Shanghai: go or not?
 

Here's the deal: I might have the opportunity to go to Shanghai for business next April. Never been in Asia.
Unfortunately, my job will only pay for coach. Considering the 12+ hour flight with connections from BOS, I am not looking forward to that.

So my question, is Shanghai worth it?
If it is just a NYC clone with a bunch of skyscapers I'm def NOT interested. However, if it is a beautiful city where you get a great impression of China I might be interested, but I really need to be convinced...

What shall I do?

PVG: go or not?
 

Just my opinion, of course, but Shanghai is absolutely worth it. Great history along the river, colonial on one side, modern China resplendent on the other. Western when you need it to be, but plenty of local culture too. Trust me, you will never think you're in NYC.

Shanghai is not the most interesting tourist or cultural destination, but still well worth a visit, particularly if you've never been to Asia.

No-brainer. Even in coach. Especially if you've never been to Asia....

I spend a lot of time in Shanghai (here now, in fact), and while it's certainly not one of my favorite cities (e.g. to me, it feels MUCH more crowded than NY), I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to visit if I had never been before.

Moving on, I don't feel the need to sell Shanghai itself anymore at this juncture because there is tons of info about it in this forum alone.

But, I will offer two pieces of advice:

1) figure out a way to fly business class
-if your company is reasonably flexible, and you have a USAir account, between now and the end of the month, you can buy miles directly from them (i.e. you'll get an invoice that should presumably satisfy your finance people) for 1.75 cpm, which will permit you to get to Shanghai and back for less than $2000, all in (you can even make a RTW trip out of it, if you so desire)
-you can also simply procure upgrades somehow, but the above strategy is better if your company will go for it

2) consider tacking on a side trip (or stopover) to somewhere else
-we'll help you think of ideas as to "where" if you provide a bit more info about what floats your boat, and how much vacation time you can allocate to the cause (even a weekend would be sufficient to take in some amazing experiences)

I'm more of a DL person. Perhaps I spend money on a Y+ seat.

The business meeting in Shanghai will be Mo-Th, so I could add the weekend after and possibly the week thereafter.
Sites that come to mind to visit include the Great Wall (been to Hadrians' Wall), the Forbidden Palace, and the Terracotta Army. I don't know much about China, so not sure what else there is to see.

My company permits me to buy US miles, and expense them because we are frugal, but they still grasp the fact that I prefer business class to economy class. But, I realize this isn't an option for many people who are locked into corporate travel contracts. That having been said, if it is for you, business class (on pretty much every airline in the world) is superior to Y+ on DL, and $2000 is a very nice RT price (e.g. this summer, China-USA was running at around $2000 one way in Y).

Seconded.

If 10.5 hours is more tolerable, you can do BOS-SEA-NRT-PVG, with the TPAC part in DL's Y+. The 333 has 2-4-2 seating…in my view better than 3-3-3 on the 777. The NRT lounge is DL's best, with quite decent food to supplement or supplant what you get in Y.

Go, it'll be worth it, especially if you haven't been to China before. Shanghai is a big city but did not strike me as a NYC clone because of the historical, language, and cultural differences.

I've flown coach from Boston to Shanghai and other places in Asia plenty of times. I'm 6' tall with a 36" inseam and coach hasn't killed me yet. Since you're a Delta flyer, look into Economy Comfort if you want a little more room. If you have Gold or higher status you can get EC for 1/2 the cost, so it's not bad even if the $ comes out of your own pocket.

I'm 6'2" and will be FO by November of this year. I already checked airfare, but DL seems very expensive compared to other airlines. For instance, for my dates (the week after Easter) DL wants about $1700 while UA wants about $1200.

Just saw some photographs of "Guilin". It looks awsome!

If you go to Guilin area, skip Guilin for nearby Yangshuo. PM me for a recommendation.

Yup. Yangshuo is much better than Guilin.

I do think the Guilin/Yangshuo area looks terrific, but not sure if I should go there for a first-time China trip. Maybe the most practical itinerary would be to travel from Shanghai to Beijing via Xi'an, considering I have at most one week after being in Shanghai?
Also, can anyone recommend a good visa expediter with experience in obtaining Chinese visa for green-card holders?

Yes.

+1

+1

And I'm more of a UA person, though Y+ as I've read about it sounds good.

UA has E+ (Economy Plus - same seat but about 34-36 inch pitch v. 32 or so in coach. And you can buy E+, including my favorite exit row seats.

UA has a Buy Up to Biz for ANY fare, and it's $600 plus 20K miles each way (you can easily buy UA miles for @ 2.2 cpm), and I've done that when I was feeling rich. It's a nice ride on 747 upper deck with lie flat bed :D )

Old CO (now UA) has EWR-PVG or EWR-NRT-PVG on a fairly new 777 if you don't want to fly via West Coast.

Thirded.

EmailKid, a veteran of many TPAC flights in various seats, including many coach

Is that $600 total, or $600 each way? If the latter, I dare say it's not a very good deal, as long as US continues to sell miles for 1.75 cpm (used to be 1.2 cpm).

Like I said, I've flown in coach, and I've flown in Biz, though the last two trips were in coach because I didn't try to get an u/g. And the u/g isn't guaranteed unless there is R availability, so it usually clears at the airport :mad: And with my elite earning I get the miles back after the trip, so it's a wash.

OK, technically my last trip to PVG was in Biz as UA oversold the flight and upgraded elites, but the flight back was Cancelled :eek: :mad: :td: Got to fly Air China to KIX and 777 to SFO, where buy up was "only" $250 and 25K miles, but it was the old stlyle barcolounger Biz seat, so I passed and grabbed the only exit row seat left.

EmailKid

+1

Looks like I have the go-ahead. My provisional itinerary is as follows (April 14 - 27):

1) Arrive in PVG on Sunday afternoon.
2) Business (Mo - Fri). Most likely, hosts will organize a surprise half-day excursion sometime during the week.
3) Friday afternoon and Saturday to explore Shanghai.
4) Travel on Sunday morning to Xi'an for two nights.
5) Sunday afternoon, visit old Xi'an.
6) Monday morning visit the Terracotta Warriors, old Xi'an in the afternoon.
7) Travel to Beijing on Tuesday morning.
8) Tu - Fri to visit Forbidden Palace, Great Wall, etc. (suggestions?)
9) Flying home Saturday afternoon.

What do you think?

I think your plan is fine. For individual city touring plans, do a little search through this forum to get some ideas for what has been previously recommended. if you need to make domestic air arrangements for this, hold off a bit until early March. April flights with discounts should be in the system then. Post #2 of our Master Transportation Thread has more on this, including links to online agents you should use for booking. You may also want to try a Sunday morning bullet train from Xi'an to Beijing. The journey won't take you that much longer than the overall airport sequence.

Do a little more research on specific sights in each city and if you have more questions on what sights to choose, how to arrange them, etc., then post queries later. You have plenty of time to work this out.

I think you mean the Tuesday morning bullet train ;)
If you think that days spend in Beijing or Xi'an is not enough, I could always take the Saturday away from Shanghai. I just don't know how much free time I will have during the work week. Also, depending on what the "surprise excursion" will encompass. I will know more about that in a month or so.

Tuesday, yes! I must have been having a deranged moment there.... :o

Thanks for the answers so far.

It seems the bullet trains takes 5.5 hours (according to seat61) while the plane is almost 2 hours. Considering that I cannot read nor speak Chinese, I am not comfortable to wait until the last moment and buy a ticket at the train station. I guess I will need to stick with air travel.

While the Xi'an-Beijing train doesn't appear to be as fast as the JingHu line (otherwise, it wouldn't take 5.5 hours to go a shorter distance), the train is definitely worth trying at least once, and you can entertain yourself on your phone/tablet during the journey (no wifi on Chinese airlines yet). As far as buying tickets is concerned, your hotel can hook you up, or I'd be happy to do so myself (assuming I'm in SH during your trip).

On time sequence: you're not comparing the entire journey. Xi'an city to the airport can be as much as 1.5 hours' drive, then you need to be at the airport for check-in and security, an hour ahead. So that's 2 to 2.5 hours there, plus the flight, plus getting from PEK into town to your hotel (45-60 minutes depending on location). All total, you're looking at about a 5.5 hour sequence and that's if there are no air traffic or weather delays on either end...which is not a good bet to take with PEK as an origin or destination, where hour-long delays are routine. By comparison, the train station (Xi'an North) is in the city, as is BJ South station. Say 30 minutes in each city to get to/from station to hotel, plus arrive at station in Xi'an about 20 minute' before departure, and you're looking at total of less than 7 hours' sequence with almost zero chance of delay or weather disruption.

As to ticketing, why do you think you need to speak or read Chinese to get a ticket? :confused: The ticket for Xi'an-Beijing can be advanced purchased in Shanghai where you have host, colleague, or hotel to assist you, if you don't feel you can manage the purchase on your own.

Didn't know the airport in Xi'an is that far from town.
How about price? Is the bullet train competitively priced compared to air travel?

Same ballpark (around $90).

Yes, Xi'an airport is quite far from the central city, even by Chinese standards. Even with a lead foot driver and little traffic at midnight, it takes a full hour.

Economy plane ticket:
--Full price with tax, RMB 1230. (USD195)
--Typical discounted price with tax, RMB 600-900. (USD 95-140). Sometimes you can do a bit better, depends on exact travel date. Assumes purchase about 4-6 weeks ahead of travel on ctrip, elong, travelzen.

And I want to amend my post #25 above. Arrival on Bullet trains from Xi'an will be at Beijing West Station, not Beijing South.

G Bullet Train ticket:
--First class, RMB 825 (USD 135).
--Second class, RMB 515 (USD 85).

I found some photos online of the Xi'an North train station and the G-class carriages. Looks really nice. I am now warming up to taking the train :)
Do you think first class is worth the $50 difference? In Europe I always travel first class on AVE/ICE/TGV because I like the quietness and service compared to the overcrowded and noisy 2nd class.

Edit to add: There also seem to be "business class" seats on G-trains.

The "business class" (or VIP) seats are more premium than "first class" (yes, reverse of airline terminology). They are not worth the money.

As to first vs second class on this G train, I think you'll find it comparable to the situation in Europe as to population-density. But if you think Chinese first class will be club-lounge quiet and/or have no kids/families/noisy conversationalists, well it ain't so. On journeys of this length, I'd probably go for the first class unless budget is really tight. Go first if you're a physically big/tall person, the seats are roomier than first class on a flight. Second class train seat is perfectly surviveable though, if you'd prefer to spend your cash on a great meal or a nice massage in Beijing (like me!).

Slight chance of plans

1) Arrive in PVG on Sunday afternoon
2) Business (Mo - Fri)
3) Wednesday afternoon time to explore Shanghai
4) Travel to Xi'an Saturday early afternoon
5) Visit Terracotta Warriors and Muslim district on Sunday
6) Cycle city walls, visit Pagodas on Monday
7) Travel to Beijing on Tuesday morning
8) Visit Tianmen Sq and Forbidden Palace on Wednesday
9) "Backpackers Hostel Trip" to Mutianyu on Thursday ("odd_number day" :confused:)
10) Lama Temple, Confucius Temple, Beihai Park on Friday
11) Flying home Saturday afternoon.

What do you think?
I also plan to buy a bullet train ticket Xi'an-Beijing on that Wednesday afternoon in Shanghai. Possibly at an English window at a train station.

Ask your business associates or hotel to help arrange the train ticket. That's much better than spending time in line at the station on your free afternoon.

I could ask for help earlier in the week. And if it doesn't work out, go ahead and buy the ticket on Wednesday.

To me this looks like a very manageable itinerary with about the right amount of time to see the various sites you have selected. I'm not sure you'll be able to "explore Shanghai" fully in one afternoon. On the other hand, I would put your time towards what you have done-more in Beijing and Xi'an.

I do not see the Summer Palace on your list of Beijing sites. You might consider that for Wednesday after the Forbidden city, which you should be able to see by lunch time if you get a reasonably early start. Or, perhaps better, go to Beihai Park after the Forbidden City, as they are close to each other. Then spend Day 10 (Friday) at the Summer Palace and the Lama/Confucius Temples. In fact, the metro from the Summer Palace to Lama Temple involves only one change (Line 4 to Line 2) and takes ~40 mins (although a taxi also would work).

I like your suggestion of combining Beihai with the Forbidden City, and the Summer Palace with the Lama/Confucius Temples.
With respect to "exploring Shanghai", I did not find much to see that kindles my interest. I like to visit the Yuyuan Garden, but The Bund and the French Concession reminds me too much of London and Paris. Both of which I already have visited a gazillion times.

I think your itinerary is fine, with some day-to-day tweaks as suggested above. I would get that Xian-BJ ticket the day you arrive in Shanghai, after you check in to your hotel. If the hotel is willing for a reasonable surcharge like RMB 50 or so, have them go get it. Otherwise, have the concierge write down the particulars in Chinese, then give you directions to the nearest remote train ticketing office which is likely within 5-10 minutes' walk from the hotel. Take your passport with you to buy. You don't need to fool around with English windows, going to the station, etc.

When you get to Shanghai, call up to the Beijing hostel to confirm the dates their GW tour is going out for the actual days you'll be in BJ, that will help you craft your specific daily plan in BJ. Might as well reserve your place while on the phone, they'll probably be OK with actual payment once you get to BJ.

I was planning to signup online (see link).

That works, too.

Sounds like a plan, but the earlier you can procure the train ticket the better.

If you have a free evening, especially early in the week in Shanghai, try to walk along the Bund in the early evening. There are also cruise boats (I haven't done this, but a local came close to leading a group of us there during a recent visit) and a selection of rather expensive restaurants and bars in beautiful historic buildings on the Puxi side. Try to also go to one of the view places to enjoy the lights on a clear evening, ideally late day to sunset to night, so time your drink at the Park Hyatt of whatever carefully or plan to use your hotel's top-floor concierge lounge at a good time.

The "history museum" and elevators in the distinctive tall toy building on the Pudong side are open into the evening. You can also walk along the river on that side around the aquarium and Shangra-La (?) hotel, near Fashion Mall.

Some of the art galleries are open late-ish and I think the same is true for the little city museum in the basement on the corner of People's Park. The main Shanghai museum might have extended hours some nights. Your visit in April is before the annual free period when lines are impossibly long.

You can also see a lot of the French Concession and Xiandu (spelling???) at night. These are also good areas to find somewhat upscale restaurants.

I guess it depends on what my colleagues want to do in the evenings. Also, I am staying at the Galaxy hotel (near Donghua University) which is not next door to the Bund.