Proper Use of the Taxi Driver Tip
 

Of course, we all know that tipping is not part of Chinese culture. These are The Rules. However, we all also know that rules sometimes should be broken. Today I encountered one of those times. I had arrived at Beijing airport about 10:30 and had to make a beeline (with luggage in hand) straight for Guomao for a critical errand before going to register for my apartment in Dongzhimen, which had a prearranged meeting time. After the errand, waiting in front of Guomao Tower 1 for a taxi, I was #5 in line with few empty taxis coming round. This was noon. Two came so I was then #3 in line. Empty taxi comes up, Chinese woman #1 goes to him and starts to get in, he won't take her. Chinese woman #2 goes to him, he won't take her, then he points to me, Jiejie #3 and motions me to come over. I figure he's assuming by my luggage that he's about to get a fat fare to the airport. Not wanting to mislead him, I told him I was only going to Dongzhimen. He grinned and popped the trunk for the luggage and said yes, he'd take me. I didn't dare look at Chinese women #1 and #2. I wouldn't blame them for fuming, but I'm not about to turn down a lucky break! Could have been waiting there another half-hour and with luggage, I had no other logical transport options besides taxi...and a preset meeting time looming.

Get to my destination, fare is total RMB 16. I give him a 20 and tell him to keep the change, and thanks for choosing me as his passenger. He grinned again, gave me the thumbs-up sign, and went away a happy camper, as was I. Hopefully this tip will again encourage him to pick the next foreigner out of the waiting throng. :D

Taxi TIP@:-)

During rush hour carry a couple empty suitcases.
Foreigner+suitcases= airport run. No waiting.^

Interesting,

My experience with Beijing taxi drivers were mostly bad...

Treat them like saints (not necessarily by tipping), and your experiences will be better. Recently, when encountering drivers during rush hour that have no interested in picking up anyone, I ask them where they're headed; 1 in 4 times, they're going the same direction as me.

Beijing is the only city in China I have never had a problem with cabs.

I must have made some good karma somewhere. Today after finding myself with some groceries in the north Ritan park area and cabless and freezing cold in the wind, after 10 minutes finally came across an empty heading the opposite way, who turned around for me, took me to my apartment gate where the fare had just clicked to RMB 11. Gave him RMB 10 and was fishing in my wallet for another 5 (to take care of additional fare plus addl fuel surcharge), but he grinned and refused to take any more cash. I insisted he take the 5, but he shook his head and said 10 was enough.

Ha. Perhaps the rest of you just aren't as charming with the Beijing cabbies as me. :p :p :p

Poor foreigner, probably a refugee from US, where they live in tents on the streets and are gassed by the cops. Saw that on CCTV

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-s...00084&cid=1101 .

I am surprised.

Beijing taxi drivers IMO are impatient.

They forced me to alight before I reached my destination.

My experiences with shanghai and other lower tier cities are better than those in the capital.

I don't get it. I'm not sure that it has anything to do with tipping.

Does it make you feel better really? Imagine the situation is reversed. You're first or second in line at a cab station (and you tip well in the first place; let's just assume). Suddenly, a cab appears and rather than picking you up (as expected being the first in line), he picked a foreigner that's third in line. I don't imagine you would be happy. That's why there's a line. That's why you're waiting there.

It's more or less a kind of 'profiling' that happened. In my mind, it has nothing to do with "proper use of taxi driver tip" because he does not know how you will tip in advance.

(By the way, I have seen two young ladies throwing a tantrum at the cab service rep manning the line in Ft Lauderdale (cruise) because they were in a hurry, and wanted to cut in line. The cab were able to keep them in their place for a while (explaining that others are waiting) though they were able to get their way, much to the disgust of other people who witnessed the episode.). Not your situation, clearly, but something I just remembered.

I agree that if I was the first/second in line I would be miffed -- but taxis in BJ are incredibly fickle, and this unfortunately happens all the time. However, you quite rightly, don't "get it". This is about tipping to thank someone for service, not as so often sadly happens in the US, service personnel acting a certain way to maximise or increase their tip. The cabby's behaviour to jiejie was not motivated by a tip, but it was in turn rewarded by one. Isn't that how it should be in reality, rather an obligatory surcharge, as it is stateside?

tb

Hmm, clearly you don't "get it." You have a lot to learn about China, including the fact that "queues" are often more conceptual than actual. It's a dog-eat-dog world, especially trying to get a taxi, and if a break is thrown your way, you take it. I assure you the shoe has been on the other foot plenty of times, and I've been passed by in favor of the Chinese person waiting. That's just how things are here. And especially since the power shift in this Beijing taxi equation seems to have shifted over to the drivers during the last year. If the Chinese women passed over were of a mind to do so, they could have taken down his ID number from the dashboard display, or the license plate number, and complained to his company.

And yes, I felt better at the time getting into that cab, and I felt good when I got out of it too! I've got nothing to be ashamed of or apologize for, which is what you seem to be implying.

What would you have done--refused the taxi and demanded he take the first Chinese woman in line? Tell me true....

Queue Jumping, more of a sport than an offensive act.

上海世博會 expo2010 大陸人 成群 打尖 插隊不知廉恥 望鏡頭笑 令中國人蒙羞

If you become irritated by those that don't follow the queue, you could try this.

上地鐵遇港女 就地正法左佢

When we got off the train in Nanjing, we went to the taxi line which is under the station. There are two lanes with a median in between that taxis pull up beside, and the taxi clerk loads 3 taxis in each lane at a time, 6 taxis, then they pull away and 6 more pull up.

When we got to the front of the line the clerk waves us to go down the lane. The first taxi sees the luggage and waves his hand no to us. Same thing with the second and third.

So now we're are standing in the middle of the road with all these taxis going by. A taxi pulls up opens his trunk and looks at my hotel address. He starts loading our suitcases into his trunk but he has so much crap in it already there's no way both bags would fit. So we take the one out and start walking to another taxi. This guy is yelling at us.

After about 5 minutes of taxi roulette we find one with an empty trunk who knows how to get to the hotel. No problems on the ride over. I let him keep the few RMB change.

Relax. No need to get hostile. I already admitted that I didn't get it, especially in light of the misleading thread title. I've been to Hong Kong a number of times where people try to rush in to the subway stations before letting passengers out, so I'm guessing it's more or less the same. You could be right - maybe there's still a lot I need to know and learn about China.

Having said that, just because it's a "dog-eat-dog" world doesn't justify that it's right. It doesn't justify the behavior or that people should forget what common courtesy is. (i.e. like in the extreme case where a child is run over by a vehicle, and people just walk right by).

Also, I didn't 'imply' that that you have anything to be ashamed or apologize for. I asked explicitly. Certainly, you have nothing ashamed nor to apologized for (since it was the driver's decision that was questionable). But, it's certainly nothing to be thrilled at or write home about because you would be miffing all the same if you were in the other shoe.

Frankly, I have been in that situation before and looked to the other passengers to see if they were OK (but mostly there was a legitimate reason - they're waiting for other parties, too many people or luggage). In case where there is blatant line skipping (to my benefit), I actually point to the passengers to ensure that the driver sees that there are others ahead of me. I'm usually in no huge hurry. If he driver insisted, would I have refused? Probably not, but more often than not, I would wonder why the cab driver does what he did. Like I said, it's nothing to write home about.
I've done enough of international traveling (even where language is a barrier) to know I'd rather wait properly in a queue, then to skip ahead of the locals even though if the service provider assume we tip well as foreigner (which we do, but it is still beside the point).

It's conceivable (even if it seems unlikely in your mind) that the two women before you could have tipped okay too. Even if they don't tip as is the local customs, that doesn't mean they should be passed over by someone who does. The cab service provided you with good service, you should tip him properly. But, skipping other people to help you long before he knew how you were going to tip is not just good service, it's profiling of some sort.

Anyway, I'll leave it as is. It's just a genuine question to think about. No need to get worked up over it. I'm glad your trip works out OK and you made it to your meeting in time.

I'm not hostile, actually I'm amused at your reaction, as I'm sure some other readers of this thread are. What we've got here is clashing cultural norms. I'm not Chinese but I've had to adapt while living here, as a matter of survival. Of course (my) taxi-achievement strategies would be amended depending on what country I was in and what the norms are.

If you wish to come to China and "wait properly in a queue" then bring a good book (War and Peace?) because you may be waiting a long time while others shove you aside. Hong Kong behavior is completely civilized compared to the mainland.

The Chinese profile as a matter of course--as individuals, organizations, government, and culture--and have no problems being "politically incorrect" as it might be called in the USA. I've seen plenty of taxi drivers drive right past black Africans (some members of the diplomatic staffs assigned to Beijing) trying to hail a cab because they don't want to take them. Is it fair? No. Can you change this culture? No.

Again, I didn't "skip" over or around anybody and I didn't muscle anyone aside--the taxi driver was the one that beckoned. The first ladies ahead of me were already 20 feet away at the taxi door, while I was still waiting on the curb by the building. And I gave him full latitude to reconsider his decision by holding back some extra moments, and by telling him my destination, being very up front he wasn't going to get a huge distance fare. It's possible that he just didn't want to go in the direction that either of those two women were heading--Beijing traffic is beyond a nightmare and this happens regularly.

The idea that the two Chinese women in front of me would have tipped the driver is pretty farfetched. Chinese don't do that. As said before, drivers here don't expect tips and many will refuse or be baffled if you try. This driver didn't know I was going to let him keep the change until the ride was over. And I wouldn't be surprised if he was more tickled about me thanking him "for choosing me as his passenger" (in Mandarin) than with the extra four RMB.

I know what the taxi driver would have done if I had refused to get into his cab on the grounds of "it's not fair" to the other waitees--he would have driven off with nobody getting in. It's called saving face, an Asian thing you might be familiar with, and once he refused the first two women, there's next to no chance he would about-face and take one of them.

While I agree with you that right is right, and I will continue to do things like hold the elevator door open when someone is coming in instead of pushing the close button, get up from my seat when an old person needs a seat etc; I will also say that if you live in China or spend enough time there you will understand that common courtesy isn't as clear as day and night. In the west where there are many resources for the population (eg US), then it's easier to sit on the high horse and say things like common courtesy and wait in line.

I agree that the majority of the Chinese are pretty much crazy.

The shove you around, they push the close buttons, hog seats and what not.

However, I have seen really nice hearted Chinese who go beyond what was required by them.

Los Angeles is the number two tourist destination in the US for foreign travelers. Second biggest draw next to Disneyland...Venice Beach.
Those Americans are Crazy! :D

Helpful Driver
 

Having read all the horror stories about Beijing taxis, I dreaded giving instructions in my skeletal Mandarin that I wanted to go to Xiao Wang Fu restaurant in Ritan. The driver was unexpectedly helpful, and stopped four times to ask people near the park what entrance to use and where the restaurant was. Later I regretted giving him only a 10rmb tip, as the alternative was to be dumped at the wrong entrance of a large nearly unlighted park.

10RMB is a huge tip! I don't think we should import US tipping culture and behaviour into China (or any other country). There are other ways to live you know! As jiejie mentioned above for her journey -- the "thank you" probably meant more to the driver than the tip, and if one wants to tip, rounding to nearest ten is more than appropriate.

tb

Crazy isn't what I would use to describe, ill mannered in their attempt to simply not be lost in the crowd is how I would describe it.

But the population problem does cause levels of insanity that I do see in China, so I suppose crazy isn't so bad after all.

1. No, the Mainland is ages worse than HK, which is actually ok/good for the whole waiting in line/letting those get out first thing...

2. True. But spend more time (living/studying/working) in an emerging market like China and you'll quickly change your tune (at least in a case like this).

3. In China you'd be waiting a long long time for that cab. People (and this happened at the Sofitel in Beijing these last two days) will just jump in front of you in line. Are you standing at the corner hailing a cab? someone will just walk right in front of you, maybe 10 feet, 10 yards etc, and start hailing and guess what, they'll get the cab (especially critical at rush hour or in the cold/wet weather). So in response you start moving forward, and they do too (remember there could be multiple people hailing at this time doing the same thing). Next thing you know, its been 20 minutes and you've walked at least 100 yards. In my case at the Sofitel, I would be in the official taxi line. Cabs upon entering sort of have to loop around a fountain/statue, so some people (guests?) would literally get to the empty cab before it looped around the statue/fountain and try to open the door/beckon the cabbie even as the doormen would be telling the cab to come around. I one instance, the aggressor got the cab, in the other instance, the cab ignored the aggressor and went to the official line.

I don't tip as a foreigner and with my skin color, I don't think I've been preferred to locals (IME). I've been passed by empty cabs for locals standing elsewhere though - but that's life.

4. Probably not.

Problems are opportunistic
 

Funny you should mention the close button for elevator doors. I'd never ever seen that used, almost as a defensive (or offensive?) gesture, before my trip to China. The second someone would come in after me they'd rush for that button, despite others heading to the elevator. What's with that? I didn't give it much thought at the time.

I'm also curious about references to Chinese natives being less than friendly. The younger people in particular were so friendly and helpful that, at times, I wondered if I was being set up for a scam (tea ceremony or some such). If I looked even slightly puzzled in a subway station, someone came by and offered assistance. Returning from one trip (early morning expedition to see the flag raising ceremony) I didn't have coins, just paper currency, and the only working machine on that side of the station needed coins. A security officer kindly helped out, offering me a coin for my bill.

I think problems and unfriendly people while traveling are often opportunistic. If you expect them, they'll find you. A smile and a friendly tone, even when there are language issues, can go a long way. And stress is never, ever a good thing to display. Stress implies that you've got a tough problem that someone may not be able to help with, or for that matter won't want to deal with.

Mike, individual Chinese can behave completely differently when helping you figure something out on the street, vs scrambling for a scarce commodity like an empty taxi at rush hour. Jekyll and Hyde. And this would happen regardless of your smile, your stress level or lack thereof, etc. In cases where too many people all want a restricted resource, things can get ugly and your only recourse is sometimes to jump in there and duke it out. Visitors with financial resources can hire a private driver. (though the car will get stuck in the same traffic)

I was making a general case about needing assistance, not racing for the last cab in town. :D I don't think the Chinese have a monopoly on duking it out for scarce resources. I'd just read in so many places about people being scammed in this way or that, and in general to be suspicious of everybody, and I just didn't see that. But the elevator thing... pushing the "close door" button the second you get in, regardless of others waiting. What's with that? :confused:

I've clearly not been here long enough...but I've not witnessed this: it's probably my dashing good looks! :D

tb

You've never lived in New York, have you? :D Happens all the time.

tb, I think its your hair styling !.

On the elevator, I know a certain 12 year old, that is truly elevator door button fast with our apt. elevator.... So, it does start at a young age.

Probably right there...;)

tb

Close door buttons in China actually work. Here in US don't do much as there are set close times as prescibed by american disabilities act which essentially renders close door button useless.

They seem to work fine in MA -- perhaps it's a CA thing? I love close door buttons -- where they don't work is in the UK by and large. But judicious use is key.

tb

Elevators - it isn't they will close it on you, it's just if they see you coming no one will bother to stop the doors closing by pushing the open door button.

As for natives, younger folks tend to have better manners than older. But you also see a mix of things going on too. I've seen younger folks yell at elders, and others than give up their seats to older people. A mix of both. But I will be the first to tell you despite the general lack of manners, most of my local Chinese friends have good manners and are very kind. And some of the most warm people I have ever met come from China - so don't take my comments to China all as negative.

Could be , as age of elevator has affect on compliance.

Er, no, I was observing people stabbing at the "close door" button the second they got into the elevator. It seemed almost reflexive. I'd say it was most-prevalent among those middle-aged, always male, typically looked like businessmen. Seriously, there would be people heading towards an elevator I was in, in plain sight, and the guy would be punching the button to close the door. :eek:

I noticed different manners, not a lack of them. If I thought everything should be like it is back home, what would the point of travel be?

Many places I see, I think great, that was interesting, it's crossed off my list, now time to go see something else. Egypt was like that. Very glad I went, but no desire to go back. China? I want to go back! I want to see more. I want to spend more time in the crazy fake shopping areas. I want to try more adventurous food. I want to meet more people.

^China^

It is reflexive behavior, force of habit, and I do it, too, all the time even though I'm not a male businessman. Though usually I make sure nobody is near the elevator also wanting to hop on. Just so you know the technicals: Elevators when put into service, have a preprogrammed (and manufacturer-adjustable) lag time between when a floor button is pushed/requested, and when the door automatically closes and the car starts. In most Chinese building elevators I've been in, this lag time can be quite long, now that the subject has been opened, it seems longer than the presets of elevators in most other countries' that I've been in. It's extremely annoying to be waiting 15-20 extra seconds for a door to close when nobody is coming or going--it feels like 15-20 minutes! Pushing the "door close" button manually overrides the lag time on most elevator models, resulting in immediate door close and on your way. (Pushing the "door open" button also overrides the autolag, and I use that too when situation demands.) For this sort of specific behavior on elevator button impatience, I do think it's become unconscious habit in the majority of cases, with a minority of instances of purposely trying to close the elevator fast and go before another person hustling to try to make the car can get there.

Mike, these are my sentiments exactly. I went to Egypt in 2007. Glad I went, but won't ever go again, especially now. However, I will go back to China again, but maybe not for a few more years. I tend to alternate continents with my 2 vacation trips a year. Next year, South America and Europe. 2013, I'll be looking at an Asian trip.

Industry standard here is 3-6 seconds open to auto close. Considering that the CZ A380 flying domestic can board in 10 minutes and 5 years here = 1 year in China. They should be programmed for 1-3 seconds door close. If its 15-20 seconds they must be using bootleg components not real OTIS.

I assure you, that lag is a lot longer than 1-3 seconds. Even with genuine elevator OEM equipment.

And keep in mind that whatever your experience with OTIS--they only provides a subset of all elevators here due to their expense--Fujitsu, Kone, Schindler, and some other manufacturers are also ubiquitous. But all have the same issue. Regardless of manufacturer, "Industry standard" for presets will always be trumped by local code and practice, and directive of the elevator inspection/certification official, and by building ownership/management preferences. The hydraulic elevators are worse on delays than the high-speed electrics, as you might expect, but even the electrics/tractions lag more than you'd find in an equivalent model and vintage in office/hotel/public building complexes in western countries.

Next time you are in China, take some elevator rides in a wide variety of buildings and use a stopwatch or something with sweep second hand to time the lags. By the end of your stay in China, you'll be pushing emphatically on that "door close" button also.

Will do that. Might be difficult to block the alpha males from that close button without being offensive. Will borrow a KTV employee to distract attention in order to complete the study.:

When you stand in a Chinese hospital waiting for the elevator for 15 min and then there is a massive crowd of people, you can understand a bit more. Again, I don't excuse it but can see why they do.