Peter's not the only one who doesn't like it. I was dragged there 3 weeks ago and it was still overpriced and still dreadful. If you must go to a Xiaowangfu, the one inside the north gate of Ritan park is better. XWF = Best duck in Beijing? Oh moondog, please no, just say it ain't so....

Chinese food is one of those things that gets cheaper the more people you have. For a good meal by myself or with another person, (and I mean a real meal in an average decent Chinese place--not an office building or student canteen or a really grotty greasy spoon diner), I generally spend about RMB 50-60 + drink cost. With 6-8 people and a dish per person, usually fish-less only about RMB 25-30 + drink cost. Add more if a nice fish is ordered, or a duck. (I don't usually eat duck except at duck specialty restaurants.)

Hmm. I find myself at a loss for a words. I've had a ducks from pretty much everywhere in town (at least the famous places), and I continue to prefer XWF. In situations like this, it's probably best to declare a stale mate.

I think Xiao Wang's duck is a little different from most of the "specialty duck houses," so that may account for the difference of opinion.

And I've also thought the food at their Ritan Park location was a little better than at another location I've been too, so perhaps that factors into the opinion.

Depends on where your hotel/accomodation is.

If you will not be in the Guomao/CBD downtown area, things should be more reasonably priced.

Having said that, I'd budget about 300RMB per day, roughly USD$45

Btw, all of the fancy/chain/luxury hotels in Beijing, such as Sheraton, the Westin, Shangri-La, Ritz-Carlton, St. Regis, Peninsula, Inter-continental, Sofitel etc, list their prices specifically to match the level of affordability of a wealthy business traveller.

...$36 dollars for a buffet breakfast for one
...$15 dollars for a bottle of Voss water....
...$31 dollars for 60 mins of Internet at Biz Centre....
- just as a reference -

As a relatively frequent consumer of the services listed (at the hotels you mentioned), your rates are a bit high across the board.

breakfast (not brunch): ~y125
fancy bottle of water: maybe y80
60 minutes of internet: highest I've ever seen is y150, y80 is more typical (Kerry, St. Regis, China World)

I LOVE China World buffet!!!
Price quoted from the Westin.
Plus don't forget the mysterious 15% surcharges/taxes/tips that go straight to the hotels pockets.

Westin Financial St.
Wireless High Speed Internet Access in All Guest Rooms (Complimentary)
Wireless High Speed Internet Access in Public Areas (Complimentary)
Wireless High Speed Internet Access in Business Center (Complimentary)

Westin Chaoyang
Wireless High Speed Internet Access in All Guest Rooms CNY 105 per day
High Speed Internet Access CNY 105 per day
Wireless High Speed Internet Access in Club Lounge (Complimentary)
Wireless High Speed Internet Access in Public Areas

$31 = y210. I suppose I could theoretically imagine that certain hotels would try to charge that for 60 minutes on a public computer, I've never seen that in practice.

ETA: I feel compelled to state explicitly the point I'm trying to make. That is, I don't find 5-star hotels in BJ to be excessively expensive, and a large percentage of the local market they target is far from rich. Take bars like Centro or Xiu, for example. Sure the drinks cost $12 a pop, but there are always specials on offer that compete with non hotel options. Management is smart of to realize that if it prices itself out of the market, those places wouldn't be popular. The same goes for brunches. Full price is usually a decent value in my book (~y400 for a great spread), but there are specials in the brunch department that bring the price down into the 150-200 range, which is awesome (current Renaissance Fulicheng promo).

That's actually exactly how much they charge at the business centre.

Let's return to the original inquirty. And if amerikajin777 is looking for the price of a nice dinner in Beijing, surely moondog would agree that the cheapest you can possibly find would still be around 200rmb, except for at Shangri-La Traders next to China World Hotel, they have a special 68rmb dinner deal with dim sum kind of buffet, which amounts to about $10. But other than that, $20 can surely buy you many value meals at KFC or McDonlad's, but at a "nice" place, $20 gets you probably a salad, soup and a main course excluding drinks, dessert or surcharges. A local beer is typically 10~20RMB, so you might just make it with exactly 20 dollars.

My point is that Beijing is not a city with cheap cost of living, especially compared to other non-HK non-Shanghai cities. There are genuinely nice places in Beijing where you can get a nice dinner with drinks and desserts with just under $20, just as I trust there would be in other cities around Beijing, but those aren't the places that a non-beijinger visiting with only a few night's stops would be able to find and trust.

And in my opinion, that is true for most visitors to any unfimiliar foreign big cities.

Therefore I would err on the safe side in terms of budgeting. Not to be prepared to be ripped off, but to recognise that, most foreign visitors in a new city would probably not be able to find the best accomodation/fine-dining/bar/shopping venues that are honstlly local-priced, trust-worthy, English-speaking, and recognisable by taxi drivers. Probably not on the first visit anyway.

So yes, even though it might seem like a good deal compared to, say, HK or Sinagpore or LA, a 400RMB hotel brunch that is almsot 3x more than what you are prepared to spend on a fine dinner+beer is still probably a lot higher than what you'd expect the cost of living would be in Beijing.

Once again, don't assume things will be "cheap" like they are in other Chinese cities or in say, Bangkok. When you budget, don't assume Beijing would be liek a city in Thailand, and don't count on prices that would be roughly cheaper than in Tokyo, then, you'd be fine.

^_^

For a great budget dinner head to one of the many Tairyo Teppanyaki restaurants. All you can eat and all the beer and sake you can drink for about US$20.

I was going to recommend some sort of all-you-can-eat Japanese. I have fond memories of going to the Hiazhixins (forget the Japanese name 海之星) in SH in the late 90s with large groups followed by go karting. Now, my sushi standards are higher than most of these places (Japanese gf with a "fancy mouth"), but tepanyaki is a different story.

Speaking of Japanese food in BJ, I've heard that the toro and crab place (name is slipping my mind) has gone down hill. Yotosuba is great, one of the very few restaurants in BJ where I would get a reservation:

http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijin...e/has/yotsuba/

If that's over budget, Shoto Muni in Blue Castle is nothing special/unique, but their sushi is surprisingly good.... much, much better than other restaurants that look just like it from the outside.

Switching gears, it just occurred to me that the beijinger's 2010 restaurant awards are out:

http://www.thebeijinger.com/blog/201...-Experts-Picks

In the past, I've taken issue with some of their picks (e.g. Annie's always won "Best Italian"; a clear sign that many voters lack proper taste buds), but the list itself can serve as a useful guide. And, I always try out the restaurant of the year, so I will surely visit Maison Boulud on my next trip.

Agreed on Shota Muni. Pretty solid stuff. They have branches (besides Blue Castle in CBD - in Beijing, I believe as well as in Vancouver - huh?).

Had brunch this afternoon at the Renaissance Beijing Capital Hotel in Fulicheng. Given where my friends live, I was not thrilled with the location but its well appointed. Great service. We had a vegetarian amongst us and the staff went out of their way to help her out. A pretty solid spread. I believe its 288rmb/pp with wine and beer, 368rmb/pp with champagne. The deal is that it's two for one.

That deal sounds similar to the Fulicheng Renaissance, which I enjoyed quite a bit.... focussed more around cooking stations that other buffets.

Thanks for the heads up on the awards being out! Bei looks interesting.

That's exactly the one I was talking about. I was at the lounge in T3 and must have typed in Airport instead of Hotel (ie. the one in Fulicheng, where I stayed).

Edits made to my previous post...