Question for the TSA & LEOs on the Board
 

So my friend flew out of this mid sized Northern California city last month...It's one of these "Oh XXXXXX, it's so dead there no one ever really goes there anymore cities" All I can say is between BFL and MCE.

Anyways he was catching the last flight out of there to Vegas and as he went through the security screening process they searched his bag and came across six miniature bottles of booze (This met the 3.3 restriction and was in a clear plastic bag) Unfortunately for my friend who was underage however obtained it legally while in Europe the previous day and had even the receipt of the purchase in Europe which sucks for him though. He texted me as the TSA was searching through his bag and I told him to immediately call or ask for the LEOs if they were illegally detaining him after the security screening.

So he waited 35 minutes before the LEOs actually showed up at the security checkpoint and he waved them over, apparently the LEOs were not called over for that reason so they asked the TSA what was up and they smugly acted like they made the biggest bust ever according to my friend, he also said the TSA screener immediately said "alcohol" as the bag was going through the x-ray machine.

After another 20 minute wait with the LEOs who let him go after my friend made the valid argument that the TSA had no authority to detain him because only the LEOs are allowed to deal with federal enforcement regarding possession of alcohol in a minor not the tub stacking ...*****(his words).

After the TSA took his picture of him, the BP and Drivers License they sent him on his way and he ultimately missed the flight and as he was exiting the security area he saw the TSA people go "oh he missed his flight...just perfect" then the other guy laughed...this is UNPROFESSIONAL and I told him to contact his local congressman and whine about how TSA is abusing their so called power.


What was the correct protocol in this situation? He wanted to know.

Airport LEOs (state or local) don't enforce federal liquor laws as there are no such things. The only federal laws in that area are licensing (selling of) and the quantity you can bring into the country, and that's done by the BATF and CBP respectively, not local LEOs.

If the person is under 21 and in possession of alcohol in the USA then it's a crime. It's a BS crime to be sure (and I'm glad the LEOs let this one go) but technically it's a crime. The TSA had a chance to exercise some discretion but technically they were in their rights to call the LEOs in on this. Like I said, it's BS but it's technically a crime.

The question remains - how did the passenger act? If he had an attitude to them then there's no wonder they used the littlest thing to jam him up. If he was just flying as normal and undergoing the process then this was definitely them being hardons.

It's good to take stands and not be pushed around, but know your rights, the law and make sure you're not breaking it, because all you've then done is ensure that you get pinched for it.

While it is no wonder, it is still unprofessional. I've learned over the years that sometimes you just have to let things roll off your back. usa18dca, how old is your friend? How was it established by the TSO's that he was a minor? Did he volunteer the info? The TSA took his picture and photocopied his DL and BP? Cee, OOTPYLTH, is this a normal practice?

I would do the following:

1) this was an illegal detention, and your friend needs to consult an attorney

2) the attorney should file a subpoena to seize the tapes TODAY before they are lost or over-written

I could easily just say 'contact the Airport Director's office and FSD', but I think this TSA crew needs a lesson. The catch here will be whether or not your friend can afford an attorney.

This is pretty serious - and he should have demanded the GSC immediately.

How was it an illegal detention? In what manner?

I'm not making any moral judgment, just stating the obvious reality - if anyone wants to buck the man, they'd better be in the right. :)

The TSA held the person there without any legal basis or right to do so - unless he was free to pass the checkpoint or leave the checkpoint, being held was a detention and it was illegal.

I forget the main reason why we photocopy boarding passes and driving licenses; but that's more a question for the leads and supervisors; haven't had it happen in a while when I'm at work. Usually when a LEO's in called they want them for their records.

It's not something that I have ever seen/heard of being done. Nor have I ever tried to bust a minor for carrying alcohol with them. Sounds like the screeners at the small airport were really bored that day.

Agree. If your in the right, and have your ducks in a row, buck away. It sounds like this guy did not. My point was as a LEO or security guard or TSO you can expect to receive a certain amount of flack. A professional understands that the person is angry at what they represent and not them per se and does not take it personally. I'll admit it took me a few years to figure that out. As a background I have been a LEO for 20 years. I have worked the street, prison, and I am currently a Fed.

So they are making copies for the responding LEO? In this case the LEO's did not take any action, I wonder why the documents were copied in this incident?

Nothing to do with the LEOs, if the LEOs want the information they'll demand it themselves. The TSA has 'incident reports' they are supposed to fill out, although the why and how are apparently SSI. Seems obvious to me that in this incident it was pure retaliation and intimidation, something many TSOs are notorious for.

Unprofessional ? Of course, no surprise there either, and not the first time FAT has featured in this forum.

This detail seems to have been missed by the responders here, and I think it makes a difference in the story. Maybe the OP can confirm this because it's a little fuzzy. Did the TSA tell the young man to wait for the LEO's to show up or did he wait there on his own? If they did tell him to wait, wouldn't THAT be unlawful detaining since they never actually called the LEO's?

It probably has something to do with the incident report. We don't have photocopiers readily accessible at my airport, so copying ID and BP is something I don't do. For an incident report, I just take down the info by hand and transfer it into the report. I guess it would be easier if I could just photocopy it.

They did have cause, as BS as it was. A violation of law was discovered while performing an administrative search. They can detain the person while LEOs respond and then turn over the evidence to the responding LEOs. The precedent is quite clear.

I'm going to call BS on this one. It is obvious that the OP is referring to FAT, yes. They are normally just about the most laid-back, easiest-to-deal-with group I see in dozens of screenings around the world each year. I suspect the individual in the op may have contributed to his problems with attitude - reference the "tub-stacking ***" remark. I agree with lawdawg. This was a pretty minor problem that escalated for reasons we do not know.

News to me! TSA can detain? (I don't see this as any different from claiming TSA can arrest.) I don't know how they could even prevent uncleared entry into the "sterile" area. Always thought the best TSA could do was track such entrants for LEO's to arrest.
TSO's can "Detain while LEOs respond?" Your basis for this claim is?

A violation of the law which was completely outside their jurisdiction as well as the local police. They had no cause to detain - and quite frankly, let's not get away from the point that they cannot detain anyone anyway. If they used any force or coercion to keep the person from leaving the checkpoint, they are guilty of a crime - kidnapping or unlawful confinement come to mind.

How did they know he was underage? They'd have to know he was 20 or under in order to be able to know they had a violation of the law (unless I missed it).

They likely knew his age by looking at his DL.

Don't know how, but the OP stated it and I took them at their word.

http://vlex.com/vid/20254460

If the passenger is "not free to leave," then what is he other than detained?

I'm guessing the kid wasn't actually detained by anyone from the TSA. All they did was refuse to clear him to the sterile area and take their sweet time summoning the LEOs. The kid probably could have exited the checkpoint streetside rather than sit around waiting for LEOs, but he didn't.

It's not something a TSO would do, at least at the airports where I've worked. Perhaps a supe or LEO, but I'm not privy to their protocols.

It's unclear from the original post whether the PAX or TSA called for a LEO, so I'll withhold comment on the rest, except to ask: what eventually happened to the liquor?

BTW, any time we see liquids in a bag, we're supposed to call a bag search, so the TSOs were following proper procedure in that regard.

There's nothing in the SOP that requires us to report minors in possession of alcohol, however, so that's kind of a gray area! Would make for an interesting court case ...

I expect we'll see a ruling eventually that will define what the TSA can and cannot do when it discovers contraband that clearly isn't a threat to aviation safety.

I read this case before, but what authority does the TSA posses to physically prevent someone from taking their items and leaving? If the police are not yet there, and someone picks up their bags and chooses to leave the checkpoint, the TSA does not have the right to physically block or touch the person, as they have no police authority.

Therefore, if you tried to leave and a screener grabbed you, then you could have that screener charged with assault and battery, no?

As bocastephen has alluded, the holding of this case had nothing to do with whether screeners could physically detain passengers. Just another criminal seeking to supress evidence of a search he claims was unreasonable because he said he wanted to terminate the search. The screeners told the criminal he couldn't leave - they didn't forcibly restrain him.

Do you have a citation where the holding concerned detention by screeners?

A ruling by whom ? Several "incidental" possession cases have gone before various courts. I don't have the running count, but almost always the courts have upheld the discovery whether or not the defense has claimed the poisoned fruit doctrine. I do not believe any has been escalated to the SCOTUS though, which would be the definitive ruling. Not likely to be a favorable one to those of us who think the TSA has no business fishing at checkpoints.

This is where it really crosses the line for me. That is totally unprofessional and I would not have walked out of there w/o talking to the duty manager for the TSA AND the airport. They need to stay professional and at times it can be tough (anyone who deals with the public can testify to that point) but laughing at the guy for missing his flight is wrong and makes the TSA look like HS dropout bullies. :td:

TSA is at fault for general incompetency for not calling the airport police any sooner. Plus, they should be responsible for his airfare to Vegas at the next available flight out at their expense. It shouldn't be their issue what he carries as long as it's legally allowed on the plane and not enforce the laws. Someone needs to tell the TSA that they're not cops.

Not entirely, he did go through airport security but at no time was he under any sort of detainment order. If he threw his hands up and said "forget it" and left, he's legally free to do so, they can try and stop him but he walks towards the exit, their ability to do anything ends there. Police can do something but that's another story.

Plus, police can detain a suspect for up to 48hrs before pressing charges. Even though the TSA was wrong, the LEOs could have detained him for that period of time legally.

Maybe I missed this in an earlier discussion - but can you cite this? Either someone is under arrest or free to go. One or the other. If you're under arrest, you must be charged or let go.

Under what statute can the police hold someone for 48hrs without charging them? Is this is a state statute?

Probably. We are not to physically try to stop a passenger from doing anything. In this case (most likely), if he were to have grabbed his stuff and headed out, a breach would have been called.

Yep. It would be up to the LEO's after that.

If he headed out of the airport and never went into the "sterile" area, what would have been breached?

He was already in the sterile area.

My "friend" is 20, and I of course used the word "friend" very loosely as to say it didn't happen to the OP but it did so if someone wants to call BS on my account of the events transpiring to this...You insult me greatly and by the way I am a Deaf individual and I was told to wait for the LEOs and I kept demanding THAT the LEOs show up...Sure I could have went to my Gate I know that the TSA does not have the ability to stop me after I cleared security screening but they held my bag to "keep me there".

No one said FAT but good guess!

They told my friend to wait for a while then he saw the LEOs and he walked over to them...the TSA folks seemed a little jumpy about it and even the LEOs sided with him and did not charge him with anything nor a municipal citation. Hewas not even drinking he just "forgot" that he had the miniatures he got from Europe at the time, the LEOs were surprised he even called them over...he atleast told them he was being honest about this whole situation unlike the TSA.

He's in the industry so of course we all have a damn attitude problem with the TSA however he kept his cool and was very friendly...think about it if he really had an nasty attitude the LEOs probably would not have cooperated at all.
FAT is indeed the most laid back, easiest to deal with group...just not that shift that night...most of them were rude.

Actually...Depends on how you define it...He cleared the XRAY...a bag check was called and they held the bag to detain him for a lengthy period of time before an actual LEO showed up to help "expedite" the process...LEOs sided with the kid and didn't charge him but it's the TSA in this case...He's afraid they will put him on some kind of list or something that could affect future employment in the industry or whatsoever.

Okay, I misunderstood. I thought that he had not made it in.


BTW, where does the sterile area begin? Entrance to the security checkpoint, the exit, the WTMD, some other point?

Once you physically enter the WTMD/your bags physcially enter the xray.

http://www.abanet.org/publiced/pract...d_charges.html

I can't believe you really don't know this. What do you think they do with criminals that they arrest overnight? They don't always see a judge at 3am. Some do in the larger jurisdictions. The person being arrested needs to be suspected of a crime which would assume a crime was committed.

They are under arrest but charges are not instantly filed the second handcuffs go on as charges are filed by the DA based on police recommendations. The DA and Judges review the cases and if the evidence warrants then formal charges, bail and court dates are established.

If my statement you quoted wasn't clear, I apologize but my point was that the TSA cannot detain people, police can but it requires that a crime is committed and some idea that the person arrested is the offender, neither of which occured with this guy but my statement was in a general sense.

gotcha

the guy/gal checking IDs wouldn't know that the OP had booze, and the the the guy/gal doing the xray wouldn't know that the OP was under, unless its the same person

Thanks, well aware of this and the case law it summarizes. However, IMHO, this ruling was always focused to ensure conviction in the case at hand. It certainly can't be read to heretofore and henceforth give TSO's the power to detain/ prevent intending criminals (oops, I mean pax) from leaving the check-point, particularly if they choose to head back to the non-sterile area.. The practical aspects of how TSO's would/could cause an intending pax to not be free to leave, would seem to be insurmountable, unless TSO's are given LEO authority.

I'm slightly confused. If entering the WTMD and putting your bags in the xray puts you into the sterile area, then either the TSA allows breaches as part of regular procedure (uncleared people in the sterile area), or everyone past the sterile area is already cleared, so no breach would occur by taking your bags and leaving.

The third possibility is that a breach does not occur so long as a TSO observes the passenger and bags. I have been allowed to take my bags (with forbidden object) from the sterile area to the checkin area. Was that a breach, or did the fact that I was being watched by a TSO make it ok?

Clearly uncleared people & bags can start past the checkpoint in the sterile area and leave. Does the fact that someone leaves without the TSA's blessing make it a breach?