttle due to a late arrival and end up in a taxi.

I've been checking out VPN providers so as to gain access to Stateside television content not provided/available to us in Germany. Maybe I'll pull the pin and commit so as to have it in China.

I would never count on a site like Facebook being available. I haven't tried to access it from China but big sites with user-generated content tend to be problematic.

There is currency exchange in the airport. I would expect you to get a better deal that way. When we have looked at exchange rates in LAX or SFO they have been terrible compared to what they are over there.

We always land with currency saved from the last trip, we normally don't spend any of it until the next day unless she's been asked to pick up something from the duty free. (Yes, you read that right--they have duty free stores in the arrivals area.)

I believe we can get around without too much of a problem -- common sense, written destination address info from the hotel, tourist sites with some English, etc. -- but I can't get my wife to overcome her fear on this trip. I'm hopeful things will go well the first few days and that'll set the tone for her.

As far as the souvenir shops go, we're pretty much planning to just say no except for some postcards and stamps, and a few silk scarves for friends and family. I hope.

As for the hotel registering us with the local police, must we surrender our tourist passports upon hotel check-in, or do they make copies and allow us to keep them?

Uh oh...better steer the wife away from the Duty Free. On the other hand, maybe some "safe" shopping will be just the thing to improve her mood after the insane amount of flight time she's just endured.

StrongVPN was recommended by colleagues here in Germany. The Web site's representative commented on the chat service they have "a lot of customers whose ipads work well in china."

I may find out just how well if I use them for VPN service.

Better get a blindfold. Got to go through it to exit airside.

the guantlet of sunrise duty free PEK T3

http://www.sunrisedutyfree.com/engli...j-t3-in-2.html